I'm doing my MA thesis on the shift in status of speakers of Irish (vocabulary or simply syntax) in English-language Irish plays. I'd like to mention the final wrap-up in No Béarla (the part by Peig's grave), but I need to double check what Manchan actually said and get the citation info.

The problem is, TG4 has taken it all down, and it seems they've forced youtube to remove the clips from that last episode. Anybody know where I can still find episode 4 online...or at least a transcript thereof?

Thanks in advance,
A

You stirred me to listen to programme 1 in the series. What is the official line on his pronunciation?

I'm now in programme 2! If the moral of the programme was that there was no Irish in Ireland, he didn't show that. The community leader of Rath Cairn sounded excellent - and the difference between his Irish and that of the presenter was striking. And in one of the pubs he managed to order food in Irish. The programme would have been better with someone with better Irish presenting it. At least for me it spoils it as when I download programmes in Irish I prefer them to be things I can copy rather than things I can't copy.

In the end, his conclusion is something along the lines of, "you can still find the odd-speaker here and there, but by and large there is little actual support for it in government services, no support for it in private, urban-based businesses, and all those who think the picture is anything other than a chalk outline are deluded wishful thinkers."

To me, No Béarla 2 is nonsense. Manchán just tried to find ways to convince people that his own opinions are right.
He wanted to show that the Irish of the Gaeltacht is not the best one (by asking vocabulary to young native speakers, eg. laxative and daddy-long-legs), he wanted to show that listening to another dialect during 1 hour makes you more clever, that every Irish citizen has the Irish language sleeping somewhere in his/her subconscious, etc.

Nonsense... I would be just as easy to prove the opposite or whatever else...


Actually, when I hear Manchán speaking Irish, I just think TG4 should have chosen someone else to make and to present such a program.
In No Béarla 1, he wanted to show almost nobody speaks Irish fluently in Ireland outside the Gaeltacht (which is more or less right, in my opinion), but his Irish is so bad, I mean, if he went to the Gaeltacht I'm even not sure people would have understood him...

Sin a rabh le ráidht agamsa...

I mentioned this here before some ago:
Around the time the first No Béarla came out Manchán appeared on "The Panel" and let it be known to all that he couldn't care less about Irish and thought it should be allowed to die.
Here it is if anyone's interested: http://www.rte.ie/tv/thepanel/av_20070108.html?2207527,null,228
He comes on 13 minutes into it and says most of it about the 18 minute mark.

Antaine, with regard to your original question, have you asked TG4?

Or even Manchán himself (http://www.manchan.com)

i have one thing to say about manchan's irish

hector

Manchan , another scurge on the plight of Irish Language, With a bit of ádh , thats the last we will see of him , but bad tastes and smells have an annoying way of returning

Because of this here thread I also have been motivated to look at some of the clips in YouTube. Both Manchán and No Béarla are new to me, I must add. I have had a look at his website, as well.

With all the people trying to crush their way into the media world nowadays one needs some sort of shtik to get noticed in the crowd. It seems obvious that Manchán's shtik is iconoclastic provocation; he has donned the cape of the drastic, debunking inquisitor.

This is, generally speaking, a commonly employed shtik nowadays and in-your-face-illusion-shatterers are more or less ten-a-penny. I sometimes think, however, that there is an element of genuine bitterness - maybe of the "jilted lover" or "embittered idealist" type - lurking, angry and vulnerable, behind the brazen mask.

I found the clips I was looking at quite OK. In one way, someone like Manchán could energize the whole debate. And I actually find his Irish quite appealing at times; it could even be a good candidate as a model for a lárchanúint.

The content was good in parts and the man has obviously a lot of energy - and potentially a lot to offer. However, even if I were someone who had no interest in Irish I would still say that his weakness is that he lays the negatives on too heavily. And in places he too obviously rigs the plot to get the pre-desired outcome; the rapidly blurted out list of Irish/Klingon words is a case in point - an English/Klingon wordstew would have fared no better.

But Manchán's Irish is too good for it to belong to a life-long Irish-hater - on the contrary, it bears the hallmark of someone who formerly loved the language; so maybe he is a bit of an embittered idealist, after all, who has embarked on a Rachefeldzug to avenge himself on the language because it hasn't lived up to his expectations.

I think he could be even better if he managed to jettison some of his baggage.

