I have an interest in Irish but my Irish is not good enough for me to write this in Irish but I listen to RnaG regularly.

What impresses me is that RnaG seem to be able to root out Irish speakers in most places where news events have happened around the world.

Recently I have heard Irish speakers reporting on the big fire in Australia and even the school massacre in Germany on Admhaidin.

The language isn't dead yet!

Anois tá tú ag caint. Tá foghlaimeoirí Gaeilge na scoileanna siocaithe roimh lucht a gcáinte. Tá togha na Gaeilge ag a bhformhór ach ní labhróidh aon duine Gaeilge leo taobh amuigh den scoil. A luaithe is a thagann Raidió na Gaeltachta nó TG4 ina dtreo tá ar a gcumas ceisteanna a thuiscint agus a fhreagairt agus úsáid a bhaint as cuid bheag den méid Gaeilge atá ar eolas acu i nganfhios dóibh féin. Muna mbeadh daoine chomh cáinteach gearánach binibeach faoi "bhotúin" agus "laige" na bhfoghlaimeoirí bheadh i bhfad níos mó díobh sásta iarracht a dhéanamh an teanga a labhairt.

Téimse go dtí an Fhrainc go minic agus labhraím Fraincis le gach aon duine. Tosaím i gcónaí le "Je regret, je parle mal le francais." A luaithe is a chloiseann bean an tsiopa nó fear na dticéad mé deir siad, "Mais, non, monsieur. Vous parlez bien le francais." agus leanann siad ar aghaidh ansin ag comhrá liom. Bíonn deis agamsa éisteacht leo agus ní hamháin go mbainim sásamh as Fraincis a labhairt ach diaidh ar ndiaidh bím ag éirí muiníneach asam féin. Taitníonn an Fhraincis liom mar is maith le muintir na Fraince a dteanga féin agus is aoibhinn leo castáil ar dhuine a dhéanfaidh iarracht labhairt leo ina dteanga féin.

Dá n-abrófá le cainteoir dúchais Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht nó taobh amuigh di, "Tá brón orm, a dhuine uasail, nach bhfuil an Ghaeilge go maith agam" d'abrófaí leat, "Speak English so!". Corr-dhuine a déarfadh leat, "Nach cuma. Coinnigh ort. Tá sí go breá agat."

Dá gcasfaí lucht Ard-Teistiméarachta nó mic léinn iar-bhunscoile i measc fíor-chainteoirí Gaeilge nach mbeadh sásta glacadh le caint uathu i dteanga ar bith seachas Gaeilge déarfá go bhfuil sár-Ghaeilge ag an aos scoile tar éis a dtrí bliana déag á foghlaim. Is é an trua é nach dtugtar an seans dóibh in oifig ná i siopa ná i stáisiún na nGardaí féin. Bhíodh an Chéad Chathlán á riaradh trí Ghaeilge uair dá raibh ach ní chloisim a dhath uathu na laethanta seo.

[Cé a cheartóidh na botúin i mo chuid fraincise thuas?]

Unregistered Guest,

It is good, but at the same time one would expect a serious radio station like Raidió na Gaeltachta to have people 'on the ground' to cover noteworthy events anyway. TG4 is much the same. They recently aired a documentary about Ché and sent a crew down to South America. Others have gone to Nepal, India, France and so on. 13 years on and TG4 has a reputation (and not just among Gaeilgeoirí!) for innovative programmes and excellent documentaries. It's not unusual to see reporters on Nuacht TG4 reporting from all over. Do you watch TG4 much?

Hopefully Taidhgín or someone else will summarise their reply so you can actually respond to the thread you started!

quote:

my Irish is not good enough for me to write this in Irish

Danny, please don't be so patronizing. I would be hard put to write the original message on this thread in German, but it's easy as pie reading something of that complexity in German. Passive vs. active skills. Similarly, lots of people can profitably listen to RnaG (as it seems the OP has been doing) long before they'd be ready to be interviewed on it.

Im not too up on the structures here , but i find it strange if not kinda rude to answer someone in Gaeilge that clearly cant understand what you are saying , and to my mind in it is written in the English/Gaeilge section , maybe i have something wrong here , if so i appologise. But good luck to you and carry on listening and watching as long as you can , it can only improve your understanding of the sounds and structures of the language , but will need backed up by some sort of class or teaching aids in the Language.

Teifeach

Teifeach - with respect, it's not "clear" at all that the original poster can't read Irish. That's the point I was making above. It's entirely possible that he (or she) is comfortable reading Irish but not writing full paragraphs in it. I'm like that myself in German, and I was like that in Irish for a long time. Or he might be more of a beginner, and not able to make heads or tails of what Taidhgín wrote. We simply don't know, and there is no harm in giving Irish a go till we find out.

