Is anyone on this forum a non-native/learner of Irish, and teaching the language to their children?

Just curious if it has been done. The prospect is intimidating, I will admit, but I would like to (and like to have the proficency to do so) when the day comes when I finally settle down with someone and have a family.

Gheobhaidh tú roinnt anseo:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuismitheoiri/

Me. I taught a 'cúpla focal' to my (at the time) 16 year old daughter while travelling to and in Ireland in 2006. My (then) 10 year old younger daughter had a few more words, and they were both tickled pink to recieve a free 'mineral' at the café on Inis Mór for using their tentative 'go raibh maith agat'-s. Later, the trap driver out to Dún Aonghus nearly fell onto the horse when they dropped a few words on him. A very satisfying and warming experience.

I'm not lucky enough to have children yet, but have read about and seen people who are trying to pass on their Gaeilge. There is a fellow on YouTube (an adult learner of Gaeilge) who has two daughters, Megan and Cerys, and he's posted videos tracking their progress.

The only thing about it is that his girls are/will attend a Gaelscoil. Irish-medium education takes some pressure off the parents involved, but the difficulty will be that the children will soon become more fluent than the parents - that's a wonderful thing in itself, but a challenge for the parents who might feel a little bit helpless/left out of their children's language development.

If I'm lucky enough to marry an Australian Gaelgeoir (not impossible! ;) ), then I definitely intend on passing on the cúpla focal, and then some. :)

(Message edited by roibeard_an_tastrálach on January 17, 2009)

Gaschaint is a CD and book set of phrases compiled solely for this purpose.
http://www.cic.ie/product.asp?idproduct=982&variables=

Just for the heck of it, if I ever have the luck to find a bean an have cúpla páiste, I would surely teach all I can to them. And doing that, I would probably learn more.

Seo bean atá i mbun a leithéid i gCeanada, bail ó Dhia uirthi.
http://misemamai.blogspot.com/

That is happening all the time. My mother did it. Although all she knew of Irish was the few words that remained in use in English in her part of the country, which had in the 19th Century been partially Irish-speaking, that and a few prayers in Irish taught to her by her grandmother, all of this was passed on to us, my two siblings and myself. At every opportunity however she chose options likely to improve our Irish at school, getting us to teach her what we had learnt in school each day, sending us to an all-Irish secondary school and to the Gaeltacht.

She lived to see us able to converse together in Irish among ourselves. She encouraged us to speak Irish in her presence even though she couldn't really join in the conversation. In her latter years she heard most of her grandchildren able to speak the language fluently and naturally. Other families here would have a similar story.

Gaelscoileanna did not spring from no where. We hear so much on the media of those who "hated Irish in school" and blame the teachers for their inability to learn it. What of those who loved it at school and learnt it and speak it now to all and sundry. Once you let it be known you have Irish you will discover that others know it too: the postman, the plumber, neighbours, the guy who plays music in the pub etc.

The language is like a smouldering fire -- it is constantly spreading as a second language but has not succeeded in gaining dominance anywhere -- yet -- except in the Gaeltacht. The youngsters who are fluent in Irish today see it as no big deal. They know it but can seldom find a use for it unless they take a job that needs it such as education, the media, the Civil Service, the Churches, anything associated with the Gaeltacht, and most recently, the European Union. Will they pass it on? Who knows.

Should you speak it to your children? Definitely. If you are only a learner you can pass on what you learn. You don't have to confine your children to just one langauge. They have a voracious capacity to learn and will use the "funny phrases" you teach them in appropriate contexts. Don't expect them to perform as entertainment for your friends however. They'll resent that. If you teach them lots of Irish they'll find their own use for it later on, and gain their own satisfaction from knowing it. In any case they'll thank you. If you know Irish well and don't pass it on to your children they will feel at a loss.

Seconded.

Well put.

My great grandfather started that kind of chain.

I pretty much agree too.

The irony is that this is how English gained a dominant position in the western half of the country. After the famine, especially.

Monoglot Irish grandparents, bilingual children...monolingual English grandkids etc. Or people with broken English using it with their children so they could "get ahead" with the result sometimes being children who could speak neither good Irish nor English.

My only reservation would be cases where people with, er, rather poor school Irish attempting to raise their kids solely through the language. But I doubt that's occurring much anyhow.

But as Taidhgín says, if you instill in them an appreciation of the language, it can only be a good thing!

Beautifully put, a Thaidhgín.

The earlier you expose your children to the sounds of other languages the better, too. Children's ability to recognise and differentiate sounds is retained into later life, but it is extremely difficult to tune adult ears to sounds they are not accustomed to.

So even if you are not confident speaking yourself, you can expose your children to the distinctive sounds of Irish and "educate" their ears just by playing the language around them through songs, radio, and other recordings etc. Naturally, if you can also speak to them that will increase its significance to them greatly.

The difficult thing as Taidhgín also mentions is to encourage without being pushy. I lost interest in music as a kid for the same reason; my parents would never listen to my music but would force me to play for relatives when they came over.

I rediscovered music and discovered Irish language when I got to university. A lot of Irish people seem to rediscover the language when they go overseas, especially when they find people studying it in places like Japan and Australia. (I often think that our role as foreigner speakers of Irish is to stimulate the Irish into using their own language back home.)

For her own cultural background, my daughter (1.5 yrs) mainly needs to learn English and Japanese but I am going to slip a few phrases of Irish to her as well. I am sure she will take it all in her stride. Just seeing that Mummy and Daddy love to play Irish music and sing Irish songs will hopefully encourage her to join in and one day she will surpass us both...

"it is constantly spreading as a second language but has not succeeded in gaining dominance anywhere -- yet -- except in the Gaeltacht. "

It was already spoken in the Gaeltacht anyway...


"The youngsters who are fluent in Irish today see it as no big deal."

Almost none of the kids in Gaelscoileanna are fluent. It's all a fraud


Still your chain idea is a very hopeful one


Breabdán,
your remark about sounds is not applicable to Ireland -school irish is the same as English in that regard

Bearn, who said anything about "school Irish"? We are talking about exposing children to the language at home. If I could not speak it myself, I would choose songs and recordings of native speakers, and I will probably do that anyway.

The value of early exposure applies to _any_ language. Japanese people exposed to "l" and "r" sounds as children are able to differentiate them as adults; those not exposed can rarely ever learn to do it. (People who are especially gifted at languages are an exception.)

Functional MRI studies suggest that all sounds tend to become hard-wired in the brain by age ten. For most Japanese, "l" and "r" become hard-wired as a single sound, because their language does not require the distinction.