(Message edited by ormondo on May 07, 2009)

quote:

it bears the hallmark of someone who formerly loved the language

But do you think it's possible to love the language and to butcher it like that at the same time? Is aisteach liomsa sin...

He wrote his first novel in IRish, Manchan I mean.

I hope the editor made it corrected before he published it...

Well Lughaidh, it's probably in Standard Irish, but still he cannot be a "hater" of the Irish language.

my recollection of his story was that his grandmother was a native munster speaker who used to bribe him with candy as a child to learn...I think he says he only learned Irish to get the candy, and that he learned it from her.

i would gladly give him Candy to stop speaking , and putting people off the Language lol. Maybe we could do a collection and send it to him , at least when he is eating he cant be speaking lol

Add a sprinkling of arsenic :)

This is what Feargal Ó Béarra had to say about Manchán:

/quote{Added to this is the suspicion that there is an unwritten policy at work in both TG4 and RTÉ NOT to use native speakers for television or radio advertisements. Much of what passes for Irish language broadcasting on TG4 and RTÉ is presented by non-native speakers who insist on pronouncing Irish with English phonology, English syntax and idiomatic conventions. The two best-known are Hector and Manchán, two of TG4’s most popular ‘stars’. However, the killer of all this is that people keep saying that they love these programmes because they can follow the Irish. That speaks volumes. If the truth be told, if these people were to speak English the way they speak Irish, they would be ridiculed and severely condemned.}

Iontach suimiúil agus níl iontas ar bith orm! Shíl mé féin le fada gur d'aon turas atá an méid sin cainteoirí neamhdhúchasacha ar na meáin Ghaeilge...

Is scannal é sin. Dá mba mhian leofa sin an teangaidh a mharbhadh, cha ndéanfadh siad rud ar bith eile...

A Thrigger, an dtig leat inse domh cá háit a bhfuair tú an sliocht sin, le do thoil?

Trigger, that was interesting. Do you have a link for that?

i Have to say i really like Hector , he,s a Charachter , and kinda Cool , More Ulster Irish , Wouldnt go a miss either , and RTE are happy to promote TG4 , It means less Gaeilge programmes on their precious
British Boys Club Station.

LOL Is cosúil gur léigh mé an t-alt sin anuraidh agus go dtearr mé dearmad air! Léigheam a' méid sin rudaí achan lá...

Thks Trigger

get rid of hector and manchan


hhmm, that will do wonders for tg4 - two best known and only two of about 6 actually known by people

Ní leor bheith "cool" ar bhealach teilifíse i dteangaidh atá i mbaol. Tá níos mó daoiní ar nós Mháirtín Tom Sheáinín do dhíth ar TG4, in áit fear mar Hector srl...

Tá Gaeilg Mháirtín Tom Sheáinín gomh binn le ceol na n-éanach.

Yeah bin Manchan , give Hector prime time , as for the Other Dinosaurs , out to pasture. We always go on about the Children being the future of the Languge , so , Give them their own Television Hero,s , and Presenters to aspire , not just Presenters with Perfect Grammar but would put you too sleep lol

Aontaím leat go hiomlán a Lughaidh.

Teifeach > b'fhearr leatsa presenters le droch-ghramadach ná presenters le gramadach cheart, cibé ar bith...

Shílfí gurb é seo do mhotto : Is fearr Gaeilg bhriste ná Gaeilg chliste.

Bhíodh sraith do phaistí ann ina raibh Macdara Ó Fáthartha á léamh. Bíonn guthanna maithe ann máille drochghuthanna. Aontaím le Lughaidh, b'fhearr liomsa cainteoirí líofa, glé, Gaeltachta a bheith ann, go hairithe do chláranna siamsaíochta.

Agus bíonn. Mar shampla, bhíodh Aoife Ní Thuairisg i mbun "Cleamhnas".

An deacracht atá ann nach achmhainn do TG Fóir dul in iomaíocht le staisúin an Bhéarla. Is iomaí pearsan tarraingteach a d'oil TG4 arbh ón nGaeltacht dóibh, agus a sciobadh ina dhiaidh sin. Na Seoige, agus rl.

Ceist chasta, agus ag TG Fóir ag brath ar mhaoiniú ró íseal.

