They may not want to keep their own language alive at home, but the Catholics of Wales (largely ethnic Irish) seem to be learning Cymraeg.
http://bbctags.headshift.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.home&url=1/low/wales/3161 706.stm

O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau-O may our langauge endure. I'm learning Welsh and am passionate about Welsh culture-language, rugby and singing. They are proud of Cymraeg/Welsh Irish people are not proud of the Irish language.

I heard that in Wales all social classes spoke Welsh -- from the Parson to the Pauper -- in the towns as well as the countryside.

In Ireland what with Plantations, 16th Century, ethnic cleansing "to Hell or to Connacht", 17th Century, and the snooty dominance of the English or English-speaking Ascendency Class "Lucht an Chinsil", with whom the Catholic Church tried to assimilate, 18th & 19th Centuries, Irish speakers found themselves among the poorest of the poor. Over centuries they came to believe they had reason to be ashamed of their language and their very existence. They viewed their lack of English as a handicap.

Thankfully d'imigh sin is tháinig seo, and the 20th Century saw a resurgence of pride and interest in the study of Irish and a desire to learn it again. Now it has become the second language of educated people in all parts of the country some of whom are trying to pass it on to their children in Gaelscoileanna -- and more luck to them. Go n-éirí go geal leo!

The involuntary speaking of Irish by those who know nothing but Irish is diminishing with the Fíor-Ghaeltacht. Probably less than 25,000 people still speak Irish having never really made the shift to English. Many tens of thousands more speak some Irish in their homes however and Irish now has a foothold in many domains apart from the domestic and community such as education and media. A glance at www.focal.ie will reveal what a powerful language it is, a language unlikely to be degraded and abandoned again. It is very much part of "being Irish" now. Beir bua agus beannacht.

The Irish are very proud of their language.


There were just more factors (and severe ones at that) restricting its survival.

Ireland could certainly learn a thing or two from Welsh speakers about language maintenance and promotion.

But still, only about 20% of Welsh people speak the language habitually, if I recall correctly.

The fact that this is considered a "success" says it all.

Yes, it is considered a success simply because there has been a percentage increase across the population over the past 20 years or so (about 2% - from 18% to 20%, if I remember correctly). There has only been a small revival in the south (eg Caerdydd), but we're yet to see the fruits of the Welsh-medium schools that have boomed in recent years.

But visit north-west Wales some time - Welsh is the community language in most towns, which is something that cannot be said about many of the remaining Gaeltachtaí. The Welsh experience of the 'Bro Gymraeg' is much more extensive than that of the Gaeltachtaí - and this is remarkable because there are no official borders for the Bro, just a common recognition that large portions of North and West Wales function on a bilingual basis. It is a rural and underdeveloped part of Wales, with a small population, and I wonder if there is any justification in comparing it in size and population to the Gaeltachtaí at the time of Irish independence (perhaps the Comisiún na Gaeltachta report of 1926) - for one reason or another, the Welsh have done much better than the Irish, even without independence.

In my humble opinion, with the passing of the Welsh Language Acts, the continued existence of Welsh is safe (in the north at least, where c. 70% of the population is Welsh speaking) - the challenge on a national scale is/will be in the densely-populated south.

(Message edited by roibeard_an_tastrálach on January 15, 2009)

(Message edited by roibeard_an_tastrálach on January 15, 2009)

(Message edited by roibeard_an_tastrálach on January 15, 2009)

''The Irish are very proud of their language.''

I don't think that is very true, but there loads of Irish people that is proud of Gaeilge.

(Message edited by trigger on January 16, 2009)

Ní thuigim uait, a Thrigger. An é gur dóigh leat nach mbíonn Éireannaigh-mar-fhine bródúil as an nGaeilge, nó gur dóigh leat nach í "a dteanga" í?

Robeard_an_tastrálach 27% of primary schools in Wales are Welsh medium and 22% of secondary schools so Welsh is strong in education and also the big difference in my opinion is that Welsh is also an urban language spoken widely in large towns such as Pwllheli,Caernarfon, Carmarthen, Llanelli and Aberystwyth. But I personally dont think it is language success at 20% speaking Welsh. I also think its a waste of money promoting Welsh in the likes of Newport Merthyr Tydfil etc in South Wales. Th I've been to North Wales to Pwllheli and was amazed and delighted that everybody spoke Welsh in a town of 5000 people.

"Yn enw'r Tad, a'r Mab, a'r Ysbryd Glân. Amen"

Seriously though, there is a more positive attitude towards the native language in Wales, most significantly among the young. The language use among the younger is increasing according to the figures.
Although there are undoubtedly Welsh-speaking converts to Catholicism the fact that some Irish descendants in Wales are learning the language is remarkable.
The Irish in Ireland are just as capable of learning their own language as the Irish in Wales are at learning Welsh; the attitude is that Irish is irrelevant. Can something positive be done to instill language pride and language loyalty in young Irish people? Isn't that the problem?

It's also spoken in urban areas. Indeed, it's stronger in urban areas in parts of Wales.

The support that the Church provided should not be underestimated.

(Message edited by Danny2007 on January 16, 2009)

Thanks for the figures Draig Goch, I didn't have them at hand. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that one should be satisfied with the figure of 20% - it's just that it is comparatively successful in contrast to other attempts at preserving/growing languages. Irish as one unfortunate example...

Mind you, even in the north the use of Welsh can be patchy - I didn't hear anyone in Holyhead speak Welsh (though I wasn't there long admittedly - Caernarfon was quite a different story). The first thing I did in Holyhead was to attend Mass (with an Irishman as their parish priest) - I don't recall Welsh services being offered in that parish (St Mary's was it?), but I could be wrong.

Actually just went to check the parish newsletter, which I kept as a souveneir. No Welsh services - just a 'Croeso i pawb' (Welcome to everyone) on the front cover! Funny little town, Holyhead - didn't strike me as a typical town of the north (the lack of Welsh was only a part of it). Probably has something to do with its location and the Dublin ferry!