What we do know is that he listens to RnaG and understands some of it... agus tá sé sin go hiontach. Coinnigh ort! Tuigfidh tú níos mó gach lá - you'll understand a bit more every time.

Is fíor duit é - that's true for you. Níl an teanga marbh.

Ceart go leor Aibigail Tuigim anois, I just thought on the Irish/English section , with no sign of any attempt at Irish , how it could be assumed that the poster would have that level of Irish. But i am not used to this site as i am a Newbie , and i will learn lol. But i do hope that the poster did Understand the Gaeilge.And yeas RnaG Aagus TG4 do a fantastic job with a lot of first class Programes.

Teifeach

Reading that the "Unregistered Guest" that started this thread was very interested in Irish, but whose Irish was not good enough to write his thoughts on R na G yet whose understanding of the language was sufficient to listen regularly to it and understand a certain amount I assumed that it would be OK to write in Irish.

I am delighted to give a bit of assistance to those who would like to attempt again to understand what I wrote. Here's the first paragraph with a few words translated or explained:

Anois tá tú ag caint. Tá foghlaimeoirí Gaeilge na scoileanna [those learning Irish at school] siocaithe [frozen / rigid / terrified ] roimh lucht a gcáinte [ of those who criticise them ]. Tá togha na Gaeilge ag a bhformhór [most of them know (have) the best of Irish ] ach ní labhróidh aon duine Gaeilge leo taobh amuigh den scoil [ but no one will speak Irish to them outside the school ]. A luaithe is a thagann Raidió na Gaeltachta nó TG4 ina dtreo [ as soon as R na G or TG 4 approach them ]tá ar a gcumas [ they are able ] ceisteanna a thuiscint agus a fhreagairt [to understand and answer questions ] agus úsáid a bhaint as [ to use ] cuid bheag [ a little ] den méid Gaeilge [ of the amount of Irish ] atá ar eolas acu [ that they know ] i nganfhios dóibh féin [ unbeknownst to themselves / without realising it i.e. that they know so much ]. Muna mbeadh daoine [ if people were not ] chomh cáinteach gearánach binibeach [so critical, complaining, bitter ] faoi "bhotúin" agus "laige" na bhfoghlaimeoirí [about the errors and weakness of learners ] bheadh i bhfad níos mó díobh sásta [ far more of them would be willing (toiteanach?)] iarracht a dhéanamh [ to make an effort ] an teanga a labhairt [ to speak the language ].

Is leor sin don uair seo. That is enough for the moment. If anyone wants an explanation of any other phrases in my "rant" above they have only to tell me and I'll be pleased to continue. It is better however for learners to use the dictionary and try and make out the meaning for themselves. What you find out for yourself stays in your memory while looking over a translation is too easy and is not much use in learning vocabulary, idiom, grammar, word order, structure, all the features that make up a language and make it appealing.

Unregistered guest... here's a rough translation of Taidhgín's first post. Taidhgín has demonstrated perfectly that Irish isn't dead yet or will it ever be.. get your dictionary out, it's fun.

Now you're talking. Those with school Irish freeze up before their critics. The majority have great Irish but no one will speak Irish with them outside of school. As soon as RnaG or TG4 show up they're able to understand and answer questions and use the little amount of Irish they were unaware they knew. If people wouldn't be so critical and negative about learners' mistakes and weaknesses, many more of them would be happy to make the effort to speak the language.

I often go to France and I speak French to everyone. I always start off with "Je regret, je parle mal le francais." As soon as the woman of the shop or the ticket man hear me they say, "Mais, non, monsieur. Vous parlez bien le francais." and they then continue chatting to me. I get the opportunity to listen to them and not only do I enjoy speaking French but gradually I become more confident in myself. I like French as the French people like their own language and I love to meet with people who make the effort to speak their own language.

If you were to say to a native Irish speaker in the Gaeltacht or outside of it.
"I'm sorry, sir, my Irish isn't good" They'd say to you " Speak English so!"
The odd person would say.. "No worries, carry on with it. You're fine at it"

If one were to meet the Ard-teist crowd or post primary school students amongst fluent Irish speakers that wouldn't be happy to engage in conversation in any language besides Irish you'd say that school education produces kids that have wonderful Irish after learning it for thirteen years. The pity is that the chance isn't given to those in an office or even in the Gardaí station. The First Battalion used to be administered in Irish once but I don't hear a thing from them these days.

(Who will correct the mistakes in my French above)

quote:

"Je regret, je parle mal le francais." As soon as the woman of the shop or the ticket man hear me they say, "Mais, non, monsieur. Vous parlez bien le francais.

Je regrette, je parle mal le français.
Mais non, monsieur, vous parlez bien le français.

Merçi, Lughaidh.

Well done, Asarlaí. You have saved me a task. Go raibh maith agat as an iarracht a tharraingt ort féin.

