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Jimtozier
Member Username: Jimtozier
Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2009
| Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 10:15 am: |
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I'm just learning the IPA... and was wondering if these a good online resource for seeing the IPA notation for Irish words? If not online, is there a good Irish-English dictionary that includes IPA notations? Jim Tozier www.jimtozier.com
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 105 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 11:05 am: |
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One resource, not specifically Irish, is SIL. They have IPA fonts, and if your computer is not set up, you'll need to do that to see them. A good test is to go to the first Wikipedia page below and see if they appear on your screen in the phonetic transcriptions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_orthography http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipa http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&cat_id=FontDownloadsIPA http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ipa.htm |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3188 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 01:33 pm: |
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On Wikipedia you'll find only phonological transcriptions, not phonetic ones. quote:If not online, is there a good Irish-English dictionary that includes IPA notations? My own dictionary (it is Irish-French but you may use it anyway for pronunciation even if you don't know French) has a phonetic transcription for every word it contains. As far as I know it's the only Irish modern dictionary that uses a precise IPA transcription. There are two other pocket dictionaries that use a phonological transcription, but then you need to know how every phoneme is realised (and it isn't fully explained in the dictionary itself). I can give you a transcription of other words that you wouldn't find in my dictionary too, if you like. You can buy it there : http://www.coop-breizh.fr/lire-3/livres-3/autres-langues-333/dico-poche-fran-ais -irlandais-2033/zoom-fr.htm and on several other websites. Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Mbm
Member Username: Mbm
Post Number: 256 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 04:39 am: |
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One dictionary that contains pronunciation is the famous Foclóir Póca. But, as Lughaidh says, the transcriptions are phonological rather than phonetic, which basically means they are only approximate. It uses its own, IPA-inspired system that leaves out some details (it doesn't indicate lip rounding, for example) and uses its own symbols in some cases (it has /g'/ instead of [gʲ] and so on). Mo bhlag sa seanchló Gaelach: www.cainteoir.com
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3191 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 10:48 am: |
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quote:which basically means they are only approximate. And artificial and sometimes wrong... Anyway :-) Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 110 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 12:23 pm: |
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A Lughaidh, The first rule developed by an Baoilleach was: Níl aon riail fuaime le fáil inti nach riail bheo i gcanúint éigin de chuid na Gaeilge í. I know you say that he formulates situations which may not coincide with any particular dialect (so a cross dialectical approach), but do you have one that is wrong? I know your opinion of the Foclóir Poca, but this is a curious statement to me. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3192 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 03:19 pm: |
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Tha statement that all "oi" are pronounced /o/ and that all "io" are pronounced /i/ is a curious statement to me... Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Curiousfinn
Member Username: Curiousfinn
Post Number: 306 Registered: 08-2008
| Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 06:01 pm: |
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Tha statement that all "oi" are pronounced /o/ and that all "io" are pronounced /i/ is a curious statement to me... I have a curious question regarding that: Is there any other rule to those than knowing them by heart? Or do the surrounding characters give hints? Tine, siúil liom!
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3196 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 06:05 pm: |
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As far as I know you have to learn them by heart. There are kinda rules but there are exceptions and sometimes you can use 2 pronunciations for one word... Well, English is full of things like that too (much more than Irish), and people manage to learn it anyway... Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Curiousfinn
Member Username: Curiousfinn
Post Number: 307 Registered: 08-2008
| Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 05:15 pm: |
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Well, even Finnish, which would seem to be one of the most straightforwardly spelled/pronounced languages, there are exceptions, with rough rules and their exceptions. Some of which I never came to think about very deeply, before I started learning Irish. Tine, siúil liom!
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 752 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 01:42 pm: |
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A Fhinn, I find that the rule that io is /i/ before dentals (i.e. /d/, /t/, /l/, /r/, /s/--the same list of sounds that don't mutate after the article), /u/ before velars (i.e. /g/, /k/), and /o/ elsewhere works pretty well, at least for Munster. oi is more problematic. There seems to be little to predict when it represents /o/ and when it is /i/ or /e/. |
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Róman_anonymous (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 03:22 pm: |
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quote:A Fhinn, I find that the rule that io is /i/ before dentals (i.e. /d/, /t/, /l/, /r/, /s/--the same list of sounds that don't mutate after the article), /u/ before velars (i.e. /g/, /k/), and /o/ elsewhere works pretty well, at least for Munster. That cannot be accurate. Think of words like "giolla", "lionn", "fiolar" where [u] is pronounced |
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