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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (January- February) » Archive through January 25, 2009 » Petty anti Irish language stupidity « Previous Next »

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7894
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 08:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is deacair aon ní eile a rá faoi:

http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=4519&viewby=date

quote:

A council has been forced to remove a number of 'Stop' signs in the Gaeltacht, because they are written in Irish.

Signs with 'Stad' -- Irish for 'halt' -- have been put up at locations around the Donegal village of Kilcar, but they will now be replaced by 'Stop' signs.

The man who made the complaints, who has a holiday home in the village, said there was no mandatory sign in the Department of the Environment traffic signs manual with 'Stad' on it.


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Trigger
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Username: Trigger

Post Number: 282
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

They can't even have it bilingual?

Kilcar was the first Gaeltacht village I went to in Donegal, and in all fairness it isn't the most Irish speaking place you can go to, its only a couple of minutes in to the offical Gaeltacht from the non Gaeltacht town Killybegs.

Gaeilge go deo!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7896
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The problem is with the regulations, which only foresee "STOP" as the text on an octoganal red sign.

But for crying out loud that this is the only sign of that colour and shape, and the difference between STOP and STAD is neglible. So what is this guy worried about?

This is more of the insanity about signs in Irish leading tourists astray.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7898
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

See here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1962/en/si/0171.html#zzsi171y1962

Sín./Sign 202 is teh one in question.

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 65
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

'I've travelled extensively and have always taken a keen interest in road signage. In every country -- even those using the Cyrillic alphabet which doesn't have the letter S -- 'Stop' signs appear at junctions with major roads.'



The above contention by the complainant may be correct for the countries he has been to, but doesn't hold throughout the world. Japan has internationalized road signs, but no English/Roman letters appear on any road signage. They do not even use the red octagon; in Japan it is the triangle that we use for "yield/give way" with the Japanese word for "stop".

There are plenty of people on this site who live in other countries. Can anyone confirm signage such as the red octagon with a different word in it? Or a different sign for "stop" as in Japan? Wouldn't the French use "Arrête(z)" or something similar?

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Ismiseséamus
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Username: Ismiseséamus

Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 02:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In Catalunya every notice (even menus) must be in Catalan as well as Spanish.

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 582
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 02:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá mé théis na peictiúirí a bhreathnú suas ar Wiki, ní úsáidtear aon fhocla sa Rúis ar an gcomhartha seo – circle bán le imeall dearg atá againn.

'Na trí rud is deacra a thoghadh – bean, speal agus rásúr'

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 286
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 02:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Isn't "stop" bilingual?

Lars

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7900
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 04:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá, ach tá "stad" níos coitianta ó thuaidh.

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 961
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 05:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Beidh súil amach agam amárach ar na comharthaí bóithre anseo san Eilvéis. (Ní bhím ag tiomáint anseo agus mar sin is beag aird a thugaim orthu.)

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Danny2007
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Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 209
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

this is the only sign of that colour and shape, and the difference between STOP and STAD is neglible.


Exactly. I see no reason for people to complain about this.

When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone.
- Daltaí.com

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 958
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

here in Korea, it is 'STOP' on a triangle, the triangle I think is red with white or yellow lettering. neither me nor my Korean housemate can remember, so I will say when I see it again. Anyway, they use the English.

Whoever made the complaint is a real spa altogether. His hole wants to be knocked out of him with kicks to the arse.

As I have said before, the British spent countless pounds on administration here thru English when it was completely impractical, but irish people are afraid of a few signs in Irish...

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Danny2007
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Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 211
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The argument is probably something along the lines of: "The vast majority of the population in Ireland speak English as a first language. Most visitors to Ireland have some English as well so it's best to have uniformity on our road signs. Safety first an' all." etc etc etc

I still disagree with the decision, but a few Stad signs in a place like Kilcar (soon to be jettisoned from the Gaeltacht?) won't chance anything.

Equal prominence for Irish placenames on signage throughout the country and Irish only in the Gaeltacht is preferable. And that seems to be the direction the gov. is heading anyway.

When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone.
- Daltaí.com

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 209
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What's on stop signs in Wales?

Séamus Ó Murċaḋa

Go mBeannuiġe Dia Éire Naoṁṫa!

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Danny2007
Member
Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 212
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:57 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Are such signs even traditional in fíor-ghaeltachtaí? I've never seen any in those parts of Donegal, Kerry, Galway...

Lots of Taisteal go mall on the pavement, though.

When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone.
- Daltaí.com

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 71
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

This may be the basis of the complainant's argument:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_traffic_signs

UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Poland have all opted for English "Stop".
(><)

I think the Welsh use the verb "stopio" anyway, so imperative "stop" gets used there. Had a look and couldn't find anything. Other Welsh signs are bilingual:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/livinginwales/sites/howdoisay/roadsigns/

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 393
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Mae'r ffurf orchmynnol o "stopio" yn "stopia" neu, yn y lluosog, "stopiwch". Nid gair Gymraeg yw "stop".

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 74
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 12:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Diolch yn fawr, a Dhomhnaillín. I knew the polite imperative was "stopiwch" but wasn't sure about the familiar form, then I saw a bilingual sign that said "stop" in the Welsh part so I assumed "stop" must be okay:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caernarfon_stop_sign.jpg

Unfortunately, all my Welsh dictionaries, etc., are still in a box somewhere. :-(

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Fintan
Member
Username: Fintan

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 01:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Oh.For.The.Love.Of.God

Ochón.In.Ainm.Dé.


Síos leis na begrudgers!

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.

