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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (January- February) » Archive through January 25, 2009 » Correct translation of blessing 'Go n-éirí an bóthar leat...'? « Previous Next »

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Liz AA (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 04:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I would like the 'Go n-éirí an bóthar leat...' blessing to be read in both Irish and English (for the groom's Scottish side) at our wedding.

I know the translation of this is much disputed and I want to use an accurate one. I have two questions...
1) which version of the blessing (see below) is it preferable to use?
2) and could you give me an accurate English translation of this?

a) Go n-éirí an bóthar leat.
Go raibh an chóir ghaoithe i gcónaí leat.
Go dtaitní an ghrian go bog bláth ar do chlár éadain,
go gcuire an bháisteach go bog mín ar do ghoirt.
Agus go gcasfar le chéile sinn arís,
Go gcoinní Dia i mbosa a láimhe thú.


b) Go n-éirí an bóthar leat
Go raibh an ghaoth go brách ag do chúl
Go lonraí an ghrian go te ar d'aghaidh
Go dtite an bháisteach go mín ar do pháirceanna
Agus go mbuailimid le chéile arís,
Go gcoinní Dia i mbos A láimhe thú

I'm sorry for writing in English but I've I haven't used my Irish at all since I have been living in Scotland.

Go raibh míle maith agat,
Liz

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Breandán
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Post Number: 62
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 08:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Liz,

The top one is slightly more complicated in its wording but they would come out very similar to each other in English.

a) says:

May the road rise with you,
May the direction of the wind be always with you,
May the sun shine softly and gently on your forehead,
May the rain fall softly and evenly on your fields,
And until we meet each other again
May God keep you in the palms of his hand. [sic]

b) says:

May the road rise with you,
May the wind be always at your back,
May the sun shine warmly on your face,
May the rain fall gently on your fields,
And until we meet each other again
May God keep you in the palm of His hand.


May I ask who will be reading to whom? Both versions are in the singular, i.e., aimed at one person. If the blessing is to be read by someone else to the couple together, I think it might be better in the plural.

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7895
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 08:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

PLEASE, do not translate it as "May the road rise with you!"

Éirí means several things, and in this case is means "success"

Go n-éirí an bóthar leat May your journey be successful

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Breandán
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Post Number: 63
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 09:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Okay, a Aonghuis, I can see your point, but it is also possible to be technically right and contextually wrong. It is more a question of whether Liz would prefer it translated prosaically or poetically.

Right or wrong, "May the road rise with you!" has become almost a standard translation that retains the original flavour of the Irish.

You suggest "May your journey be successful".

Ó Dónall's dictionary also has a derivative that would allow "May you prosper on your way" or "May you prosper on your journey".

Liz, in the end, it's your wedding, your poem and your choice, please select whichever of the above suits the image _you_ have in mind.

(A Aonghuis, is there anything else you feel might be wrong or too literal?)

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7897
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

A Aonghuis, is there anything else you feel might be wrong or too literal?)



Níl. Ach sé an chaoi go gcuireann a nath áirithe sinn soir mé. Ní aontaíom ar chor ar bith go bhfuil blas na Gaeilge ar "may the road rise with you" - nath nach bhfuil ciall ar bith leis. Blas an tÉireannachas Stáitse a fhaighimse uaidh!

Agus sin mo racht go n-uige seo.

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Breandán
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Post Number: 64
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:05 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Liz, Aonghus feels that "May the road rise with you!" is too stage Irishy. I guess it does sound a bit worn.

Let's try the following:

a)
May you prosper on your journey,
May the direction of the wind be always with you,
May the sun shine softly and gently on your forehead,
May the rain fall softly and evenly on your fields,
And until we meet each other again
May God keep you in the palms of his hand. [sic]

b)
May you prosper on your journey,
May the wind be always at your back,
May the sun shine warmly on your face,
May the rain fall gently on your fields,
And until we meet each other again
May God keep you in the palm of His hand.

If you'd prefer one of the other versions let us know. And that is all still in the singular. Please also let us know what you think about changing it to plural "your faces", etc.

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Abigail
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Post Number: 956
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:29 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ní léir dom go bhfuil ceachtar acu seo thar moladh beirte, mar aistriúcháin. "Cóir na gaoithe" a déarfainn seachas "an chóir gaoithe", nó leis an dara leagan a leasú "ar do chúl" seachas "ag do chúl". Tá mionrud eile nó dhó... bítear ag cur is ag cur báistí, mar shampla, ach an mbíonn "an bháisteach ag cur"?

I'm not altogether happy with either of these, to be honest. Here is how I would emend the first one:

Go n-éirí an bóthar leat (libh).
Go raibh cóir na gaoithe i gcónaí leat (libh).
Go dtaitní an ghrian go bog bláth ar d'éadan (ar bhur n-éadan),
go dtite an bháisteach go bog mín ar do ghoirt (ar bhur ngoirt).
Agus go gcasfar le chéile sinn arís,
Go gcoinní Dia i mbos a láimhe thú (sibh).

where the bits in parentheses would be substituted in to make it plural.

