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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 124 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 07:27 pm: |
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Is this song as Gaeilge or Gàidhlig? I was thinking that "gile" and "mear" are adjectives in Gàidhlig? Does this mean "my bright dashing (one)," where the "one" is understood but not articulated? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8067 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 05:10 am: |
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It is a Jacobite song, so it may well have been exposed to both. I'm not sure about the meaning of "Gile mear", but I think you are correct. |
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 125 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 07:14 am: |
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Go raibh maith agat, Aonghus. |
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An_dreoilín
Member Username: An_dreoilín
Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 09:59 am: |
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my spirited beloved, nach ea? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8069 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:25 am: |
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A Dhreoilín, is dóigh liom gur aistriúchán "comhthreomhar" seachas focal ar fhocal atá ansin. |
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:28 am: |
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Giolla ná gile? Giolla = servant lad ,gillie,boatman etc. My Swift Gillie. Scots Gaidhlig surely. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8071 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:48 am: |
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I doubt Charles Stewart would have appreciated being called a Giolla! http://www.celtic-lyrics.com/forum/index.php?autocom=tclc&code=lyrics&id=626 And the Scots Gaelic spelling of Giolla is Gille (two L's). My Swift Brightness atá ann. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8072 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:52 am: |
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Dála an scéil: gile [ainmfhocal baininscneach den cheathrú díochlaonadh] bail an ruda atá geal; gealas. mear [aidiacht den chéad díochlaonadh] tapa (rith mear); grod, tobann (gníomh mear); teasaí (duine mear). agus ó Dwelly: ( http://www.dwelly.info) gile sf ind Whiteness mear: merry, joyful, wanton. |
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Ormondo
Member Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 225 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 12:54 pm: |
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The poem from which the song originates is attributed to Seán Clárach Mac Domhnaill (1691 - 1754) or Seán Ó Tuama (1708 - 1775), who were both Munster poets, and it laments the defeat of Bonny Prince Charlie. (Message edited by ormondo on February 11, 2009) Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8075 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 04:55 pm: |
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I have checked Ó Donaill & Dinneen and both give Gile as a noun; one of whose many meanings is beloved. So I recant; An Dreoilín was correct quote:my spirited beloved, nach ea? Sea. Tá spirited mar bhrí ag mear ag an Dálach chomh maith le Dwelly. Géillim! |
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Ormondo
Member Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 227 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 05:34 pm: |
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What about expressing it this way: brightness is the literal meaning of "gile", and merry, joyful, spirited are part of the metaphorical spin-off, the kind of which were widely used by the poets - of the past especially? Bhaintí úsáid as nathanna den chineál seo sa sean-fhilíocht. Mar shampla d'úsáidtí "úire ghné", a chiallaíonn "freshness of countenance", le h-áilleacht ógmhná a chur in iúl. Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8078 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 05:47 pm: |
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Is le mear a bhaineann ná bríonna eile siúd. The original question was whether "Gile" and "mear" were both adjectives. Gile is a noun in this case, with a wealth of meaning, and mear is an equally rich adjective. Cuireann sé scéilín grinn i gcuimhne dhom faoi Ollamh Spáinneach a chuir ceist ar an Ollamh le Gaeilge, ag fiafraí an raibh focal sa Ghaeilge a d'fhregair do "manaña" na Spainneach. Rinne sé a mharana, agus ansin dúirt: "At least twenty, but none with the same sense of urgency!" |
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Ormondo
Member Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 229 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 06:02 pm: |
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Go hiontach! Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Ormondo
Member Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 230 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 06:12 pm: |
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quote:Is le mear a bhaineann ná bríonna eile siúd. Bhainfinn na sramaí anois de mo shúile ach tá sé ró-dhéanach san oíche chuige sin: b'fhearrde dom dul faoi "éadaí bána"! Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Antain
Member Username: Antain
Post Number: 45 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 07:25 am: |
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The correct title of the song is 'Mo Ghiolla Mear'. There are no class connotations to the word 'giolla' when it's used figuratively in phrases like 'Giolla na leisce' and so on. 'Mo ghiolla mear' simply means 'lively one', one of many code names given to the Stewart in song and verse. The other interpretation 'my swift brightness' is (1) meaningless and typical of a tendency to view everything in Gaelic culture as other-wordly and (2) ungrammatical. 'Gile' is feminine and would lenite the adjective: mo ghiolla mhear. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8084 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 07:36 am: |
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Go raibh maith agat, a Antain. Ach más mar sin atá, tuige go bhfuil "Mo Ghile Mear" chomh fairsing sin? I bhfad níos fairsinge ná an leagan eile ar líne pé scéal é. (Message edited by aonghus on February 12, 2009) |
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Míshásta (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:42 am: |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8085 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 09:09 am: |
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GRMA, a Mhí, ach ní fheicim fuascailt mo cheiste ann. |
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 01:39 pm: |
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Aonghus a chara, maybe I'm wrong and 'gile' can be a noun- 'my brightness' ná 'my beloved'.But I don't think Charlie would be too hacked off about the 'ghillie' tag.The song - as I understood it anyway! - is supposed to refer to his escape from the dreaded Redcoats of Butcher Cumberland disguised as a boatman and even as an Irish servant girl.This last ploy was presumably intended to acount for his silence.His voice and French accent would have been a dead giveaway.Seán Clárach Mac Dómhnall,that figures .Did he write Bán Cnoic Éirinn ó?Moleithscéal,my Gaeilge is weak but I'll remedy that soon.I've heard our job is imithe shortly!! GRMA |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8089 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 03:28 pm: |
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Donnchadh Ruadh Mac Conmara atá luaite le Bán-Chnuic Éireann Óighe i "Filidheacht na nGaedheal" Maidir le Giolla nó Gile - the jury is out. Both are possible - Antain gave good reasons why it is Giolla; the dictionaries give Gile as a noun meaning among other things beloved. I'd go with Giolla were it not for the fact that the other name seems to be so commonly used. |
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Ormondo
Member Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 233 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 04:39 pm: |
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Corruair cloistear an leagan seo a leanas: "'S é mo léan, mo ghiolla mear". Dá réir sin chanfaí "laoch" le "gile" agus "léan" le "giolla". Comhréir chuí a bheadh sa chóras sin, nach ea? Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 126 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 07:56 pm: |
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Go raibh maith agaibh. So it is an Irish noun at least. I am happy to live with the ambiguity between giolla and gile. I wonder how often these tough ones from poetry are double entedre? That is deliberately using a word with a close homophone that could be appropriate and expands the meaning of the text. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 8095 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 05:26 am: |
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quote:I wonder how often these tough ones from poetry are double entedre? All the time. Nathaíocht is an old sport in Ireland. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2707 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 05:38 am: |
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Gille means boy in Scottish Gaelic... Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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