Japanese immigrants to America, on the other hand, can distinguish "l" and "r" if they arrived at a young enough age, i.e., it is not genetic, just a question of exposure. Even those exposed till only three or four years of age then taken back to a completely Japanese environment retain the ability to distinguish "l" and "r".

If you give children the exposure early on and they don't take up Irish (or whatever other language you expose them to) until much later in life, chances are they will still retain the facility to handle the sounds of that language when the time comes. If they don't have the contact in the first place, it will much harder for them to "pick up" the new sounds further down the track.

If children have the proper grounding before they get to school they will be better prepared to sort the native pronunciations from the "school" pronunciations themselves. On the other hand, if they haven't been exposed to the proper sounds before entering school, THEN they will have no other reference and might assume that the school pronunciations are correct.

So, if you think school Irish is more of a problem than a solution, all the more reason to give the children a good grounding before they get there.

I don't trust the Australian school system to teach Japanese properly either (university programs here have to "re-educate" all high school Japanese learners), but I know my wife and I can help my daughter get through it or around it or over it, one way or another.

Cá bhfuil tú i do chonaí, a Bhreandáin? Just wondering. Táim i mo chonaí, de ghnáth, in aice leis na Sléibhte Gorma, san Astráil. An Astrálaí tú féin?

Is Astrálach mise freisin, Fintan. Tá mé i mo chónaí in aice le Cósta Sholas na Gréine, Tír na Banríona (the Sunshine Coast, QLD), anois ach bhí mé i mo chónaí i dTóiceo ar feadh sé bliana déag. Is Seapánach í mo bhean.

Please, Breandan, I'm running out of time and don't know how to get your response, even if you respond. To my e-mail? On this site? The phonetic pronunciation of "Go N-eiri an bothar leat"...

I would like to say "Go raibh maith agat" to those who responded favourably to my post on this topic.

I would like to address two points Bearn made taking the second one first: "Almost none of the kids in Gaelscoileanna are fluent. It's all a fraud."

Thankfully the opposite is true.

From my experience attending a Gaelscoil myself, sending my children to Gaelscoileanna, speaking with children who passed through Gaelscoileanna; and attending functions organised by our local Gaelscoil I can say with confidence there is no fraud. The children can speak Irish and do. Not exclusively but they will always reply in Irish if you speak to them in that language. I accept that they don't sound like Peig Sayers, Máirtín Ó Cadhain, or Professor "what's his/her name" but they have a thousand times more Irish than those of the same age attending English medium schools. And they know it. They are proud of their Irish and confident in using it. They have an excellent attitude to the language.

Regarding the first point: "It was already spoken in the Gaeltacht anyway..."

That is true and it may be declining in the Gaeltacht as a first language. What has changed dramatically is the attitude of those who used to put the language down and insist on Gaeltacht people speaking English. Irish speakers are still reluctant to give offence by speaking it in the presence of people whom they value and who do not understand Irish but they do not have to take as much "guff" [guth?] as they used from English-only people in authority. Officialdom is expected to know Irish now and the Gaeltacht people know their own social status has changed for the better.

Bearn,

It seems like quite a stretch to claim that they are a fraud.

Are you making reference to what is sometimes called 'Gaelscoilis'?

According to the Census, there are certainly several parents who pass on some Irish to children outside the Gaeltacht. For there are around 10% of children in the cohort of 3 years or younger, with knowledge of Irish. This is before education grasps.
I think it is useful for parents wanting to speak Irish at home to take part in Irish-speaking activities with fluent or near-native speakers in order to become fluent. For I think parents or one of the parents should be fluent if they want to speak Irish to their children. In cities it is possible. But I think it is difficult in rural non-Gaeltacht areas to have the opportunity to speak Irish regularly.

"But I think it is difficult in rural non-Gaeltacht areas to have the opportunity to speak Irish regularly."

Or on the west coast of Canada. ;)

A Bhreandán!

Tá áthas a 'bualadh' leat. Táim i mo chonaí in aice leis na Sléibhte Gorma, Down South Here...

"It seems like quite a stretch to claim that they are a fraud"

In Korea they want native speakers, so they fly you out, give you a free apartment, pay you higher than average wages etc because they value natives speakers. Why are they hiring native English speakers to teach Irish in Ireland? Fraud and arrogance.

"I accept that they don't sound like Peig Sayers, Máirtín Ó Cadhain"

My point was that they are non-native speakers, speaking learners Irish, and in English speaking communities. When they grow up they won't bring up their children speaking Irish (mostly this is the case, where are all those who passed thru the system now?) or if they do, it won't be Gaeltacht Irish. And to labor a point I'm sick of making, schools are not communities, so it does not matter anyway.

I hope they build enough steam to change things, but I fear that at the rate of things, it will be a century more before things kick in, and the Gaeltacht will be gone.

If they would be honest and tell the truth, that 'Oirish' (the Gaelscoil language) and Gaeilg/Gaeluinn (the native variety) are two different languages, then that is one thing. Evidently, they are different animals -one is an exotic example of an IndoEuropean language, the other is a boring pidgin for the boring middle classes. Why would anyone want that?

It's a tough situation. I don't agree that it's based on fraud and arrogance. It's about trying to make do with what's out there. Not every teacher can be a native speaker. They just aren't enough to go around. Besides, one can of course be an excellent secondary bilingual Irish speaker.

In recent years there have been a couple of studies on Gaeltacht schools.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0610/irish.html
http://www.cogg.ie/downloads/Gaeltacht%20achoimre2.pdf
http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=1133&viewby=date

One reason the results are so poor is because the bloody Gaeltacht borders haven't been redrawn in over FIFTY YEARS! They've only ADDED territory to it. Now *that* is a farce and a fraud. Teaching through Irish in many of these areas is no longer reasonable. Irish has largely disappeared in many areas. Many of the students living there are born outside the Gaeltacht. Quite a few are now born outside Ireland altogether etc.

Ó Cuív's boundary changes can't come soon enough. Hopefully 2009 will be the year. He only announced his intentions back in..........2003.

What's needed, if it hasn't already been done, is a detailed report on the state of Gaelscoileanna throughout the country. It would be interesting to know the following:

- Approximately what percentage of students use Irish with their peers outside the classroom? Meaning, during breaks. What about outside of school grounds altogether?

- What percentage of students attending a gaelscoil come from Irish speaking homes?

- What percentage of teachers are native speakers?

- What are the language standards for teachers?

- How many students who attend all-Irish primary schools but then switch to regular secondary State schools continue to use Irish?

