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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (September-October) » Archive through September 08, 2009 » Pronunciation of aimsir (weather) « Previous Next »

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Linda_kathleen
Member
Username: Linda_kathleen

Post Number: 85
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 12:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Could I get your input as to how aimsir is pronounced in various areas? My Foclóir Póca says am's'ər', ie, beginning with a short a. But I've come across many an eye-m's'ər' (long English i) and a:m's'ər' (long Irish a). Never short a. 'Course, I've yet to roam beyond the realm of books and the internet, so my personal experience means nothing.

Please be sure to say which of the main 3 dialects you're writing about. Thanks in advance.

I am a rank beginner. And I mean the rankest of the rank. Please be kind.

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3173
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 01:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The a is short in Ulster.
/aim's'@r/ is Munster
/a:m's'@r'/ is Connemara
/am's'@r'/ is Ulster

By the way, the pronunciation indicated in the Foclóir Póca is a "middle" artificial one. For many words, it doesn't correspond to any dialectal pronunciation but rather a blend of several dialects or a "theorical" pronunciation based on the spelling. Personally I don't agree with that, to me a real pronunciation is always better. But anyway.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Linda_kathleen
Member
Username: Linda_kathleen

Post Number: 86
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 04:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks, a Lughaidh. I put aimsir, aimsire through the synthesizer at abair.ie, and here's what I got. Would you call that an Ulster short 'a'? I'm asking because it doesn't really match the short 'a' on your own site.

If it is, could you possibly post a recording of how aimsir would be pronounced IF it was spelled with an Ulster 'a' fada, so that I can get a better sense of the difference between the two? (I can't do it myself because the link on your site is broken.)

PS: Hope I've done the sharing of the box.net link correctly. It's the first time I've ever uploaded something.

I am a rank beginner. And I mean the rankest of the rank. Please be kind.

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Peter
Member
Username: Peter

Post Number: 610
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 04:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi there,

The pronunciation given by de Bhaldraithe for Cois Fhairrge (South Connemara) is æ:mʃir'. This is standard Connemara (e.g. also as æ:mʃǝr' in Ó Curnáin's works). Ó Murchú says Inis Oírr has aimʃǝr' unlike the other two of the Aran islands, and this is also said to be occasionally heard from Cois Fhairrge speakers. Hope it helps.

'Na trí rud is deacra a thoghadh – bean, speal agus rásúr'

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3174
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 05:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Thanks, a Lughaidh. I put aimsir, aimsire through the synthesizer at abair.ie, and here's what I got. Would you call that an Ulster short 'a'? I'm asking because it doesn't really match the short 'a' on your own site.



Sounds may change, depending on the following or preceding sound and on many things, and every word may be pronounced in different ways, even by the same person... There's more than one Ulster short a, but describing all variations would take much time. Have a look at books such as The Irish of Cois Fhairrge, you'll have a sample of the phonemes of an Irish dialect and all their "members" ie. variations in context...

quote:

If it is, could you possibly post a recording of how aimsir would be pronounced IF it was spelled with an Ulster 'a' fada, so that I can get a better sense of the difference between the two? (I can't do it myself because the link on your site is broken.)



There's more than one "Ulster long a" - on my site I gave a Northwestern one, ie. a sound between "a" and "ay", but in southwestern Donegal or in the Gaeltacht Láir it'd be more like [a:] etc. Anyway I don't think people would use a long a in Ulster in that word.

quote:

PS: Hope I've done the sharing of the box.net link correctly. It's the first time I've ever uploaded something.



Aye, it works.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Seánw
Member
Username: Seánw

Post Number: 76
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 05:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ulster long a is like the a in cat or hat /æ/. The short a varies a bit from front to back of the mouth depending on the nearby consonant(s) and/or the speaker. I would equate it closely with the a sound like spa. I've even heard some people pronounce the short a just like the long one (further up front).

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3176
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 06:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

I've even heard some people pronounce the short a just like the long one (further up front).



Yes, in certain words. Ó Baoill gives a short list in An Teanga Bheo.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/



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