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Breandán
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Post Number: 66
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think you're right, Abigail. Actually, they both look like back-translations to me. I thought it would be easier to work on the English first and then go back and fix the Irish, depending on which version Liz chose and whether she wanted plural instead but you've made a start on it and a good one.


(A small point: ar bhur n-éadan? or ar bhur n-éadain?)

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Abigail
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Post Number: 957
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 12:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Ar bhur n-éadan" is cirte de réir mar a d'fhoghlaim mé, agus éadan amháin ag an duine acu. (Mar an gcéanna a deirtear "inár gcroí", "lena n-anam" .i. ball coirp ar bith nach mbíonn ach ceann amháin ag gach duine.)

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Breandán
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Post Number: 67
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 12:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ní raibh a fhios agam faoi sin, ach tá sé agam anois. Go raibh maith agat, a Abigail!

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Ismiseséamus
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Post Number: 15
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 01:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

N'fheadar an fearr

Go raibh an chóir ghaoithe i gcónaí leat.
or Abagail's version
Go raibh cóir na gaoithe i gcónaí leat/libh

a aistriú mar

"May the winds of justice be always with you/ye"

Aontaím le aonghus go bhfuil
"may the road rise with you" mícheart.
"eirí" in this case is not "rise" but "success" as in "go n-éirí" leat = "may you be successful" not "may you rise!"
so
"go néirí an bóthar leat" = "may your journeys succeed"

"May the road rise with you" obviously implies a wish that all your struggles be "uphill" or difficult. Thats not a blessing but a curse!!!!!

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7901
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 04:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

No, dammit. Throw away that dictionary!

cóir [ainmfhocal baininscneach den tríú díochlaonadh]
ceart, cothrom (níl ceart ná cóir aige); cion nó sciar ceart (níor ith sé ach a chóir); freastal ceart (chuir sé cóir mhaith orm; cóir leighis a chur ar dhuine); bail cheart (tá gach ní i gcóir againn); feisteas nó fearas ceart (cóir oibre, cóir thaistil); gaoth fhabhrach (seoladh le cóir ghaoithe).

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7902
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 04:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Chaith mé súil ar "Ár bPaidreacha Dúchais" ach níl aon leagan den bheannacht úd ann.

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Abigail
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 04:57 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sin toisc nach paidir dhúchasach í!

Is cuimhin liom líne áirithe as amhrán a chuireadh mearbhall orm:
Ar fhilliúint ó Shligeach dom, agus leid bheag a fháil den chóir,
'S ní chónód faoi bhealach nó go mblaisfinn de phóg mo stóir.

Ar ndóigh is í an "chóir" atá i gceist cóir na gaoithe, agus is é atá sa "leid chórach" ná siolla dá laghad den chóir sin... ach níor léir sin don landlubber seo d'fhoghlaimeoir ar dtús!

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7904
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 04:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

the winds of justice gaoithe na córa
a fair wind cóir na gaoithe


I was a bit waspish earlier. But literal translations which make Irish out to be something picturesque are a bugbear of mine.

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7905
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 05:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Sin toisc nach paidir dhúchasach í!



Níl mé cinnte faoi sin.
Tá bunús an dán úd bunaithe ar nithe atá ar fáil i mbeannachtaí dúchasacha.

Tá "Go n-eirí Dia agus bóthar leat" ann (uimhir 183) agus an ceann álainn seo (185)

Seacht bpaidreacha faoi sheacht,
'chuir Muire dá Mac,
'chuir Bríd faoina brat,
'chuir Mícheál faoina sciath,
'chuir Dia faoina neart,
idir mé agus tine mo mhúchta,
idir mé agus uisce mo bháite,
idir mé agus bás obann,
le mo chumhdach, le mo shábháil,
le mo chosaint agus le mo ghardáil

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Ismiseséamus
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Post Number: 20
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 05:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"No, dammit. Throw away that dictionary!"

Wha??? Níor bhaineas úsáid as foclóir le blianta!

How about "Cóir na gaoithe" = "the justness/rights of the wind" which slightly adjusted could be "the winds of justice" to make it more comprehendable to the Gall? Just speculation /provocation / cogitation!

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7907
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 05:49 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá sé mícheart. Ní cóir cóir a úsáid san tslí sin!
Féach an sliocht ón bhfoclóir beag a thug mé thuas.

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Ismiseséamus
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 06:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ahem - QED - Ní mise atá baint úsáid as foclóir mar sin!

"níor ith sé ach a chóir" - like his "just" desserts?

Caithfidh tú a admháil go raibh tionchar ag Béarla ar an ngaeilge ar feadh cúpla céad bliain.

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Breandán
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 09:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Shéamuis, I think Aonghus point is for you to ditch that useless dictionary you have and get a decent one. Not using a dictionary you say? QED What is the Irish word for "decapitation"? Ah, "dícheannadh", perhaps (De Bhaldraithe).

Now, back to work:

There's a phrase in the song "Peigín Litir Mhóir", too:

"Tá iascairí na Gaillimhe ag teacht anoir le cóir"
The Galway fisherman are coming west when the wind is fair."

