mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (January- February) » Archive through February 02, 2009 » Archive through February 15, 2009 » Mo Ghile Mear « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 124
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 07:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is this song as Gaeilge or Gàidhlig?

I was thinking that "gile" and "mear" are adjectives in Gàidhlig?

Does this mean "my bright dashing (one)," where the "one" is understood but not articulated?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8067
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 05:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It is a Jacobite song, so it may well have been exposed to both.

I'm not sure about the meaning of "Gile mear", but I think you are correct.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 125
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 07:14 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, Aonghus.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

An_dreoilín
Member
Username: An_dreoilín

Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 09:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

my spirited beloved, nach ea?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8069
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:25 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Dhreoilín, is dóigh liom gur aistriúchán "comhthreomhar" seachas focal ar fhocal atá ansin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Macdara
Member
Username: Macdara

Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Giolla ná gile? Giolla = servant lad ,gillie,boatman etc.

My Swift Gillie.

Scots Gaidhlig surely.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8071
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I doubt Charles Stewart would have appreciated being called a Giolla!

http://www.celtic-lyrics.com/forum/index.php?autocom=tclc&code=lyrics&id=626

And the Scots Gaelic spelling of Giolla is Gille (two L's).

My Swift Brightness atá ann.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8072
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dála an scéil:

gile [ainmfhocal baininscneach den cheathrú díochlaonadh]
bail an ruda atá geal; gealas.

mear [aidiacht den chéad díochlaonadh]
tapa (rith mear); grod, tobann (gníomh mear); teasaí (duine mear).

agus ó Dwelly: (http://www.dwelly.info)

gile sf ind Whiteness

mear: merry, joyful, wanton.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ormondo
Member
Username: Ormondo

Post Number: 225
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 12:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The poem from which the song originates is attributed to Seán Clárach Mac Domhnaill (1691 - 1754) or Seán Ó Tuama (1708 - 1775), who were both Munster poets, and it laments the defeat of Bonny Prince Charlie.

(Message edited by ormondo on February 11, 2009)

Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8075
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 04:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have checked Ó Donaill & Dinneen and both give Gile as a noun; one of whose many meanings is beloved.

So I recant; An Dreoilín was correct

quote:

my spirited beloved, nach ea?



Sea. Tá spirited mar bhrí ag mear ag an Dálach chomh maith le Dwelly. Géillim!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ormondo
Member
Username: Ormondo

Post Number: 227
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 05:34 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What about expressing it this way: brightness is the literal meaning of "gile", and merry, joyful, spirited are part of the metaphorical spin-off, the kind of which were widely used by the poets - of the past especially?


Bhaintí úsáid as nathanna den chineál seo sa sean-fhilíocht. Mar shampla d'úsáidtí "úire ghné", a chiallaíonn "freshness of countenance", le h-áilleacht ógmhná a chur in iúl.

Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8078
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 05:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is le mear a bhaineann ná bríonna eile siúd.

The original question was whether "Gile" and "mear" were both adjectives. Gile is a noun in this case, with a wealth of meaning, and mear is an equally rich adjective.

Cuireann sé scéilín grinn i gcuimhne dhom faoi Ollamh Spáinneach a chuir ceist ar an Ollamh le Gaeilge, ag fiafraí an raibh focal sa Ghaeilge a d'fhregair do "manaña" na Spainneach.
Rinne sé a mharana, agus ansin dúirt:
"At least twenty, but none with the same sense of urgency!"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ormondo
Member
Username: Ormondo

Post Number: 229
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 06:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go hiontach!

Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ormondo
Member
Username: Ormondo

Post Number: 230
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 06:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Is le mear a bhaineann ná bríonna eile siúd.



Bhainfinn na sramaí anois de mo shúile ach tá sé ró-dhéanach san oíche chuige sin: b'fhearrde dom dul faoi "éadaí bána"!

Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Antain
Member
Username: Antain

Post Number: 45
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 07:25 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The correct title of the song is 'Mo Ghiolla Mear'. There are no class connotations to the word 'giolla' when it's used figuratively in phrases like 'Giolla na leisce' and so on. 'Mo ghiolla mear' simply means 'lively one', one of many code names given to the Stewart in song and verse.

The other interpretation 'my swift brightness' is (1) meaningless and typical of a tendency to view everything in Gaelic culture as other-wordly and (2) ungrammatical. 'Gile' is feminine and would lenite the adjective: mo ghiolla mhear.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8084
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 07:36 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a Antain.
Ach más mar sin atá, tuige go bhfuil "Mo Ghile Mear" chomh fairsing sin? I bhfad níos fairsinge ná an leagan eile ar líne pé scéal é.

(Message edited by aonghus on February 12, 2009)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Míshásta (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:42 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8085
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 09:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

GRMA, a Mhí, ach ní fheicim fuascailt mo cheiste ann.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Macdara
Member
Username: Macdara

Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 01:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aonghus a chara, maybe I'm wrong and 'gile' can be a noun- 'my brightness' ná 'my beloved'.But I don't think Charlie would be too hacked off about the 'ghillie' tag.The song - as I understood it anyway! - is supposed to refer to his escape from the dreaded Redcoats of Butcher Cumberland disguised as a boatman and even as an Irish servant girl.This last ploy was presumably intended to acount for his silence.His voice and French accent would have been a dead giveaway.Seán Clárach Mac Dómhnall,that figures .Did he write Bán Cnoic Éirinn ó?Moleithscéal,my Gaeilge is weak but I'll remedy that soon.I've heard our job is imithe shortly!! GRMA

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8089
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 03:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Donnchadh Ruadh Mac Conmara atá luaite le Bán-Chnuic Éireann Óighe i "Filidheacht na nGaedheal"

Maidir le Giolla nó Gile - the jury is out. Both are possible - Antain gave good reasons why it is Giolla; the dictionaries give Gile as a noun meaning among other things beloved. I'd go with Giolla were it not for the fact that the other name seems to be so commonly used.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ormondo
Member
Username: Ormondo

Post Number: 233
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 04:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Corruair cloistear an leagan seo a leanas: "'S é mo léan, mo ghiolla mear". Dá réir sin chanfaí "laoch" le "gile" agus "léan" le "giolla". Comhréir chuí a bheadh sa chóras sin, nach ea?

Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 126
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 07:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agaibh.

So it is an Irish noun at least. I am happy to live with the ambiguity between giolla and gile.

I wonder how often these tough ones from poetry are double entedre? That is deliberately using a word with a close homophone that could be appropriate and expands the meaning of the text.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8095
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 05:26 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

I wonder how often these tough ones from poetry are double entedre?



All the time. Nathaíocht is an old sport in Ireland.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2707
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 05:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gille means boy in Scottish Gaelic...

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/



©Daltaí na Gaeilge