Two small points:

Taitníonn an Fhraincis liom mar is maith le muintir na Fraince a dteanga féin agus is aoibhinn leo castáil ar dhuine a dhéanfaidh iarracht labhairt leo ina dteanga féin.

is aoibhinn leo = they love to meet a person who will make the effort to speak to them in their own language

Dá gcasfaí lucht Ard-Teistiméarachta nó mic léinn iar-bhunscoile [ if they were to find themselves / if they happened to be ] i measc [ among ] fíor-chainteoirí Gaeilge [real Irish speakers ] nach mbeadh sásta glacadh le caint uathu [who would not be willing to accept speech from them ] i dteanga ar bith seachas Gaeilge [ in any language other than Irish ] déarfá [ you would say ] go bhfuil sár-Ghaeilge ag an aos scoile [ that the school children have excellent Irish ] tar éis a dtrí bliana déag á foghlaim [ after (spending) their 13 years learning it ].

I can't let this topic go without referring to the word "cas". Essentially it means "turn" or "spin" (even "sing" a song or "play" a tune)

In the above sentences "cas ... i measc" means literally "spin ... among" but really "happen to be among" or "find oneself among" literally "if they were to be spun among")

and "cas ar" means to "meet". The image of us all spinning around like Dervishes and bumping into one another is vivid and amusing and different from anything in English.

"Casadh orm é" means "I met him" but literally "he was spun on me"

Abigail,

I wasn't being patronising. My own view is that if a guest comes on and says "my Irish is not good enough for me to write this in Irish" it's probably not the best idea to respond only in Irish. Especially if it's four or five long paragraphs. I certainly wasn't taking a shot at Taidhgín.

And even if they can understand it, what are they to do? They can't respond effectively using Irish. So will it be a back-and-forth with one user using English and the other Irish? Is the guest supposed to bring out their dictionary and go through literally hundreds and hundreds of words trying to make sense of it all?

It's not unreasonable to want at least a summary of the reply. That's all.

quote:

We simply don't know, and there is no harm in giving Irish a go till we find out.

I always think: "how would this go down in person?" If you wanted to chat about RnaG and said (in English): "I have an interest in Irish but my Irish is not good enough for me to carry on a conversation with you", would you expect the other person to respond in Irish and keep talking for a couple of minutes or more?

Sure, you could argue that their LISTENING skills might be fine but their SPEAKING skills lag behind. "And who can tell if we don't at least try?"

I listen to RnaG a lot too but I'm at the stage where it's mostly to get a sense of the sounds and rhythm of the language. I'm able to pick out words and phrases more and more as times goes on. And even I can get a sense of the headlines during the nuacht bulletins. I know the words for Germany and Australia.

quote:

but it's easy as pie reading something of that complexity in German.

To you, Abigail. Perhaps not to others.

quote:

We simply don't know, and there is no harm in giving Irish a go till we find out.

I know we come from different schools of thought on this issue. You'll go for Gaeilge amháin every chance you get and who can blame you for that? But I'm not sure that's the right approach for an unregistered guest who has said they can't write in Irish yet. It may be off-putting. Some of us can't type out four paragraphs i nGaeilge with ease. But if those who can want to do so, and then go back later and provide a summary as Taidhgín has done (GRMA), then good.

Danny, I agree with Abigail on this one. Like our unregsitered guest, I listen regularly (most days in fact) to RnaG, (particularly for my local news from Corca Dhuibhne) I can certanly follow the gist of the programmes. I was able to fully translate Taidhgin's response, apart from the odd word, but I would have difficulty in writing coherently, accurately and at length as gaeilge (at least for now).

I'm sure if unregistered guest wanted a summary or translation,there are many here who would be happy to oblige. as would Taidhgin himself

Danny made a good point. We don't know how much Irish can the OP understand. And when replying I would want him to know all of what I said, not just the jest of the answer.

I agree with Danny, if someone makes a post saying ''I don't have good enough Irish'' one shouldn't write in Irish alone, that isn't fair to the poster.

If I went onto a Welsh forum and people started posting to me in Welsh, I wouldn't be happy.

Haigh Taidhgín
I am sorry if you thought that i was refering to you as being rude , even though you have not said so , but i will say it again that i Never meant to imply that you were being Rude , just the Process of Answering in Gaeilge in that Particular post. But your efforts since have more than Satisfied me , as i know how troublesome it can be to write the same piece in English and Gaeilge , Go raibh maith agat. My main point is that at some stage We all had to learn , and Learners Deserve the Upmost care and Respect till they find their Confidence , especially Adults , I know this from Personal experience , and from not all that long ago.
This Nonsense about emulating Native speakers ( I was Born and Bred in Ireland , how Native do i gotta be lol) and 100% correct pronounciation is Killing off well intentioned speakers/Learners by the day. I am Derry born and Bred ,which is in Northern Ireland , if you think for one second i am gonna forsake my Derry accent to a Southern accent just to Please the Purists , you have two hopes , Bob Hope ,and No hope lol.
It may be different for yourself Lughaidh , as you have to choose an Irish accent to use , as i would have to choose a French accent to use if i decided to Learn your Language, But the one i have is 200% Authentic Irish lol.