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Eoin
Member
Username: Eoin

Post Number: 229
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 08:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá mé ag ceapadh go bhfuil comhartha "STAD" ar an mbóthar isteach go dtí an Coimisinéir Teanga ag Baile an tSagairt sa Spidéal!

Nuacht Ghaeltacht na Gaillimhe agus Deisceart Mhuigheó http://anghaeltacht.net/ce

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7910
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 08:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

An bóthar príobháideach atá i gceist? Bheidh sin neamhspléach ar an I.R. a chloí comharthai Chill Chartha.

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 396
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 11:11 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Unfortunately, all my Welsh dictionaries, etc., are still in a box somewhere.

www.geiriadur.net
www.cs.cf.ac.uk/fun/welsh/LexiconForms.html

De réir na hiontrálacha atá sna foclóirí sin ní raibh an ceart agam agus is focal Breatnaise atá i gceist t'réis an tsaoil cé gur ainmfhocal é in ionad foirme briathartha.

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Curiousfinn
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Username: Curiousfinn

Post Number: 158
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 11:21 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cuimhním de mo ógánach go raibh "SEIS" scríobhtha ar síneacha "STOP" anseo... is litir amháin gíorra ná "SEISO" (seas) atá ann, agus tá sé feichte ar síneacha ag iontrálacha do bhóithre príobháideacha anois is arís fós.

Tine, siúil liom!

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 77
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 11:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat os ucht na nasc sin, a Dhomhnaillín.

Is aisteach an rud é nach scríobhthar "Stopiwch" ann, mar breathnaím go scríobhthar "Ildiwch" os cionn "Give Way" ar chomharthaí "Géill Slí" sa Bhreatain Bheag:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/livinginwales/sites/howdoisay/roadsigns/index.shtml?2

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Curiousfinn
Member
Username: Curiousfinn

Post Number: 159
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 05:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gabh mo leithscéal. Táim bómánta. Níl ógánach agam. B)

Cuimhním síneacha "SEIS" de mo bhlianta luaithe, cúig+ bhlianta is fiche ó shin.

Tine, siúil liom!

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 80
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 09:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does the following mean the problem was resolved in favour of the Irish "Stad"?:

http://www.daltai.com/discus/messages/21/36816.html?1231978562

Gaeilge go deo!

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Angmar
Member
Username: Angmar

Post Number: 64
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 11:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

There are plenty of people on this site who live in other countries. Can anyone confirm signage such as the red octagon with a different word in it? Or a different sign for "stop" as in Japan? Wouldn't the French use "Arrête(z)" or something similar?



In Montréal (Québec, Canada), we use the word "Arrêt" on the red octagon. So far, no one has had trouble decoding the secret language/meaning of the sign despit the fair amount of anglophones and foreign people who speak a different language in the region!

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Fintan
Member
Username: Fintan

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 12:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

No matter how far some people 'travel', they never set foot outside of their own blinkered minds. And most of the time, when they open their fat, ignorant mouths it's usually just to change feet.

"Hmm. What a puzzler. It's an intersection/crossroad/junction/roundabout/place of obvious imminent danger etc..... And LOOK! There's a BIG RED SIGN. I wonder if it's some kind of warning? Should I think for myself? Oh no, not I, the intrepid tourista-from-Hell. Oh no, not I, the vicious little grey-flannel-minded petit bourgeois bureauNazi from BallyFeckAll who hates that 'ould Oirish' tongue wit' a passion! No! I shall NEVER SURRENDER! I shall drive my automobile - my giant throbbing steel/chrome/plastic penis extension/ego-shield - at FULL SPEED THROUGH that incomprehensible foreign-lettered jibberish non-proper-nice-Mummy-Tongued sign! I am impervious! The Lady/Gentleman/Muppet is NOT FOR TURNING!"


Really. Shooting through the temple on prime-time television... it's just too GOOD for SOME people.

Now, for a nice refreshing glass of cold water. And a good lie down.

Thank you all, good night and good luck! (Apologies to Ed Murrow, and to Peter Finch in 'Network')

Normal service has now been resumed.

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.

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Aaron
Member
Username: Aaron

Post Number: 140
Registered: 04-2005


Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 03:06 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Can anyone confirm signage such as the red octagon with a different word in it?



Is maith liom an ceann seo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelturton/450424045/sizes/o/

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 81
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 04:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

TING! (Sin é an rud atá scríofa air.)

An-suimiúil ar fad, Aaron. Is maith liomsa é freisin agus an Béarla thíos. Síos leis an mBéarla, deirim!

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Ormondo
Member
Username: Ormondo

Post Number: 172
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 10:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sure-how-could-people-know-at-all-at-all-what-was-meant-by-that-sign?

Is é ainm an ghalair ná an "comhainmneoir-is-lú-achas".

Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, January 19, 2009 - 09:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The gentleman who complained about the use of 'Stad' on a stop sign within a Gaeltacht district may have done the Irish language a three-fold service:

1. The solution requires one arm of government administration to talk to another, a thing never easy to get started.

2. It's surely also a reminder for whichever government department is responsible for road signage, and for the local county and urban councils, to review the relevant laws and by-laws so that any inadvertent clash between Irish language policy and the law is obviated.

3. If enough of such anomalies are brought forcibly to the attention of the relevant authorities we may one day see a bureaucracy in Ireland that is conditioned to include the Irish language factor in all government business and decision-making as a matter of routine rather than the continual 'patching up' jobs by a system that still operates to a large extent as though Irish were just an add-on at best, if not an actual bloody nuisance.

Seanfhear

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Fintan
Member
Username: Fintan

Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 09:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well said. Táim in aontaim let leat, a chara, amach is amach.

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.



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