As you say Bearn, where are all the students who have been coming out of these Irish medium schools over the past three decades? Certainly there has been an increase over the past fifteen years, but the number of Irish medium schools is still way, way lower than what it was in the 1940s, for example.

Ultimately it may all come back to the issue of compulsory status for Irish for the Leaving Cert.

"Ó Cuív's boundary changes can't come soon enough."

I can't see it happening. Apart from Conamara, the rest are measured in parishes.

That will get the cranks who view the language as useless ramped up, raving and frothing at the mouth about the cost etc (tho never complaining about the hundreds of billions squandered during the Celtic Tiger on pork)

Just a note on native speakers. Properly trained native speakers are worth their weight in gold, but untrained ones aren't always a good idea. So many English teachers in Japan don't know how to speak properly and can't distinguish between their own dialect or slang and standard grammatical English.

Also, my Irish students in Tokyo said they preferred my tuition over native speakers tuition because I could provide explanations of why things are the way they are and even point them to rules in the books, whereas native speakers would often just say "that's just the way it is, get used to it" and not be able to explain why. The fact that I could explain those rules in Japanese probably helped as well.

When learning Japanese at university, we had a balance of native Japanese and non-native teachers. The non-native teachers explained the intricacies of grammar and culture through English, and the native teachers took us through pronunciation, conversation and fluency, especially in the earlier years of the course. Conversely, the non-native teachers' pronunciations were always slightly suspicious; and the native teachers explanation were often gobbledy-gook (poor English, I mean) - but the university had them each doing what they were strongest at and it worked well.

So, I think 100% native speakers is not such a great idea, especially if they are untrained, (and it would be impossible to get that many teachers anyway). It is more important that trained non-native and native speakers are used according to their strengths and weaknesses. While grammar is sometimes better explained by non-natives, pronunciation, idioms, and fluency are better taught by native speakers.

Of course for Gaelscoileanna, teachers aren't just teaching language and have to be well-grounded in fields such as science, geography, accounting, etc. Native speakers also trained in those fields must be rarer than hen's teeth. Or are they?

Danny asks a number of questions above. Out of curiosity I put those question to three friends of mine (none of whom would have much proficiency themselves) who have children in the local gaelscoil (in Kildare). It's not a statistically robust response, but they told me the following:

- Approximately what percentage of students use Irish with their peers outside the classroom? Meaning, during breaks. What about outside of school grounds altogether?

Outside school grounds - practically zero. The parents in my survey who take turns in walking the kids home said they switch to English immediately. Mind you the kids will respond in Irish if a question is put to them in Irish

- What percentage of students attending a gaelscoil come from Irish speaking homes?

In this particular school; very few would have Irish as the first langauge in the household (they estimated less than 5%)

- What percentage of teachers are native speakers?

They couldn't say, but there were none from the Gaeltachtaí

- What are the language standards for teachers?

They couldn't say, but the standard was far higher than those teaching Irish in English-medium schools

- How many students who attend all-Irish primary schools but then switch to regular secondary State schools continue to use Irish?

They reckoned about 20%, and this is with the local secondary school offering an all-Irish stream, and there are other Irish medium schools within commuting distance.

quote:

A Bhreandán!

Tá áthas a 'bualadh' leat. Táim i mo chonaí in aice leis na Sléibhte Gorma, Down South Here...

Tá áthas ormsa bualadh leatsa freisin, a Fhintain. Tá mo shean-mháthair ina cónaí i Hornsby, agus nuair a bhí mé i mo pháiste, bhailíodh ár muintir uilig ansin le haghaidh na Nollag. Is minic a thug muid geábh sa charr thart tríd na Sléibhte Gorma freisin. Is álainn an áit í!

Ach tá muid ag gabháil as ábhar... ;-)

Just a brief comment in response Bearn's "My point was that they are non-native speakers, speaking learners Irish, and in English speaking communities."

The Irish language today is almost totally dependant on people who have learnt the language as a second language.

In the Irish context however that should not be compared to the casual recreational learning of English, French, Russian, German, Spanish or any other major world language.

Irish is transmitted within families as I have described elsewhere. It is taught in every Primary School. It is the language of the Gaelscoileanna. It is broadcast on radio and television. Thousands are employed as teachers, broadcasters, translators, and civil servants whose livelihoods depend on their knowledge and use of Irish. There are even some people in the Gaeltacht and outside of it whose English is less proficient than their Irish.

Ireland is bilingual. It's bilingualism is within each person in the state rather than a geographical bilingualism. It is not religious or tribal. Everyone educated in The Republic of Ireland knows some Irish. Some use Irish involuntarily because it is the community language of their area. Some use Irish with the State as a matter of principle.

The amount of Irish people know varies. Some are amazingly fluent such as Pádraig Ó hAoláin of Údarás na Gaeltachta, a native of Kilkenny, others know enough to speak it well in almost all situations, others remember very little and care less. Being an open welcoming State we have a huge number of immigrants from neighbouring countries and from Eastern Europe and Africa. Some of their children are best in class at Irish, to the chagrin of the locals.

The language situation in Ireland does not necessarily follow any other model. Only Israel has successfully gone down the path we are on.

Yesterday was a big day in Ireland. We celebrated the anniversary of the first Dáil. Most of those who spoke spoke in Irish as well as English. The four or five party leaders can all speak Irish fluently: Cowan, Kenny, Gilmore, Gormley, as can the Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil. All in all probably half the ceremony was conducted through the medium of Irish. A great achievement and so commonplace as to be let pass without comment.

Why anyone should try nitpicking by saying such a public assertion of the Irish State's commitment to the language was not "Gaeltacht Irish" or that it was "only Learner's Irish" is to disregard / disrespect / diss the huge commitment that huge numbers of people have to the Irish language. As a learner myself I wish to concentrate on the enjoyment of using what I know with family and friends and learning some more.

Maith thú, a Thaidhgín, aontaím leatsa

quote:

I can't see it happening. Apart from Conamara, the rest are measured in parishes.

That will get the cranks who view the language as useless ramped up, raving and frothing at the mouth about the cost etc

It has to happen. One criticism about the "Irish language movement" is that Irish is now rarely heard in vast swathes of the Gaeltacht. There's this perception though, that massive amounts of money and grants keep getting poured in. How will leaving the boundaries unchanged help that??

Although it does raise the question about the Placenames order in the Official Languages Act. If there are changes, what would be the status of the English version of the now-former Gaeltacht placename?

Ó Cuív said he would focus on the breac-ghaeltachtaí. He's hinted that areas which currently fall under the minimum threshold (as historically defined...meaning less than 25% of the population being daily speakers) would be given a certain amount of time to "get into shape". The sociolinguistic study on the use of Irish in the Gaeltacht that was carried out by NUI Galway suggested designating towns such as Dingle and Falcarragh etc as "Gaeltacht gateway towns" or some such thing.