Once again you are putting words in my mouth , why you continue to do this i do not know, but i am well able to spot this and point it out to you. If i had a choice , and i do, over Manchan on channel 1 and Hector on Channel 2 , and some boring presenter on 3 , i would Never watch Manchan , so i would choose Hector , as he is fun and entertaing , soorry too disappoint you. The fact that you are obcessed with Perfect Grammar, That is your problem not mine. I just prefer Gaeilge , i dont make differences like you do , and you dont realise how damaging and insulting it is to the people you hurt and put offthe Language with this attitude. try reading what i write in future instead of reading your own thoughts into it , is it because english isnt your first Language and you dont always fully understand me? , this is not racist by the way , but a genuine question.

quote:

Yeah bin Manchan , give Hector prime time , as for the Other Dinosaurs , out to pasture. We always go on about the Children being the future of the Languge , so , Give them their own Television Hero,s , and Presenters to aspire , not just Presenters with Perfect Grammar but would put you too sleep lol

Isn't it possible for someone to be "cool"/likable to young people and speak decent Irish?
Is Hector's mutant Irish part of what's cool about him?
I sincerely hope not. Imagine a generation of Irish speakers and learners seeking to emulate him!
"Yeah, taw midge egg learn-áil an Gwaylgeh, like."
Shudder

Well its a good guess im going against the Norm here but thats ok , and i hope i am entitled to my opinion , im all for anything that gets People hhoked on Irish , the rest can be smoothed out later , i would like to think we are way past the " Lets Beat Good Grammar into em, Christian Brothers style" Days. There must be many here with Perfect Irish ,that they can well afford to " Cast the First Stone" about anothers Irish , step up , Who's First , chan mise , , ,

lads tg4 are looking for presenters for a kids show

if any of you read foinse ye would know, any of you in ireland should go for it

;

(Message edited by conchubhar1 on May 09, 2009)

Táim ró shean! Tá mo dhóthain le déanamh agam mo ghasúir féin a choimeád sásta. Tá súil agam go n-aimsíonn siad duine óg bhríomhar ón nGaeltacht - agus go bhfanfaidh sé/sí leo ar feadh scaithimh!

caitfidh siad neart focail a foghlaim ^

cuisneor agus rothar mar shampla

quote:

Once again you are putting words in my mouth , why you continue to do this i do not know,

Because you continue to provoke me...

quote:

but i am well able to spot this and point it out to you. If i had a choice , and i do, over Manchan on channel 1 and Hector on Channel 2 , and some boring presenter on 3 , i would Never watch Manchan , so i would choose Hector , as he is fun and entertaing , soorry too disappoint you.

Is cuma liom cé acu is fearr leat!

The fact that you are obcessed with Perfect Grammar, That is your problem not mine.

quote:

I just prefer Gaeilge , i dont make differences like you do , and you dont realise how damaging and insulting it is to the people you hurt and put offthe Language with this attitude.

My attitude just hurts conceited people like you. Not humble learners who want to improve their Irish.
Saying that any kind of Irish is alright without saying what is the model to follow and what shouldn't be imitated, is what does harm to Irish. Because people believe everything is reliable and so they can't improve their Irish.

quote:

is it because english isnt your first Language and you dont always fully understand me? ,

What didn't I understand?
Now *I* feel there are things you don't understand in what I say, even in English. Although my English is far from perfect, I think it is understandable.

well

manchan was on tg4 there about 10 mins aho on imeall

so.....

get over it

and lugaidh he didnt say brojen irish is better than clever irish


he was trying to say, irish is irish and at least have a presenter with a character

Conchubhar1 > Can you atleast come up with something original or interesting for once?

just pointing out the fact tg4 like and employ him

and lughaidh, in that one instance above, was making up his own view on what was said

Dá ngéillfí do dhrochchaighdeáin sna meáin mar bhunphrionsabal is luaithe a bheadh a port seinnte ag an teanga.

Maintaining high standards is essential; encouraging learners is essential. There is no natural necessity to bring these two indispensable aspects into constant conflict with one another.

Are there enough facilities for learners in the different stages? Beo.ie is a great facility for those at a slightly more advances stage and a great credit to all involved. "An litir bheag" on the Alba website combines interesting texts, which are both spoken and written, at two learning levels with extensive glossaries; I think that's a real gem - cheal ama, faraor, níl ach beagán de léite agam.

We learners might not have the Holy Grail of perfection in our possession but that's no reason not to strive for it. And it's certainly no reason to want to get rid of it.

Learners should feel very encouraged by what they know already and be excited about what there's still there for them to learn. (And Lughaidh is very generous when it comes to helping learners.)