Hi again...

This question will reveal my ignorance of Catholicism as well as Irish.

An Foclóir Beag online tells me that turas is a m1 noun, the plural of which is turais. The plural shows up all over the place, mostly as 'journeys'.

Yet Turas na Croise is listed in my Foclóir Póca and on Focail.ie (and everywhere else on the internet) as 'Stations of the Cross'. Couldn't get a single hit on Turais na Croise.

Na is the plural of the definite article an and Croise is the genitive singular of the f2 noun cros, right? Together they make 'of the Cross'? So, why is the singular noun turas in Turas na Croise translated everywhere as 'Stations'? Or, to put it the other way 'round, why isn't 'Stations of the Cross' written as Turais na Croise?

Because it is a singular journey, with fourteen points at which one stops and thinks.

The Irish name emphasises the journey, the English name the stations.

Compare
Latin: Via Crucis
German: Kreuzweg

Indeed, it is sometimes called "The Way of the Cross" in English.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15569a.htm

Well, there you go. Put it all down to my ignorance of Catholicism.

This all began with a Catholic friend who received a religious 'postcard,' for lack of a better word, and asked me to look up the line Turas na Croise which appeared at the top. I found turas, told her it meant 'journey', and in the course of checking Croise, came across the 'Stations of the Cross' translation. Having only the vaguest familiarity with that term, as Christ's stops along the route to his crucifixion, I asked her for more information. She was most adamant that the Stations were not the stops, but the journeys from one point on the route to the next, each journey including its endpoint. Sounded to me like 'legs of a journey', rather than 'journeys', but she insisted that, whether 'legs' or 'journeys', we were speaking of a plural. (If I'd remembered 'The Way of the Cross' at that point, all of this could have been avoided, but frankly, I was doing well just making the connection between 'Stations of the Cross' and the crucifixion.) Anyway, I promised I'd ask the experts.

Moral of the story. I should have asked for a second opinion on the Catholicism, instead of the Irish. If it had involved a subject on which I felt more confident, I would simply have explained that one language/culture's 'journeys' can be another's 'journey', without error on either side. Thanks, a Aonghuis.

If this has in anyway piqued your interest in Irish Catholicism and stations(!), you might like to know that in some areas of the country there is a practice where the neighbours congregate in a house and the priest comes to say mass. Then everyone has tea or beer or whiskey or whatever. The practice of hosting such a mass in your house is called holding a "station". The area is divided up into station districts and the privilege (hassle!) goes from one house to another. There might be a couple of masses each year so you would probably be hit for a station every six or seven years. Conveniently, this is also an appropriate interval for giving the place a lick of paint. They do this in North Kerry and my mother-in-law would never let the side down!

Does anyone know what the Irish would be for this type of station? Does it have any relation to the stations of the cross?

I've heard it called stáisiún.

This is - clearly from the etymology, a stop.

I don't think it has anything to do with the stations of the cross.

Breis eolais anseo:

http://www.corkandross.org/html/sacraments/eucharist/station_masses.jsp

Nós ó aimsir na Péindlíthe atá ann.

There is a distinction here in the Latin which may be translated variously in Irish or English. Via is "way," as Aonghus has said, and the Way of the Cross is retracing the steps [path, road, journey] of Jesus in His sufferings and crucifixion through contemplation. Statio referred primarily to the Lenten fasts and the particular church that Mass was celebrated in Rome. The Pope and his ministers would meet at a particular church and start a litany. They would then process to the "station" church and begin Mass with a Collect (the collected prayer of the faithful). (Nota bene, there are some Masses in the traditional rite that retain this ancient form.) This eventually became the church for that particular day's Mass, and as you can see in Irish, a particular congregation point (as even with the Stations of the Cross.) My Irish missal from the 50s has turas. Mar shampla, "Turas go Teampoll Pheadair" agus "Turas go Cill Sailbheastair agus Mártain". The Pope and some faithful still do these stations, but not with, shall we say, the same gusto.

Here is a link from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14268a.htm

Here is the Irish text from my missal (pre standard):

Turais (Stationes)

Roimh an gcéad Aifreann féin san leabhar seo (an chéad domhnach den Aidbheint) léightear: Turas go Teampoll Mhuire mór (Statio ad Sanctam Mariam majorem). Siod é an bun-ughdar a bhí leis na Turais sin:

San Róimh anallód, laethe áithride nó trátha áithride den bhliain, do chruinnigheadh Críostaidhthe na Cathrach ar maidin go haon láthair ag Teampoll a bhíodh ceaptha roimhré. Thigeadh an Pápa chun an Teampuill sin agus an chléir ghá thionnlacan. Cantaí an tAifreann, agus ghníodh an Pápa an tseanmóir. Ba é an Pápa Gréagóir Mór (590-604) is mó a chuir dlúthas agus forás leis na Turais sin. Glac mhaith de na Seanmóirí a rinne sé le linn na dTuras gcéadna, táid ar fagháil i gcómhnuidhe.

