My kids got their results yesterday ( is cúpla iad) and both passed at honours level.One had seriously considered dropping down to 'pass' level but he improved on his mock results and got a C3.Relief all round!Bhí imni orthu,gan amhras.

They both did better in German even though their Irish is of a higher standard.Why is this ? I asked.'Well Dad in German we don't have to do lit crit of poems we've never read and novels ,or short stories.We just have to achieve a certain level of competence in the language.'

Why do we set kids up to fail/hate Irish? O Cuiv says we should have 2 subjects: Language and Literature.Common sense from a politician,most odd.But when will he act?

Unfortunately, it is not in his power to act.

He is not the Minister for Education, and even if he were, that department has a long history of undermining the language.

Comhghairdeas le do sliocht, agus go n-éirí go geal leo.

I have to say that when I studied German and Spanish, the thing we did most of was speak. That is not to say we didn't write a lot, and train all our competencies (reading, writing, speaking, listening), but most of all we spoke with the teacher and learned from him. Nothing like the immersion method to get the ball rolling! But literary criticism isn't Irish, that is critical thinking concerning literature. You can critique a novel, but can you use Irish in all your daily activities? See the separation of the language from the everyday life? The point is whether the goal of Irish language education is to produce fluent speakers or people who think well or do something else well (hopefully all well, but don't mix up your goals in the Irish class.) I don't speak for Irish education, because I am in America, but most of my Irish relatives love their language, but disliked their schooling in it. Some disliked their schooling in it so much they dislike the language. (These are relative who got schooling in the 40s and early 50s, and it was quite harsh and "mechanical".) I do see hope for the generation coming up who seem to get more relevancy and fun to the language. One of the best ways to teach language is to not "teach" it, but just make it what "is" (= immersion). Also don't mix up your goals. Irish schooling should be for learning Irish. If literary criticism or some other subject achieves that, fine, but I doubt it at this point in time. Congratulations to your children. I hope they continue on with their language and pass it on.

The article below (two years old) seems to point out a trend more toward oral competency:

Minister Hanafin announces increase in marks for Oral Irish to 40% in exams

http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?maincat=10861&pcategory=10861&ecategory=10 876§ionpage=13637&language=EN&link=link001&page=1&doc=34715

'Is maith an rud Gaeilge a labhairt' - cool slogan!

Maith agaibh for your kind wishes.40% oral can't happen quick enough i mo thuairim.One of the guys wrote 4 sides on Peig.He deserves an award for masochism if nothing else.Seriously though,I enjoyed Peig very much.But I didn't read it till I was 38.There are other books on the course but teachers are comfortable with the relatively short Peig.

Aonghus,you are so right about the Govt.I read an off the record comment once by a civil servant - wish I could remember where.The gist was 'they' are scared witless by the prospect of bi-lingualism.Apparently we 'could end up like Belgium or Canada'.How bad!

GRMA arís.

quote:

Why do we set kids up to fail/hate Irish?

There was a time when Irish was forbidden in schools, when a guard was mounted to watch for the Department of Education Cigire or the PP while the Timire of Conradh na Gaeilge was sowing the seeds of revolution in the classroom of a sympathetic school Principal. Then when 1922 came and the Union Jack was replaced by the Tricolour Irish was declared the First Official Language and introduced into schools where some/many/most of the Primary Teachers did not know it. Their union, the INTO, opposed "compulsory Irish" i.e. if the teacher did not know it s/he should not have to learn it. Needless to say the new Government asked them "How do you like your job" and the first generation of less than enthusiastic teachers sought to teach Irish.

Another problem faced by the new Department of Education was that Irish was far from dead. There were scores of thousands of native speakers like Máirtín Ó Cadhain's parents who knew little English in all the present Gaeltacht counties and more besides. They needed to be taught Irish as their living vernacular language and be immersed in its literature so that the school might reflect the total immersion of the home.

At the other end of the spectrum were the Anglo-Irish and the people of towns in the long-anglicised areas of the country where Irish had been displaced so long ago that it was a completely unknown language. Even in such areas there were the stirrings of Gaelscoileanna where Irish enthusiasts set up schools such as Scoil Éanna, Scoil Bhríde, Coláiste Mhuire and Scoil Chaitríona in Dublin.

Obviously the solution was to have a learners exam in functional Irish, honours and pass; a native speakers exam in functional Irish, honours and pass; and a literature exam that might be taken by the native speakers and by the brightest and most enthusiastic of the learners. The Department's response was to say "Ah! *&@# it! Let them learn PEIG."

Now the Department is dumbing down all the Irish courses and leaving it to the enthusiastic gifted teacher to give the children in Gaeltacht schools and in Gaelscoileanna a grasp of the functional language and a love for the literature. Some of the best teaching is probably done in the Coláistí Samhraidh -- in spite of fliú na muc. With the emphasis on "oral Irish" and large classes and a dearth of really fluent Irish teachers and the chances of your good Irish teacher going off on maternity leave mid-year or taking a career break or just falling ill and being replaced by Mugadh Magadh Mac Uí Rodaí who couldn't manage a classroom if there were only one student present there is some doubt as to what goes on in the Irish language classroom. How do you get 30 youngsters to practise "oral Irish"? Who knows how the "oral examination" is marked? Is it a safety valve that can be raised or lowered depending on the standard of the written papers?

One green shoot that promises to enable adults to get to grips with the language and prompt educationalists (?) to produce graded learning materials for adults is TEG - www.teg.ie

My own view is that youngsters in Leaving Cert have a huge grasp of Irish. They have vocabulary, word order, structure, pronunciation, and an ability to express themselves fairly well on subjects relating to their own lives. There is still a spectrum of ability from the brilliant achievement of the weaker slow learner to the A1 student and the brightest Gaeltacht students. Who celebrates their achievement? When will anyone ask them to use the language they have tried so hard to learn in school? Hostility reigns in the out of school world and a good knowledge of Irish is hidden and gradually forgotten.

TG4 reveals it frequently, giving the most unexpected people the opportunity to speak Irish fluently, on its news and current affairs programmes. There is a need for an Irish Language Organisation to establish a centre in all the major towns with satelite centres in the villages. The GAA for games, Comhaltas for music, Coimisiún na Rincí Gaelacha for dancing, ?????? for the Irish Language. Money allocated to Irish probably gets syphoned off into pockets that have little to do with furthering the language.

We need more visibility for Irish on public signage and anywhere taxpayers money is spent. Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla Abú. Stádas Abú. Daltaí Abú.

Comhghairdeas le do chlann, a Mhacdara. Ní ón ngaoth a thóg siad an Ghaeilge.

A couple of more points (opinions) from me:

- The best learning is modeled on nature. How do babies learn languages? They learn through modeling the speech of their teachers (parents). This places on the front end of the learning process the speaking and listening skills. Eventually as they grow they take on the writing and reading skills -- if you don't have the first skills, the others will suffer. Keep in mind that humanity did quite well in an oral culture with few written texts. Writing and reading are *advanced* skills. [Media has catapulted this option into non-speaking households in a much realistic way than in the past.]

- There have to be psychological incentives to learning Irish for anyone approaching it as a second language, and keeping it as a first language. Plainly stated, Irish people have to feel like their missing out on something valuable if they don't learn it and speak, and keep speaking it. Call it "cool" or "part of our heritage" or "Irish women won't date men who don't know Irish" or "the bi-lingual edge" or whatever.