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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (January- February) » Archive through February 02, 2009 » Archive through February 15, 2009 » Synthetic verb forms « Previous Next »

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Riain_liam_o_laithimh
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Username: Riain_liam_o_laithimh

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 06:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

So, I'm looking in my pocket Irish dictionary and finding that a lot of the verb paradigms listed don't have the synthetic forms. For example, the paradigm it gives for 'ceiliúir' for the present tense is:

ceiliúraim
ceiliúrann tú
ceiliúrann sé
ceiliúrann sí

ceilliuraimid
ceiliúrann sibh
ceiliúrann siad

(my dictionary actually had 'siad' twice, I'm assuming that's a misprint)

Now it's my understanding that one of the distinctives of the Munster dialect is use of the synthetic form for all verbs, for instance 'Táim go brónach anos' rather than 'Tá mé go brónach anois'. So is there a way to make a synthetic verb conjugation for the forms in this paradigm that are in the analytic form? What is the pattern for other verbs?

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 410
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 09:14 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Guidelines for the full synthetic conjugation can be found here: traditional conjugation and dialectical differences.

In the Munster Irish I learned, the only analytic forms to be replaced with synthetic ones would be the second-person singular (ceiliúrair for ceiliúrann tú) and third-person plural (ceiliúraid (siad) for ceiliúrann siad).

In this case, I doubt the second-person synthetic form would ever be used because of the awkwardness of pronunciation. The reason for the pleonastic siad with ceiliúraid may be that there are other synthetic forms where the ending is pronounced /əg'/ (e.g. the second-person plural imperative ceiliúraidh).

It's an odd verb in any case, isn't it? Normally polysyllabic stems take the endings of the second conjugation.

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 301
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 12:59 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

It's an odd verb in any case, isn't it? Normally polysyllabic stems take the endings of the second conjugation.


Polysyllabic verbs with long vowels in the last syllable don't. (tiomáin, sábháil, tionóil, etc.)

Lars

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2692
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 07:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Except in northern Donegal, for the future and conditional of the verbs in -ail :
sabhail > sabhalochaidh mé, shabhalochainn...

(according to O Siadhail in 'Modern irish...' )

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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etain breslin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, February 06, 2009 - 07:41 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

As a Dubliner, schooled 50 years ago in something approaching standard Irish,I've always said
shábháilfainn, sábhálfaidh mé

It's in Réidh-Chúrsa Gramadaí, which we used in school - my kids teacher in the 1980s recommended an uptodate edition for helping them with grammar.

etain

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2695
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 10:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aye, in standard irish it is shábhálfainn, sábhálfaidh mé, but in northern Donegal, people don't say that.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/



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