I'd be astonished if he didn't change the borders at all. Right now, it makes it hard to get a true sense of the gaeltacht because so much of it (the areas in and around Galway for example), is little different from the rest of the country in terms of language habits!

According to the most recent census, there were a grand total of twelve children in the age 3-4 range who speak Irish outside the education system. By "Galway City Gaeltacht" it's referring to places like Claregalway (Baile Chláir na Gaillimhe). For 5-9 year olds, 36 out of 650 (5.5%) spoke Irish outside of school. These are areas which should clearly be removed. It's no longer fair to impose language restrictions on communities like these. As Donncha Ó hÉallaithe (Conamara) has said, to do so would be to try and protect something which isn't there.

A redrawing would be of net benefit to all concerned, in my opinion.

quote:

Danny asks a number of questions above. Out of curiosity I put those question to three friends of mine (none of whom would have much proficiency themselves) who have children in the local gaelscoil (in Kildare).

Interesting reading. When I was living in Dún Chaoin this past summer I encountered a few Irish teachers along the way. None had Irish as a first language. I asked similar questions to one who was teaching in an all-Irish school. She said in her particular school three or four of the kids came from Irish speaking homes. Can't recall how many students were in her class. I asked her if she thought the schools would result in a serious increase in the number of speakers in the next ten or fifteen years. She thought not, which surprised me.

quote:

Yesterday was a big day in Ireland. We celebrated the anniversary of the first Dáil. Most of those who spoke spoke in Irish as well as English. The four or five party leaders can all speak Irish fluently: Cowan, Kenny, Gilmore, Gormley, as can the Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil. All in all probably half the ceremony was conducted through the medium of Irish. A great achievement and so commonplace as to be let pass without comment.

The First Dáil was conducted almost entirely in Irish. Only 27 of the 73 Sinn Féin TDs were able to attend.

According to an article by the Irish Independent:

quote:

Significantly also, given the formative influence of the Gaelic League on that generation, Irish was the dominant medium of the proceedings. This meant, according to the Irish Times, that three-quarters of those present were "completely at sea''.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/enduring-legacy-of--the-first-dail-16 05854.html

1) The Irish Times at that time was a Unionist, pro British paper.

2) There were far more than the 27 deputies present to be counted in that "three quarters" - including English journalists.

3) Dúirt Cathal Brugha:
"B'éidir go bhfuil roinnt daoine i láthair ná tuigeann an Ghaeidhilg: de dheascaibh an tsóirt sin oideachais atá in Éirinn le fada, tá, foríor, a lán Éireannach ann ná tuigeann teanga a dtíre féin".

Rud atá fós fíor!


http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/en.toc.D.F.O.19190121.html

The Times has improved since!

http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/oireachtas/

http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/oireachtas/tir-gan-teanga-ni-i-1919.htm

"Only Israel has successfully gone down the path we are on."

I do caution on that, Israel was trying to assimilate a massive influx of various european immigrants who did not already speak the language dominant in that geographic area, nor modern Hebrew (which was new to everyone).

Ireland has the difficulty of having the entire country basically already fully fluent in one of the strongest languages in the world, that of its nearest neighbor, for centuries. It would be easier to revive Irish as a community language on a broad scale if the same were true for Ireland, but Irish actively has to combat english at every turn just to hold her own in an area, much less make headway.

Absolutely. I much prefer the Irish Times. The coverage and general respect it gives Irish is just one reason why.

Unlike the Indo. Which was the source of the "three quarters out to sea" comment via the old Irish Times.

It seems English became the main language shortly thereafter though. Once the bulk of the TDs were able to attend.

So many English teachers in Japan don't know how to speak properly and can't distinguish between their own dialect or slang and standard grammatical English.

Yea a lot of them are just out in the East for an easy ride. What nationalities have you found to be the worst?


the university had them each doing what they were strongest at and it worked well.

At a conversation about teaching and grammar (brought up by someone else -not me, I don't talk about such things in pubs) someone asked me "What's a preposition?"...


While grammar is sometimes better explained by non-natives, pronunciation, idioms, and fluency are better taught by native speakers.

I'd agree -sounds like a good tag team there


Native speakers also trained in those fields must be rarer than hen's teeth. Or are they

In my primary and secondary schools there were qualified natives (Conemara and South Donegal). Both have retired so I doubt there are too many young natives of their quality and training nowadays.


Cowan, Kenny, Gilmore, Gormley, as can the Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil

Mmmm. Keeny hyms and haws so much, some people may wonder on his fluency in any language...


"Gaeltacht Irish" or that it was "only Learner's Irish" is to disregard / disrespect / diss the huge commitment that huge numbers of people have to the Irish language

Let the government talk all they like -they are not responsible for the linguistic habits of the population. As for commitment, I don't see new Gaeltachtaí, so I question the purpose of the commitment. There has to be a goal, and there is no goal. 'Saving Irish' or 'Making Ireland Irish speaking again' are not goals, they are hopes


He's hinted that areas which currently fall under the minimum threshold (as historically defined...meaning less than 25% of the population being daily speakers) would be given a certain amount of time to "get into shape"

As every Gaeltacht is a breac-Ghaeltacht, '25%' effectively means it is part of the Galltacht

quote:

According to the most recent census, there were a grand total of twelve children in the age 3-4 range who speak Irish outside the education system. By "Galway City Gaeltacht" it's referring to places like Claregalway (Baile Chláir na Gaillimhe). For 5-9 year olds, 36 out of 650 (5.5%) spoke Irish outside of school. These are areas which should clearly be removed. It's no longer fair to impose language restrictions on communities like these. As Donncha Ó hÉallaithe (Conamara) has said, to do so would be to try and protect something which isn't there.

Thats probably why they didn't put that in Foinse, last March Foinse gave a report on the Gaeltacht of all daily speakers/grants in every Gaeltacht town and village they didn't put that place in.

Danny, do you know the daily or native speakers left in Acaill island? They left out Acaill too, it would be interesting to know.

