Nobody can learn the pronunciation of a language reading word to word in a dictionary.

I live in Barcelona and I learn irish withouth teacher, but I would be able to read any text or exercise.

The only complete set of rules that I find is the wikipedia pronuciation. I think is Conauguht.

Is a good idea use it to learn de words? Is natural or artificial? Is better that CO?

Is there another set of rules in other dialects?

Is there a complete review of this wikipedia pronunciation?

What Wikipedia pronunciation are you talking about?

The Irish Phonology article in the English-language Wikipedia covers all three dialects (although the divergent vowels of Ulster are discussed in a separate article). The examples in the Catalan and Spanish articles on the Irish language seem to use Lárchanúint, which is arguably closest to Connacht pronunciation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_orthography

In this article, there is a complete guide to pronunciation of irish (or the 99,9% of the words).

Lughaid's link is very interesting aproximation to 3 dialects, but is not easy to read a text with it.



http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html

I'm no expert, but that looks like Lárchanúint to me. There's nothing wrong with learning these pronunciations. They will provide you with a basis that you can enrich with dialect pronunciations as you finally have a chance to interact with fluent speakers. Differences between the pronunciations given in that article and those native to the dialects are probably greatest in the case of Ulster Irish, least when it comes to Connacht.

What books are you using to learn Irish? Most teach a particular dialect pronunciation. For instance, Ó Siadhail's popular Learning Irish teaches Cois Fhairrge, a Connacht dialect. Myself, I've been learning West Muskerry, a Munster dialect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_orthography

Is the only set of rules online?

Others dialects are very differents?

Learn the CO (Caighdeán Oifigiúl) - everyone who speaks irish will know what you are saying

learn a dialect and most people will know what you are saying (generous use of the word ''most'')

What do you consider "very different"? I wouldn't say Munster is more distant from Lárchanúint than, say, mallorquí from valencià. The individual articles on the dialects (e.g. Munster Irish) explain the chief differences, which largely involve the length and quality of the vowels.

I want learning CO and Connemara irish (the through flight Barcelona-Galway is cheap).

I have several books: Learning Irish, Teach Yourself, Foclóir scoile,Buntus Cainte, etc.

My problem is that Learning irish only has the pronunciation of the basic vocabulary and the dictionary has a pronunciation very different.

And the rest of the vocabulary, geographic names, surnames?

Is ridiculous to say a word in dialect and the next one in CO and the following in dialect.

I think that I need to find a set of rules to pronouncing all the words.

I think you're a little confused as to what CO is. It's a written standard, not a spoken one. A Munsterman may write cuairt a thabhairt "pay a visit", but he still says cuaird a thúirt (in the same way that a mallorquí and a barceloní may both write tauleta vermella but one says təulətə vərməiə and the other təulètə bərmèllə).

The Lárchanúint was an attempt to associate a normative pronunciation with CO, but by most reports it's a failure. I wouldn't worry too much about mixing dialect pronunciations; dialect speakers do, after all. For instance, West Muskerry speakers normally lenite /t/ after /l/, e.g. dialtha for diabhalta "devilish". But they don't do this in rialtas "government" because this is a more recent coinage brought to them from outside.

Yes, I'm confused with CO, Lárchanúint and the pronunciation of my "Foclóir scoile".

But I think that the rules of wikipedia page aren't the same of Foclóir scoile. Is very different. In wikipedia there is a lot of rules for elongation of vowels (before rl, rn, rd before syllable-final ll, nn, rr) and in foclóir not.

Congratulations for your knowledge of catalan (my native language). Is not very usual to find who knows the IPA pronunciation of catalan dialects. How is this possible? The catalan, why?

The CO is the collection of spelling conventions and grammatical conventions standardized since the 1950s. The latest edition (I believe) is 2001. The text is here (without the dictionary):

Gramadach na Gaeilge agus Litriú na Gaeilge: An Caighdeán Oifigiúil

http://ec.europa.eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/irish/an_caigh dean_2001_ga.pdf

The Lárchanúint is a proposed Central Dialect pronunciation for Irish which is linked to the reformed spelling.

Foclóir scoile, I understand, features pronuciation keys based on this proposal. I also understand that some people are schooled in this pronunciation.

Lárchanúint don Ghaeilge, by Dónall P. Ó Baoill
(I don't think this is online.)

Quina pregunta demana més fort una explicació: per què aprèn un nord-americà el català o per què aprèn un català l'irlandès?

Lengthening before "tense consonants" and clusters is found to some degree in all the dialects, although in Ulster least of all. In addition, diphthongisation is found in Connacht and Munster, although mainly the latter.

