Dear Friends:

I have wondered for a long time how to construct certain predicate thoughts. I ask some related questions before, but I'm having some trouble getting it. Some examples would be:

1. I would like "to do such and such".

For "to go"
Would this be "Ba mhaith liom téigh." or "Ba mhaith liom ag dul" for
"I would like to go". I'm not sure what you use exactly in the
place of the usual infinitive in English or Spanish.
I am not sure if you use the imperative or the noun verb.

Other examples:

Ba mhaith liom ith. / or / Ba mhaith liom ag ithe.
Ba mhaith liom ól. / or / Ba mhaith liom ag ól.

I also would like to form the thought: "I need to practice my Gaeilge". Would this be something like "Tá sé de dhith orm ag cleachtadh an Gaeilge".

I'm leaving for Ireland in a couple of weeks and I'd like to understand this better before I get there.

Slan agus go raibh maith agaibh,
Faber MacMhoalain

quote:

1. I would like "to do such and such".

For "to go"
Would this be "Ba mhaith liom téigh." or "Ba mhaith liom ag dul" for
"I would like to go".

None of them:
Ba mhaith liom téigh would mean "I'd like "go!" "
Ba mhaith liom ag dul would mean "I'd like going" (you'd never use an "ag+VN" form in that sentence).

The correct translation would be:

Ba mhaith liom dul (Munster)
Ba mhaith liom a ghoil (Connemara) (the "a" there is a part of the VN which only disappears when you put "ag" before it, in other sentences of course)
Ba mhaith liom a ghabháil (Donegal)

quote:

I'm not sure what you use exactly in the
place of the usual infinitive in English or Spanish.

If you know Spanish, I think it'll help me more to remember the right things:
ag dul = yendo
dul = ir (roughly, it's not exactly the same thing)
téigh = ve!

quote:

I am not sure if you use the imperative or the noun verb.

You only use the imperative when you order someone to do something.

quote:

Other examples:

Ba mhaith liom ith. / or / Ba mhaith liom ag ithe.
Ba mhaith liom ól. / or / Ba mhaith liom ag ól.

Ba mhaith liom ithe.
Ba mhaith liom ól.
(verbal noun without nothing before).

quote:

I also would like to form the thought: "I need to practice my Gaeilge". Would this be something like "Tá sé de dhith orm ag cleachtadh an Gaeilge".

Tá sé de dhíth orm mo chuid Gaeilge a chleachtadh.
Other structure: the direct object of a verbal noun without "ag" is put before, and you put "a" (leniting) between the object and the verbal noun.
to do something = rud éigin a dhéanamh.

quote:

I'm leaving for Ireland in a couple of weeks and I'd like to understand this better before I get there.

Ok. Feel free to ask other questions if something isn't clear. Using verbal nouns properly and translate properly "doing", "to do", "do" in Irish is difficult for English speakers, because English has fewer forms, and each of its forms has several meanings and uses, while in Irish you have different forms and structures instead...

Lughaidh:

Thanks for the help. If you never use the "ag" am I understanding that you use in Ulster as you have shown? "Ba mhaith liom a ghabháil". Isn't the "a" just "ag" shortened? I really appreciate your help. So, if I'm to understand, I just use the verbal noun by itself or lenit the verb noun if I place it after the object using the "ag"?

Ba mhaith liom glanadh an teach. / I'd like to clean a house.
or (alternately)

Ba mhaith liom an teach ag ghlanadh. / I'd like to clean a house.

Am I understanding this correctly?

I am accustomed to using infinitives liberally in Spanish and often go from Spanish to Irish as it feels closer. In Spanish we use infinitives to express such things as:

Oir y intender es saber. (To hear and understand is to know. That's three infinitives that generate a great amount of communication) Can also translate "Hearing and understanding is knowing.

In Irish I often feel the need to stack infinitives and don't know how to get that feel. Also, how do you form (I can't remember what they're called) dependent clauses such as:

I told him THAT he needs to come.
I said THAT the horse was beautiful. (Dúirt mé go bhí an capall deas....a guess at it).
I told them that I love the language.
I am here so I can thank these people.

Anyway, I am sure after a week in Oideas Gael many of these questions will be answered. They're just hard to get when you're going at it alone at the dining room table.

Go raibh maith agat,
Faber

The thing is, ag doesn't cause aspiration. So if the a in a ghabháil were really short for ag, you'd expect *a gabháil instead. No, the a here is a worn-down version of do, which does aspirate. In older Irish, you'll actually see do written out. (E.g. [D]'ordaigh an rí tigh Shíogaí do ghlanadh[.] [Séadna Cab. 23].)

So the correct versions are: Ba mhaith liom an teach a/do ghlanadh and Ba mhaith liom glanadh an tí. (If the direct object follows the verbal noun, it must be in the genitive--at least in the standard language. I think there may be some dialects which allow the casus rectus here.)

A Dhomhnaillín Breac na dTruslóg,

As the only stupid question is that not asked, I must unstupidize this one.

So, is it this do (for|to) that melts down with a (his|her|its) to form dá and respectively the reduced form a melts together with the other to form á which is now the standard?

And is it the same thing reduced to d' instead, appearing before vowel-initiated verbs in some cases? Does it in this case have any other function than padding?

Finnín Feor

quote:

So, is it this do (for|to) that melts down with a (his|her|its) to form dá and respectively the reduced form a melts together with the other to form á which is now the standard?

Not really.

á and dá are combinations of the full form "do" and possessive adjectives:
do (to) + a (his/her/their) = dá (do as a normal preposition: to his, for his: dá leabhar = for his book.
do (to) + a (his/her/their) = á (do only in progressive (!) verbal noun constructions: Tá mé á bhualadh = I am hitting it.
(lit. Am I to-his hitting)
Compare full form of do in: Tá mé do do bhualadh = I am hitting you.
(lit. Am I to your hitting)

quote:

And is it the same thing reduced to d' instead, appearing before vowel-initiated verbs in some cases?

Yes, do (modern a) was reduced to d' before vowels and fh.
And perhaps some older speakers still do so I'd think.
E.g. Gaedhilge d'fhoghluim (modernized: Gaeilge a fhoghlaim) = "to learn Irish".

BTW: modern d' in d'fhoghlaim mé (I learned) is a quite different kind of "do".

quote:

Does it in this case have any other function than padding?

No. It's no padding but joining.
Formally a translates as "to":
Gaeilge a fhoghlaim = "to learn Irish"
Word order is as it is in German: "Irisch zu lernen"

The reduced form "a" can't appear before possessive adjectives.
You couldn't say "a+a bhualadh" but you'd say
a bhualadh (lit.: his hitting) alone, or:
é a bhualadh (lit.: him to hit)
E.g.:
Ba mhaith liom a bhualadh = I'd like to hit him.
(lit.: would-be good with-me his hitting)
ba mhaith liom é a bhualadh = I'd like to hit him.
(lit.: would-be good with-me him to hit)

Lars

I think stuff like "Gaeilge d'fhoghlaim" would still be said by some people in Munster (of course they'd say "Gaelainn" or "Gaeilinn" instead of Gaeilge there).

Lughaidh:

Thanks so much. I leave for Ireland next Wednesday. You have been such an incredible help to me these last few months. I appreciate it very very much. If any reading this live near Omagh, I would like to invite you to my father's birthday party next Friday night. Email for details.

Slán go foill,
Faber MacMhaolain