A Shauimnheas, is as Cill Dara domh chomh maith. ;)

I am a German who has spoken Irish while having visited Ireland. Yes, there are certainly differences between Gaeltacht speakers and non-Gaeltacht speakers. At non-Gaeltacht speakers, theyinfluence of English is stronger, especially in their accent. But in my opinion the differences are not that grave if the non-Gaeltacht speaker is an active speaker from childhood. I have met Gaelscoil pupils where I have noticed only a slight difference to Gaeltacht persons. And they spoke Irish to each other outside school! They only spoke English with youngsters who do not speak fluent Irish. I have also seen in the Clubs of Conradh na Gaeilge in Galway and Dublin that Gaeltacht persons and urban persons mixed with each other. In order to avoid rivalities between Gaeltacht and non-Gaeltacht speakers one has to encourage Gaeltacht speakers to visit urban meetings...
Perhaps it is also useful having teachers from cities in Gaeltacht schools in order that Gaeltacht children become used to the speach of non-Gaeltacht speakers.

Another thing: I think Ireland should keep a special status also for areas, where there are higher numbers of language ability than the average, perhaps from 70 % on. For one ought to care that these numbers remain also if the majority does not use it in everyday life. By doing this, the possibility remains that the population later returns to Irish in their everyday life. People who do not like Irish-medium education or Irish only on signs, are free to move to other areas!

quote:

I am a German who has spoken Irish while having visited Ireland. Yes, there are certainly differences between Gaeltacht speakers and non-Gaeltacht speakers. At non-Gaeltacht speakers, theyinfluence of English is stronger, especially in their accent

I've noticed that too, a lot of learners (not all) from the Galltacht sound very English to me when talking in Irish.

I try my best to learn prononciation form native speakers, listening to raidió na Gaeltachta, taisce focal etc.

(Message edited by Trigger on January 22, 2009)

Maith an fear Alexander. Aontaim leat.

An raibh tú i nGlencolmcille an bhliain seo caite? An seinn tú an feadóg stáin?

quote:

Perhaps it is also useful having teachers from cities in Gaeltacht schools in order that Gaeltacht children become used to the speach of non-Gaeltacht speakers.

Probably the worst thing to do. If you do that, in a couple of years, Gaeltacht children won't pronounce properly, they'll get an English accent. Gaeltacht speakers hear enough of bad Irish to be used to understand it...

Aontaím le sin fosta!

A mhalairt is ceart a dhéanamh. Tumoideachas éigeantach d'ábhair mhúinteoirí - ar a laghad trí mhí den gcúrsa i bhfíor Ghaeltacht.

quote:

Danny, do you know the daily or native speakers left in Acaill island? They left out Acaill too, it would be interesting to know.

I can only say I never heard a word on my two stays on the island (totalling 9 full days). But I was mostly in the area known as 'The Valley' which is just outside the official gaeltacht boundary. The whole island used to be designated as such. But in the 1950s the western half was taken out.

There are two gaeltacht electoral districts (ED) on Acaill.
ED #29124 'Acaill' (which includes Inis Bigil) and ED #29136 'Dumha Éige'.

For 'Acaill' ED, 76.6% of the population aged 3 years and over claimed to be Irish speakers in the last census. However, only 12.7% of the population speak Irish daily outside of the education system.

For 'Dumha Éige', 68.7% of the age 3+ population claimed to be Irish speakers. 14% said they spoke it daily outside of school.

The total combined was 201 speakers who speak Irish daily outside of school.

Acaill:
Population 3+: 892
Irish speakers: 683
Daily speakers outside of school: 113

Dumha Éige:
Population 3+: 630
Irish speakers: 433
Daily speakers outside of school: 88

88 + 113 = 201

The most recent figures for the SLG (Scéim Labhairt na Gaeilge...basically a grant for Irish speaking households with school age children) that I have for Acaill is 2004/2005. 20 households applied. 4 received the full grant. I have the 2006/2007 ones but can't find Acaill on it.

Anyway, there you go.

Is there any update on the development of so-called urban Gaeltachtai in the Republic? (the gaeilgeoirs of Belfast clearly already rock). I remember reading about plans for one in Dublin, and have read about a small one in Cork and a group called "Gaillimh le Gaeilge"? After reading a book on reversing language shift, I'm more convinced that the urban space project is the/a way to go, and would like to hear that these kinds of projects are growing... GRMA

So would I. But I haven't heard anything new for a while.

I took part in one of the focus groups run by baile gaelach

http://www.bailegaelach.com/nuacht/nuacht.html

But they seem to have run out of stream - I believe the principals have had other issues to deal with.

Gaillimh le Gaeilge is directed at business rather than communities, see http://www.gleg.ie

What has happened is that several collegs have mini gaeltachts as part of their student accomodation.

quote:

After reading a book on reversing language shift, I'm more convinced that the urban space project is the/a way to go

Why? Why urban?

*A* way to go, certainly. Not *the* way to go. I imagine an urban gaeltacht would be an even more challenging environment for Irish than a [de facto rural] gaeltacht with its concentration of active and not so active speakers.

I'm all for urban gaeltachtaí, but not at the expense of the organic gaeltacht. They are irreplaceable. Some seem to think the demise of the gaeltacht is a foregone conclusion and that somehow these urban communities have to be set up ASAP to replace them. I'm not sure.

At any rate, the sooner the official gaeltacht borders are trimmed down so that they at least approach a true representation of the linguistic reality on the ground, the better.

Thanks for that Danny, I expected it to be lower.

GRMA a chara.

I'm for urban Gaeltachtaí also and not at the expense of the traditional Gaeltacht. Money talks. Money decides whether you live in a nice hillside villa overlooking the sea at Dalkey south of Dublin or in a crowded local authority scheme between the waste disposal plant and the rendering factory somewhere west of Dublin. Planners decide where the factories will go, where the local authority housing will go, where the halting site for travellers will be, and where the expensive houses with big spacious rooms and gardens will go. Provision could be made in all of these areas for those Irish-speakers whether reared in the Gaeltacht or not to live in an area where Irish was gaining ground.

If Government told the planners to include one special scheme in each county to provide accommodation for Irish speakers relatively close to each other and close to the scoil lán-Ghaelach where small inducements would be offered to facilitate the establishment of an Irish-speaking community -- where "fáilte roimh mhuintir na Gaeltachta" would be the norm it would be easy to have a naíonra, a Gaelscoil or two, a bilingual corner shop, an Áras Oidhreachta le hamharclann, siopa leabhar is físeán, agus seomraí cruinnithe, caifé tae is mianraí do dhéagóirí, religious services in Irish if anyone wished to join up with one of the religions etc. It would be easily done dá mbeadh an toil ann. Soon there would be other townland names to add to Gleann Maghair, Bóthar Shaw, Ráth Cairn, Baile Gib, Bealach Conglais, Cill Mhochriodóg and such places where Gaeltachtaí were set up in the past. Some almost by accident. No account being taken of the language issue.