Tá 86 lá san mbliain a bhfuil Turas ceaptha dóibh san leabhar Aifrinn, agus níl ach 43 cinn de Theampuill Turais (ecclesiae stationales) ann. Is amhlaidh do bhíodh an Turas ag cuid de na Prímhtheampuill (Teampoll Eoin in Laterano, Teampoll Pheadair, Teampoll Phóil, agus tuilleadh díobh) níos mó ná aon lá amháin. Is cinnte gur fhág na Teampuill Turais a rian ar théacs an Aifrinn a léightí ionnta lá an Turais, m.sh. an Ortha agus an Ceacht a léightear Domhnach Secsagesima.

Linda,

...friend who received a religious 'postcard,' for lack of a better word..

By any way, you don't happen to mean the tract?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tract_%28literature%29

I became almost too familiar with these when I got to know an Adventist couple some 8 years ago.

Hi, CuriousFinn ...

quote:

By any way, you don't happen to mean the tract?

Don't actually know what I mean. My own personal experience of tracts is in the political sphere - small pamphlets picked up from other students in my university days. I have heard of religious tracts, but unless they resemble their political counterparts, I probably wouldn't recognize one if I fell over it!

The thing my friend showed me was a long piece of heavy paper / light cardboard, perhaps 4 inches wide, which folded up 3 or 4 times and was closed by a circular, clear-plastic sticky thingie. On the front, it had a religious picture on the left half, and space for an address and stamp on the right half. When you opened the sticky thing, the 'card' dropped open, showing Turas na Croise at the top and many individual religious pictures below. (There could have been 14 – I didn't really pay attention.) It wasn't signed but my friend, who has a friend – also Catholic – currently touring Ireland and Great Britain, assumes it came from her.

Thanks to all. From the above, I conclude that the 'Turas' in Turas na Croise means:

• 'Stations of the Cross', the 'Way of the Cross', the 'Journey of the Cross', la 'Via Crucis', la 'Via Dolorosa', der 'Kreuzweg' etc.;
• a practice involving multiple churches;
• a practice involving multiple homes; and
• an individual place on the above routes.

Turas can also appear in the plural (Turais) in respect to multiples instances of the latter (eg. '2 stations on the Journey of the Cross'). And, of course, turas and turais have many other uses having nothing to do with religion.

Since my friend is now willing to accept the above, please disabuse me only if absolutely necessary.

The Irish have really pressed turas into service here. Poor word! Couldn't find anyone else to help out? I guess stáisiún has to come in to lighten the burder.

Linda,

My experience of the Catholic system is very little. Don't know if they have a special word for such a thing, but I would still say it's a tract of a kind. I imagine it has a similar purpose, afterall.

The religious tracts that I've seen come in many sizes and shapes, different print styles, black on white or tinted paper, CMYK, wild colors out of the Pantone color space... All of them promote visions of some mostly Protestantic "distro" (can't think of a better word, LOL) and I've seen a Catholic one too...

quote:

an individual place on the above routes.

No. Definitely not.
The individual place would be called stáisiún

http://www.irishpage.com/prayers/stations/stations.htm

I think Sean's post above may have confused you, about the Churches in Rome to which a Pilgrimage was made on certain days. The places, as is shown in his text would be Theampuill Turais (ecclesiae stationales) (Churches of the Pilgrimage). But the word Turas still conveys movement in this sense, not a place.

Both these words, turas and stáisiún, have origins in the Latin language. The first is primarily related to turn, so the idea of a circuit or journey is most prominent. The second is related most to stay or stand. This conveys the idea of a stopping place or resting place. Obviously the two are connected because on a journey you stop at "stations". The particular missal I have uses turas in the sense of these stational churches as well. I cannot say if this is peculiar to the priest who wrote and translated this missal. I think a clearer use would be turas for the overall journey and stáisiún for the individual stopping points whether it is the Way of the Cross prayers or for the description of the stational churches.

I understood Teampall Turais to mean "the church to which the pilgrimage is made".

San Róimh anallód, laethe áithride nó trátha áithride den bhliain, do chruinnigheadh Críostaidhthe na Cathrach ar maidin go haon láthair ag Teampoll a bhíodh ceaptha roimhré. Thigeadh an Pápa chun an Teampuill sin agus an chléir ghá thionnlacan.

i.e. The Pope travelled (on foot, I think) to the church, accompanied by his clergy. That is the Turas.