Teifeach

I would also like to reiterate that my comments weren't meant to be snarky and that Taidhgín did absolutely nothing 'wrong' by replying in Irish. Indeed, they've been more than happy to translate when ever it has come up and provided some thought-provoking responses in the census thread.

Suaimhneas,

quote:

I'm sure if unregistered guest wanted a summary or translation,there are many here who would be happy to oblige. as would Taidhgin himself

True. And thanks to both Asarlaí and Taidhgín for doing so already. Hopefully Unregistered Guest will return and set one of us straight regarding their level of Irish.

I can only speak for myself and say that those paragraphs are extremely challenging. The bit of French there actually helped me as I was enrolled in l’immersion française through most of my schooldays.
Languages are a struggle for me at the best of times and I think they'd be daunting for any beginner, although less so for those in the elementary or lower intermediate level etc.

Finding a happy medium on this issue is tough.

Beagnach deich mbliain ó shin, casadh orm Fionlannach eile ar Usenet... Tá dearmad déanta agam de cén t-ainm a raibh ar an grúpa, ach bhí sé i mBéarla... chuir mé cúpla scéala le mo chara nua sa snáth i bhFionlainnis, agus ní raibh é aoibhinn le úsáidire eile. Ní raibh mian liom iad ina bhfearg a déanamh, ach níor scríobh siad liom ar feadh i bhfad.

We've got to remember that there are native Irish speakers who would be reluctant to write more than a few words in Irish for fear of adverse criticism so we can't make too many assumptions about the Unregistered Guest's knowledge or language ability, s/he did say s/he listens 'regularly' to RnaG. It'd be good if s/he were to enlighten us?

Seanfhear


Curiousfinn, ná déan dearmad gur sraith Gaeilge agus Béarla é seo. Ach b'fhéidir nach raibh ach Béarla amháin ceadaithe ar an suíomh úd ar Usenet?

S

OK, For those who might want an approximate translation of my awkward Gaeilge...

> Almost ten years ago, I met aother Finn on the Usenet.
> I have forgotten what the group's name was, but it was
> in English. I posted a couple messages with my new
> friend, in Finnish on an English thread, the other users
> clearly didn't like that. I didn't want to make them angry,
> but it took long for me to have any more conversation.

It must have been my language switch inside a thread that upset the others, although unintentionally, and no, nowhere it was said that English was exclusive there, and probably I would have been fine starting my own thread in another language... even Irish, if only I knew any of it back then.

Thank you all very much for your kind and lively comments - I understood the Irish ones too with a little help from my foclóir.

I suppose what I meant to say was that there must be a lot of people around the world who are very loyal to RnaG.

Of course, RTE sent professional reporters to all these places but they tend to get beamed in there and do the usual media thing which seems to be becoming the same the world over.I watch the big-money media too, and I don't mean to be negative, but what you get is often comments from people who are as if they are in a big media show and they tend to say very standardized kind of mass-media things - like as if we are all part of a kind of breaking-news soap opera.

RnaG seems to be able to root out ordinary people and get more real-life accounts.

I mean the two examples I cited: the big fire in Australia and the exotic depths of Germany where they interviewed a guy who lived nearby the school massacre. RTE didn't manage that; RTE had the usual buzz-word commentary you can hear on any English-speaking channel. And all the people RnaG interviewed were well able to be interviewed in Irish. How do they manage that? I mean nobody speaks the language in the Galltacht!

There must be more people around the whole world competent in Irish than people imagine. Why don't we all get together. GRMA.

Here's to RnaG!

quote:

I mean the two examples I cited: the big fire in Australia and the exotic depths of Germany where they interviewed a guy who lived nearby the school massacre. RTE didn't manage that; RTE had the usual buzz-word commentary you can hear on any English-speaking channel. And all the people RnaG interviewed were well able to be interviewed in Irish. How do they manage that?

That's a good point. RnaG and TG4 have to work harder in some ways because they are working through the medium of a minority language.

quote:

I mean nobody speaks the language in the Galltacht!

This might be a sarcastic comment on your part. I'm not sure. Anyway, there are more habitual speakers scattered throughout the Galltacht than in the Gaeltacht at this point. Tens of thousands more, in fact.

It's nice to conduct interviews with Irish speakers in Germany and Australia, but let's not get carried away here. You're talking about a handful of people in those countries. One the other hand, I can think of quite a few people now living in Ireland who learned Irish before they moved. People from the Netherlands, Poland, Canada, China, Australia.