From my Munsterish point of view, the lengthening rules given on the Irish orthography page look Connaughty. For instance, /aːn̪ˠ/ and /aːmˠ/ for ann "in it/him; there" and am "time" are nearly identical to the forms Ó Siadhail gives for Cois Fhairrge (i.e. /ɑ:n/ and /ɑ:m/--Ó Siadhail systematically omits velarisation from his transcriptions) whereas further south they become /aun̪ˠ/ and /aumˠ/, respectively.

Whether such lengthening is a regular part of the Lárchanúint is something I can't answer because I haven't read the work Seánw cites.

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Lengthening before "tense consonants" and clusters is found to some degree in all the dialects, although in Ulster least of all.

Well, I don't think there's any lengthening of vowels before nn in Ulster Irish...

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Whether such lengthening is a regular part of the Lárchanúint is something I can't answer because I haven't read the work Seánw cites.

No such lengthening in Foclóir Póca, at least.

Conchubhar1 wrote: Learn the CO (Caighdeán Oifigiúl) - everyone who speaks irish will know what you are saying.

As a recent beginner, I share Mikel's concerns about choosing between regional differences, and I agree with the gist of this thread as far as the words a student speaks (or the way he/she speaks them) are concerned.

But it doesn't take into account the hearing/recognition part of learning a language. One of today's posts, "Where are you from?", lists 7 alternatives to the Cad as tu? I learned from my book. I assume that an Irish-speaker would recognize them (or be able to figure them out) when spoken by someone else, even if he/she doesn't use them. But I wouldn't even know they are all ways of saying the same thing!

Not all Irish-speakers would recognise every one of these, just as not all English-speakers would recognise every regional variation on "How are you?" Of course, context makes all the difference. "What's shakin'?" and "Foo's yer doos?" are much easier to interpret in a situation where everyone is getting acquainted and the same is true of "Cárbh as duit?" etc. In short, don't worry about memorising every possible variation; a couple of the most common should be more than adequate.

I read in internet: "(scotish) Gaelic is a beautiful language to hear and speak, but frightful to read and spell."

I think that irish spelling is worse, but it's well worth learning.

I've seen all kinds of negative things written about Irish/Gaelic spelling, but never from anyone who actually uses the language on a regular basis. Rather, these critics tend to be would-be learners, failed learners, and those with no interest in learning.

Moreover, they generally haven't a firm grasp of proper pronunciation. They see a lot of useless "extra" letters because the presence of these indicates phonetic distinctions which they don't typically make. For someone who can't distinguish caora from círe it seems ridiculous to have two completely different spellings for these words. But if you really understand how each should sound, the orthography makes perfect sense.

I agree...

A Dhomhnaillín,

I have to admit that when I went for my first visit to Ireland I was full of pride thinking "Irish is bound to die if they don't cut out all these 'silent' letters". I was astounded by how insane the words looked compared to other "simple languages" I've studied. Spanish and German looked so ordered whereas Irish seemed to me to be spelled by an man coming out of a pub late at night. Ah ha! Then I studied it earnestly (not ephemerally as before) and found that it is a old system, so it has been tested and tried, and that there is logic to it. (The problem was with me, not the system.) I admit it is a hurdle to overcome for the learner, but a good explanation and a person with an average intellect can grasp it. I now find it no difficulty to "get" the meaning of all the conventions, but have to remind myself not to pronounce the vowels there to indicate slender and broad. (I still have a tendency to do this when reading.)

I am amazed that people are so quick to write off a system first developed by very intelligent people (didn't the Irish save Western Civilization?). But then again, I did it. We have to be humble when learning a language and be able to receive the wisdom even before we understand it, just as a child does.

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is a old system, so it has been tested and tried, and that there is logic to it. (The problem was with me, not the system.)

May be a logic system for the ancient irish, but today is a real problem because Learning irish is learning two languages.

It is not a critic, but an opinion. I'm interested on linguistic change and for me,irish is fascinating and enjoyable.

Mikel, there's some degree of diglossia in every language. No orthography is ever a perfect match for any natural spoken form. Usually the spelling system starts out as a compromise (again, Catalan is a good example here) and even if it didn't, the spoken language would soon change enough that the perfect fit would be lost.

So next time you're annoyed at having to memorise /ə'nʲuvˠ/ for inniu, /'golʲ/ for dul, or /'i:nʲsʲəxt// for insint, remember that I had to memorise /i'stiw/ for estiu, /'pɛndrə/ for prendre, /'pɔbblə/ for poble and scores of other little "exceptions" that you, being a native speaker, never even think about.

Domhnaillín

Surely, you are right and in a couple of months, I will solve a lot of these problems.

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May be a logic system for the ancient irish, but today is a real problem because Learning irish is learning two languages.

The modern spelling is not that old, Old Irish was quite different. And when the modern spelling was created, the Irish pronunciation wasn't that different from the modern one... The Irish spelling is not so archaic and far from the modern pronunciation, especially when compared to French or English spellings...