Many of these services are provided by commercial alcohol dealers for profit. Maximising profit being their sole aim and objective they are only interested in the mass market. Money talks and they only understand money talk. If parents don't want their teen-age sons and daughters frequenting the pub they must provide an alternative. The Irish language movement should seize the opportunity and provide a pleasant enjoyable stimulating environment in which youngsters can enjoy themselves, learn and practise their Irish, and build up happy memories.

From my experience with the scoileanna lán-Ghaeilge or Gaelscoileanna there are scores of families in many areas of all our cities and towns who know some Irish and would welcome the chance of using it if they knew of other Irish-speaking families in their neighbourhood. Local authorities and central Government should provide those opportunities in every centre of population. I am thinking of the Leeds Irish Arts Centre, Áras Crónáin, Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann music centres, Clubanna an Chumann Lúthchleas Gael and other Heritage Centres where Irish should always be uppermost. It should be a condition of any state funding to such organisations that some or all staff be Irish-speaking. I remember writing post cards in a community hall somewhere in the Hebridies / Inse Gall in Scotland where there was table tennis for youngsters and hot tea for tourists like myself who needed to get in out of the rain. The lady in charge that day had fluent Gaidhlig. "Chan eil Béurla sam bith agam" was her response to my compliment.

For me the glass is always half full! I look forward to a time when there will be other townland names to add to Gleann Maghair, Bóthar Shaw, Ráth Cairn, Baile Gib, Bealach Conglais, Cill Mhochriodóg and such places where Gaeltachtaí were set up in the past. Some almost by accident. No account being taken of the language issue.

They are also opening up a Culturlann a Gaeltacht quarter in county Derry this year.

Taidhgín,

Good post. Many of these same ideas were proposed way back in 1925/26 by various people to the Gaeltacht Commission. Some even suggested offering discounts to people who conducted their business (in shops, for example) through the medium of Irish. What do you think?

Can you tell us more about Gleann Maghair, Bealach Conglais and Cill Mhochriodóg? I'm well familiar with Ráth Cairn, Baile Ghib and Bóthar Seoighe, but these are new to me.

Go raibh maith agat, Danny2007.

Gleann Maghair was a scheme organised in Cork somewhere near the school "Scoil an Phiarsaigh" I think. Back in the 60s there was some publicity about it. As far as I know it enjoyed a certain amount of success in attracting a number of Irish-speaking families to come and live there although it is nobody's business but their own how things turned out after that.

Bealach Conglais is Baltinglass, Co Wicklow, and just outside the town a number of families from Erris in Co Mayo received land there, native speakers from Ceathrú Thaidhg. Some sold the land and returned home or went to England. Others remained and are still there. As far as I know no provision was made to encourage them to keep on speaking Irish.

Cill Mhochriodóg or Kilmacraddock in Co Kildare is about two miles from Leixlip and six or seven families were given land there by the Coimisiún na Talún / The Land Commission. No provision was made to support the language but a number of the families have succeeded in keeping Irish alive and are involved in the local Gaelscoileanna and Comhaltas etc.

Many other areas of the country would have received migrant transfers from the Gaeltacht during the years of the operation of the Land Commission which does not appear to have considered the language at all in its decisions. Progressive farmers who would make good use of the land were what they required. I do not know when the Land Commission ceased its operations but the idea could be pursued by the language movement -- especially in the towns and cities, providing affordable housing in particular areas served by Gaelscoileanna etc.

An effort is being made in the universities in Gaillimh, Corcaigh, agus Baile Átha Cliath to reserve some accommodation for Irish speaking students and to subsidise it. That seems to be working well and succeeding in creating friendships etc in an Irish-speaking community. Ireland is not a totalitarian society and whether they speak Irish or English or any other language is none of our business. Obviously there is a good chance they will speak Irish since they all know it well.

A Thaidhgín, that is very interesting. It is clear that some of the systems worked and some didn't.

You have said "it is nobody's business but their own how things turned out after that." and " Ireland is not a totalitarian society". While that is very true, any system that requires tax-payers' money must remain transparent and true to its intended purpose.

Clearly, a system that encourages Irish-speaking families to move away from the Gaeltacht and then allows them to sell the land and move overseas is detrimental to the Gaeltacht, to the new scheme, and also diverts funds away from where they might have been better utilised.

If people are receiving money to speak Irish, then that is exactly what they should be doing with it. Otherwise limited funds are spread too thin and the system as a whole is placed in danger of collapse.

Taxpayers may be willing to support the promotion of the language but they don't want to see that money wasted on handouts to non-speakers abusing the system.

Therefore, it is everyone's business to ensure that those who claim money to speak Irish actually do so, and transaprency is also important to be able to evaluate properly which systems are working and which ones not.

(Message edited by breandán on January 24, 2009)

"Some even suggested offering discounts to people who conducted their business (in shops, for example) through the medium of Irish. What do you think?"

I don't think that would have gone down with the likes of the family owned business and business community in Ireland. You know the type, in each provincial town the ones who look at your suspiciously and seem afraid that their customers are 'up to no good' when they enter. Conservative to the core, they would never agree to such things.

In an Ireland where concern for getting money extended to the concentration camp lite environments of the Magdelen laundries, do you think they would have the good will to support such re-Gaelicization endeavors? In another example of how bad Ireland was at the time, a commissioned Goverment report into sexual mores in Ireland, found it to have the higest rates of child prostitution in Europe, and syphilis was rampant. There were many other bad things in the report not relevant here, but it gives and indication that after Independace, things went back to business as usual -sour, sour, sour...


"it is nobody's business but their own how things turned out after that. "

Why? Is it is secret! So if one of them becomes a sucess, they should keep their experiences quiet?


"Ireland is not a totalitarian society "

No but it is fairly strong on conformity -no need for a regime when the people are doing the job for you. All around the world there is group think, and it matters not what political system they use.

Is cosúil a Thaidhgín, bail ó Dhia ort, nach léitear a leath dá scríobhfas tú, nó má léitear, nach súitear ach leath an tsanais as.

Go raibh maith agat, a Smac_muiri. Is dócha gurb ea. Tuigeann Tadhg Taidhgín! Ní miste liom. Ag iarraidh cúpla smaoineamh breise a chur sa tsiúl atáim. Tá an taoille ag gluaiseacht inár dtreo más mall féin é.

