I am a new student. I was watching a teaching video on Youtube and the instructor gave the following examples which conflict with "Learning Irish" Micheal O Siadhail. Are they both correct?


An dliodoir é? Is he a lawyer (Youtube course)

An bhfuil dliodoir é? Is he a lawyer? ("Learning Irish")

Nach dliodoir é? Isn't he a lawyer (Youtube course)

Nach bhfuil dliodoir é? Isn't he a lawyer ("Learing Irish")

Is the "bhfuil" optional? It just seems more natural with it in there, and I know Micheal O Siadhail is a tested learning source. Or, are they both correct but with slightly different meanings?

Your thoughts?
Faber MacMhaolain

An bhfuil dliodoir é? Is he a lawyer? ("Learning Irish")

Nach bhfuil dliodoir é? Isn't he a lawyer ("Learing Irish")

Which lesson in Learning Irish did you get these from?

As a fellow "foghlaimeoir", I have found that one of the trickiest things for an English speaker learning Irish is the use of the copula ("is" and it's various forms). The classic pitfall, which is almost a shorthand for poor Irish, is the sentence "Tá sé fear". To an english speaker, this appears the obvious translation for "He is a man". The correct version, or at least one of them, is "Is fear é". The sentences quoted in Domhnall's post are just slightly more complicated versions of "tá sé fear" and, as such, are to be avoided like the plague. I have never used Learning Irish but I share Domhnall's scepticism about its inclusion of the phrases quoted.

Ádh mór leis agus, más sólás é, táimid go léir ag fulaingt le chéile!

I am looking on the Grammar Summary table at the bottom of page 11. I just used the noun "Dliodoir" because I learned it recently. So, pleae clarify for me how I should say::

He is a lawyer.

and

Is he a lawyer?

and

Isn't he a lawyer?

Thanks for your help.

FM

Ps: I am a Spanish speaker so the Ta and Is don't seem unfamiliar. In Spanish we would say.

Yo soy un hombre (I am a man)

You cannot say "Yo estoy un hombre". That would be like "I am becoming a man". I guess you could if you had a sex change operation.

I believe Estar is the equivalent of Tá and Ser is the equivalent of "Is". I often teach people by telling them to think of Estar as "become". Example, Yo estoy alegre. (I have become happy).

At the risk of making a tit of myself and my budding ability in the language:

He is a lawyer - Is dlíodóir é

Is he a lawyer? - An dlíodóir é?

Isn't he a lawyer? - Nach dlíodóir é?

Tá an cheart ag YouTube!

Faber, which edition of "Learning Irish" do you have? The Dublin Insitute for Advanced Studies edition (c. 1983), is that correct? (I ask this because there is no table on page 11 of the Yale University Press edition; it is on page 8 in that edition.)

If so, then the problem is not with the table, but with the way you are making the substitution. The table is for the verb tá, not the copula is. The basic pattern in the table is:

Tá Cáit anseo. "Cáit is here."

If you substitute dlíodóir into the table, you will get:

Tá dlíodóir anseo. "There is a lawyer here." (literally "A lawyer is here.")
An bhfuil dlíodóir anseo? "Is there a lawyer here?" (literally "Is a lawyer here?")
Nach bhfuil dlíodóir anseo? "Isn't there a lawyer here?" (literally "Isn't a lawyer here?"), etc.

Tá is used with adjectives and adverbs; Is is used with two nouns or pronouns (and occasionally with adjectives for emphasis only). You cannot substitute a noun for anseo in the above pattern.

There isn't a table for the sentence pattern Is dlíodóir é. in Learning Irish but you will find an explanation in Lesson 12 (on page 55 of the DIAS edition; page 50 of the Yale edition). You will also have to read Lesson 11 first to get the proper context.

The standard forms are, as An_chilleasrach stated:

He is a lawyer - Is dlíodóir é

Is he a lawyer? - An dlíodóir é?

Isn't he a lawyer? - Nach dlíodóir é?

What you WILL find different is that Cois Fhairrge dialect uses Ar instead of An (see explanantion and footnote 2 on page 49 of DIAS edition, page 44 in Yale edition), which yields:

Ar dlíodóir é? for "Is he a lawyer?"

That's not incorrect, just non-standard.

Breandan:

Thanks again so very very much. You are right that I did not understand the table to be of "Ta" usage. I am still only beginning to understand the conjugation of verbs because the "Tus Maith" course doesn't lay the conjugations out clearly. It is however wonderful to use in hearing the spoken language. You sort of have to dig the conjugations out of the companion text. Hence, I've not seen the conjugation of Tu and Is, and took a quick look (too quick) at an old "Learnng Irish" book that I had. I have not delved into "Leaarning Irish" because I don't have the cassettes that came with it. Do you know if they sell it with CDs that I could put on my laptop?

Have you ever thought of moving to Central Texas and giving Irish lessons? I know my father and I would be takers!!! LOL

Slan go foill
Faber

Don't worry, Faber. It took me a few attempts to get through Learning Irish on my own. Some of the explanations a little ambiguous without some supplementation from other sources...

Now, I had a look for a CD version of Learning Irish on Amazon and could only find audio cassettes. (Apparently they haven't come out with a CD yet.) Not as convenient as a CD but well worth getting if you still have a cassette player at home.

I also found this site on the net:

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/gaeilge/lessons.html

but I haven't been able to get the .ra files to work on my computer. :-(

Perhaps you'll have better luck.

Breandan:

Go raibh maith 'ad. I will try to get the sound working as well. It didn't right off, but I was thinking perhaps because I use a mac.

Slan
Faber

Scríobh Breandán:

I haven't been able to get the .ra files to work on my computer

Tá ort suiteáil RealPlayer, nó WinAmp agus an .ra codec.

GRMA, CF.

Tá RealPlayer suiteáilte agus nuashonraithe agam ar mo ríomhaire Mac agus ar an aithriseoir Windows freisin ach bíonn teachtaireachtaí dearmaid ag teacht aníos orm ag an dá cheann nuair a thugaim iarracht ar na comhaid sin a oscailt. :-(

I've installed and updated RealPlayer on both my Mac and on the Windows emulator but both give me error messages when I try to open those files. :-(


(Message edited by breandán on February 27, 2009)

Oibríonn iad dom. B) Ach tá siad ró-ghasta dom agus tá glór sintéiseach acu.

(Message edited by curiousfinn on February 27, 2009)