Regarding "Nobody's business but their own"

I am not suggesting people be paid to speak Irish. Nor am I suggesting that authority be given to some official pipsqueaks to invade people's privacy. Every family has its own concerns apart from language, illness, Down's Syndrome babies, unemployment, relationships, crime, drugs, etc etc Life isn't easy in a recession but if the opportunity is created to speak Irish in a community or in an urban neighbourhood people will avail of it. If there is any sort of surveillance involved people will run a mile from it and it will be a non-starter. Presumably if families choose to avail of whatever scheme might be involved they will have to be approved at the very beginning but that is the end of assessment. Non-judgemental surveys can be conducted after five or ten years to see how things turned out but without recrimination if only a limited improvement is recorded. The planners can try harder next time.

Yes, a Thaidhgín, I see what you mean, now. It is a thin line between transparency and invasion of privacy and as you say no one will come on board if they are constantly monitored.

Sorry if I have appeared to be attacking your comments, it was my intention only to question them for clarification. There is so much to absorb in what you have written that even if the rest of us have only understood "half of the gist" we will still be richer for it. Those who didn't ask questions may have understood more than those who did ask questions, or perhaps they only _think_ they did.

I think the comments made by parents that the children of Gaelscoileanna tend not to speak Irish outside the schoolgrounds shows the importance of parental participation (which is what this thread is primarily about) and the need for other venues out in the community. You have given some very valuable examples and insights from your home environment and the wider community.

I for one appreciate the efforts of such organizations as Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann since it was their Brisbane group that got me started on the road to both Irish language and music.

Breandán, thanks for your message above. I didn't take your contribution as an attack of any kind. In offline conversation people will seek clarification and my ideas are only kites in the air hoping someone well placed in National or Local Government may notice and act. Language enthusiasts far younger than me may also see an area worth considering for support.

Almost forty years ago Conradh na Gaeilge issued an A4 page of instructions on how to go about establishing an all-Irish school: how to approach the Patron, the Department of Education, the local community, and parents. That page fell into my hands. I read it and being young and foolhardy set about the task. We succeeded. The school was established and has had over 400 students attending for most of the years since.

One Department official said to us "You are pushing on an open door..."

If only establishing "Irish-friendly neighbourhoods" were as easy.

quote:

One Department official said to us "You are pushing on an open door..."

N'fheadar an bhfuil sin fós fíor? Tá beagán amhrais orm.

Taidhgín,

Wow. Forty years.

How would you compare things then to now? Would you say (if such a guesstimation is even possible) that most students over the years have retained Irish over the years in their day to day lives?

I'd say most have lost it through lack of use. (I was a kid 40 years ago ...)

I'd say only those whose families spoke Irish retained it.

There is a hole into which most speakers fall after education, where Irish rusts through lack of opportunity to speak it.

Danny2007: Things are much better now. Is féidir liom beagán Gaeilge a léamh agus a scríobh gach lá ar an idirlíon. Is féidir liom éisteacht le caint na Gaeltachta ar RTÉ Raidio na Gaeltachta agus féachaint ar chlárach TG4. Tá níos mó scoláirí na riamh ag freastal ar choláistí samhraidh sa Ghaeltacht. Perhaps my viewpoint is coloured by our own family experience where most of the middle-aged and younger people speak Irish -- when they want to or when it is spoken to them. Most of them know it and can speak it.

Aonghus: There is another group of people besides Irish-speaking families who have retained their Irish and added to it: teachers, journalists, media people, translators, secretaries and PAs in companies that use Irish of which there are more than a few. There is a considerable amount of employment available to people with Irish. A second and third generation of former students of na Gaelscoileanna are now teaching maths, science, history and geography and all school subjects in their own former schools. A huge number of them are teaching in Primary Schools and Naíonraí. There is an element of self-generating growth to be seen. Unfortunately "volunteering" is diminishing. Society is undergoing change. Great institutions that supported Irish are no more. I am thinking especially of Na Bráithre Críostaí who -- despite the few bad apples -- did trojan work for education among the poor in Ireland and embraced the revival of Irish with a heart and a half.
As I said before the glass is half full. Bímis dóchasach dearfach. Má dhéanann an chéad ghlún eile oiread is a rinne na glúnta a chuaigh rompu ní baol don Ghaeilge.

"There is a hole into which most speakers fall after education, where Irish rusts through lack of opportunity to speak it."

A hAonghus,

Tá sin mo mothaig le Fraincis sa Ceanada freisin. :/ Foghlaimíonn na páisti Fraincis ar scoil, ach cailleann siad ar ball.

Taidghín,

is eol dom sin. Ach is é mo thaithí gur beag duine a mbíonn gaeilge mar chuid dá ghairm a labhraíonn go soisialta í. Ach seans gurbh ormsa an locht ansin!

Is fíor dhuit go bhufil rudaí i bhfad níos fearr ná le linn m'óige, agus táim dóchasach go dtiocfaidh tuilleadh feabhais.

Freagra díreach ar cheist dhíreach a bhí sa mhéid thuas.

Mo léan, tá an ceart agat, a Aonghuis.

Anois tá tú ag tagairt d'úsáid na Gaeilge agus na réimsí den saol ina n-úsáidfidh daoine í.

An chéad chéim an teanga a fhoghlaim agus í a bheith ar do thoil agat go blasta liofa. An dara céim í a úsáid agus í a labhairt le daoine a mheasfá Gaeilge a bheith acu. Tá sé éasca Gaeilge a labhairt le do lucht aitheantais ach ní mór nath éigin Gaeilge a shleamhnú isteach sa Bhéarla chun leide a thabhairt don strainséir go mbeifeá sásta Gaeilge a labhairt dá bhfeilfeadh sin, mar a dhéanann na Másúnaigh (Free-Masons) a mbíonn comharthaí agus gothaí rúin eatarthu.

Bíonn náire ar an-chuid daoine an teanga a labhairt in aon chor agus drogall orthu dá réir. Mar sin féin má tharlaíonn eachtra éigin i mbaile iargúlta éigin i lár na tíre gheobhaidh RTÉ TG4 duine nó beirt leis an scéal a insint i nglan-Ghaeilge chruinn. Is aoibhinn liom breathnú ar an Nuacht gach lá i ngeall ar sin. [air sin???]

Sin fáth ar luaigh mé i dteachtaireacht eile gurbh fhiú imeachtaí iarscoile réamhthábhairne a chur ar siúl don aos óg 13-18 bliana. Bíonn Béarlóirí an tsacair ar a ndícheall, Béarlóirí na gclubanna rugair, Béarlóirí an Chumainn Lúthchleas Gael, Béarlóirí Chomhaltais, Béarlóirí na bparóistí eaglasta, cá bhfuil lucht na Gaeilge? An Conradh? Feachtas? An Comhchaidreamh? Gael-Linn? An bhfuilid uilig ar aon-aois liomsa ag míogarnach cois teallaigh faoin saol a bhíodh ann fadó agus sinn idir chodladh is dúiseacht?

Caitear a lán d'airgead na Gaeilge ar imeachtaí nach mbaineann leis an teanga ach ar éigin: ceol, spórt, na healaíona is na meáin nach bhfuil teanga i gceist in aon chor iontu. Tá géarghá le clubanna fóillíochta do dhéagóirí, clubanna nach mbeadh ag brath ar ioncam ólacháin ó bheár agus a chothódh labhairt na Gaeilge de shíor le díospóireachtaí, drámaí, comórtais teanga, tráth na gceist, claisceadal, agallaimh beirte agus lúibíní, agus a chuirfeadh scléip ar siúl trí mheán na teanga.

Ró-fhurasta atá sé airgead na Gaeilge a chaitheamh ar fhoirgnimh mhóra, oifigí galánta, carranna dea-mhéine, agus ar chostais taistil is mhaireachtála. Is deacair áfach é a chaitheamh ar an teanga féin is ar lucht a labhartha.

Ar ndóigh cá bhfios cad air a chaitear airgead na hUltaise? :-))

Speaking of teaching the "funny words and phrases" of Irish to youngsters.. I have half Irish ancestry, trying occasionally to learn more Irish, have grandchildren , one of whom., a four-year old, who is a bit boisterous ...so in his verbal entanglements with his older brother... I had taught him to say "Eist!" so that he could get at least one word of Irish learned and use it to get some control over his brother :)
Now I want to teach him another phrase which I beleive is a "curse" or etc....Am I correct that "May you be eaten by the cat!" is "Go n-ithe an cat thu"
And yes, I will teach him to also give his brother a blessing besides giving him a curse so that my son will not say to me "Now,... Mom."
"Eist" was a great word to teach him as he would come out with it at some of the funniest times...but am thinking that the curse sentence may be even funnier..as they don't have a cat.. but do have a dog..so may have to substitute "madra".

quote:

Ró-fhurasta atá sé airgead na Gaeilge a chaitheamh ar fhoirgnimh mhóra, oifigí galánta, carranna dea-mhéine, agus ar chostais taistil is mhaireachtála. Is deacair áfach é a chaitheamh ar an teanga féin is ar lucht a labhartha.

Ní airgead atá de dhíth, ach misneach agus gníomh.

Freastalaímse ar Chiorcal comhrá i mBÁC atá ar bun gach ré Máirt le dornán blianta anois. Faoi láthair, is i gcaifé an Alliance Francais atáimid, ó tharla gur theip ar an dá caifé gaelach i lár na cathrach (scéal ann fhéin).

Idir deichniúr ag scór ag cíoradh cúrsaí an tsaoil ansin.

Ansin tugann dornán againn aghaidh ar teach tábhairne. Diaidh ar ndiaidh tá a gcuid Gaeilge ar filleadh ag lucht freastail ann.

Deamhan pingin d'airgead Rialtas sa ghnó sin, agus deamhan gá leis.

Agus féach an Druma Mór - arís, níl pingin d'airgead Stáit i gceist.

Jeanette
Go n-ithe an chat thú would be fine

Ósta ar an abhainn in aice le Droichead de hÍde i Sligeach tuairim 5.30 gach Aoine ag imirt an-tionchair ar chustaiméirí eile.

Toigh Oireachtaigh, an Phríomhshráid, Cluainín Uí Ruairc tuairim 21.00 gach Luan ag déanamh maith go leor.

Idir 6.30 - 7.30 gach ré Déardaoin i Leabharlann an Chontae ag Droim Seanbhó, Co. Liatroma. Roinnt bheag ag tarraingt ann.

Bíonn comhrá eile Toigh Ellen i Machaire Eabha, tuaisceart Shligigh ar an Máirt ach ní raibh mé amuigh ann (mar go mbíonn ceann eile níos gaire dom an oíche chéanna).

Molaim caife le solas an lae le haghaidh tionchar a imirt ar an líon is mó daoine. (Tugaim faoi deara am 'réamhthábhairne' luaite ag Taidhgín thuas) Ní chosnaíonn sé tada ach iarracht ó bheirt nó triúr lena chur ar bun i dtosach.

Rud eile a imríonn an-tionchar, bean óg Ghaeilge sa siopa áitiúil ag deireadh na seachtaine. Tá togha na Gaeilge aici faoin am seo, tharla ar coláiste tríú leibhéal le dhá bhliain anois í. Labhraímid Gaeilge i gcónaí agus feicim daoine ag cur sonradh, le meas, ann. Is oscailt súile don phobal an Ghaeilg a bheith aici chomh paiteanta sin is go bhfuil sí in ann spraoi a bhaint as a labhairt gan chuimhne ar a bhfuil thart uirthi.

Baineann alt Phól inné le hábhar:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/anteangabheo/2009/0128/1224240095208.html

a chéile a aithint an dúshlán is mó

Grma a Aonghuis, ní raibh sé feicthe agam.

Tá a leithéid agam le caitheamh ag amanna solúnta ach san am solúnta a rachaidh mé á chuardach, ní bheidh mé in ann teacht air. Ciallaíonn sé sin, go bhfuil sé agam, ar throigh gan tuairisc éigin.

An té nach gcaitheann é, ar mo nós féin, bíodh sé aige nó a mhalairt, ba cheart dó focal Gaeilge éigin a labhairt le gach éinne. Oíche dhorcha le taobh abhainn i gCathair na Mart, níor theastaigh uaim duine i mo leith a scanradh le Gaeilg aduain agus labhair mé i mBéarla ag fiafraigh bealaigh de. Togha na Gaeilge a bhí aige tharla gur Gaeilgeoir aithnidiúil an fear céanna!

Bhíodh ceann agam agus mé san déaga, agus sean chóta airm á chaitheamh agam.

An príomh chúis ná chaithim ceann anois ná go mbeadh sé doiligh é shá i gcóta gore-tex!

I agree Antaine:Israel is a poor analogue.A very untypical situation.Catalan would be a better example for us to follow.It was suppressed for ages and anyway everyone can speak Spanish,which is a global tongue.I have a friend who went to live in Barcelona in the early 80s,she already spoke Spanish.Now her Catalan is nearly as good,all the young folk speak it but some of the grandparents are a bit rusty,the exact opposite to our set up.

Ditto with Faoroese ( which I didn't even know existed!).It was all but extinct 50 years ago.Welsh in doing quite well and Basque seems to be in trouble.There's obviously a right and a wrong way to do these things.
Slán agus beannacht.