So can we say:

"May there always be a fair wind for you"? or

"May you always have a fair wind"? or

"May the fair wind always be with you"? (Do we need to translate the article in this case? or can we put it down to different usage in English?)

Any other candidates not involving "justice"?

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bob (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 09:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

dia diut is mise bob ta me ag foghlaim gaeilge agus ta me ag lorg daoine ag caint agam

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7908
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Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 06:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Ní mise atá baint úsáid as foclóir mar sin!



Thug mé sliocht as an bhfoclóir chun a léiriú dhuit go raibh tú ag aistriú cóir go mícheart sa chás seo.

Ní ionann "cóir" agus "just" i ngach cás. Tá beagnach leathanach iomlán, agus ceithre ceannfhocail faoi léith, ag cóir i bhfoclóir Uí Dhónaill.

Is minic gurbh mar sin an scéal. Ní fhreagraíonn focal i dteanga amháin go hiomlán do gach brí atá ag focal eile i dteanga eile ach go fíor annamh.

Nílimse ag maíomh gurbh mé an cúirt uachtarach i gcás na Gaeilge - Aonghus locuta, causa finita.

Nuair atá fianaise le mo thuairim, tugaim é.




A Bhreandán:

Faigheann

"May you always have a fair/favourable wind"?

mo thacaíochtsa.

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Breandán
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Post Number: 78
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Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 12:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"May you always have a favourable wind" - Is maith liom eisean.

Céard faoi "go bog bláth" agus "go bog mín"?

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7911
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Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 02:59 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Deacair Béarla ceart a chuir orthu. Ní file mé!

Go dtaitní an ghrian go bog bláth ar d'éadan (ar bhur n-éadan),
May the sun shine softly and gently on your face (fch. bláth = bláith i FGB)
go dtite an bháisteach go bog mín ar do ghoirt (ar bhur ngoirt).
May the rain fall softly and gently on your field

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Breandán
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Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 08:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Deacair go leor, cinnte.

Bhí "soft and gently" orthu agamsa freisin i dtosach ach b'fhearr liom difríocht a chur idir eatarthu i mBéarla freisin. Nuair a léifear an bheannacht amach ag an mbainis, bheadh sé sin rud beag níos suimiúla mar sin, sílim, cé chomh beag é. Dá bhrí sin chuir mé "softly and evenly" ar an dara cheann.

An bhfuil smaoineamh agatsa faoi, a Abigail? Nó ag duine ar bith eile?

(Message edited by breandán on January 14, 2009)

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Hugo
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Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 07:13 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

B'fhearr liomsa "soft and gentle" gan "-ly".

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Breandán
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Post Number: 84
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Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 07:30 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is maith an smaoineamh é sin, a Hugo.

Céard faoi:

May the sun shine soft and gentle on your face

May the rain fall soft and fine on your field

mar shamplaí?

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 7918
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Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 08:20 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

N'fheadar. Nach bhfuil sinn ag teacht salach ar ghramadach an Bhéarla?

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Breandán
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Post Number: 85
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Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 08:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think you are right, Aonghus. I think perhaps it works with the verb "feel" but not with other verbs, so the sun can "feel soft and gentle on your face" but it "shines softly and gently".

Smaointí eile chun "go bog bláth" agus "go bog mín" a idirdhealú?

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Aonghus
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Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 10:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/gently

D'fheadfá Mildly no Smoothly a úsáid.

Go dtaitní an ghrian go bog bláth ar d'éadan (ar bhur n-éadan),
May the sun shine softly and mildlyon your face (fch. bláth = bláith i FGB)
go dtite an bháisteach go bog mín ar do ghoirt (ar bhur ngoirt).
May the rain fall softly and gently on your field

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Liz AA (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 11:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh mile maith agaibh!

Sorry for my dely in replying. Yes it is to be read to us both so I would use the plural. I thought this would prove to be an interesting debate!
Thanks so much for all your help - how does this sound?

Go n-éirí an bóthar libh.
Go raibh cóir na gaoithe i gcónaí libh.
Go dtaitní an ghrian go bog bláth ar bhur n-éadan,
go dtite an bháisteach go bog mín ar bhur ngoirt.
Agus go gcasfar le chéile sinn arís,
Go gcoinní Dia i mbos a láimhe sibh.

May your journey be successful.
May the direction of the wind be always with you.
May the sun shine softly and gently on your faces,
May the rain fall softly and evenly on your fields.
And until we meet each other again,
May God keep you in the palms of his hand.

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Breandán
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Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 07:59 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi, Liz.

I think "palm of his hand", rather than "palms of his hand", (Abigail has already fixed the Irish for us).

Also, Aonghus has suggested "May you always have a favourable wind" for line two.

That would give us:

Go n-éirí an bóthar libh.
Go raibh cóir na gaoithe i gcónaí libh.
Go dtaitní an ghrian go bog bláth ar bhur n-éadan,
go dtite an bháisteach go bog mín ar bhur ngoirt.
Agus go gcasfar le chéile sinn arís,
Go gcoinní Dia i mbos a láimhe sibh.

May your journey be successful.
May you always have a favourable wind.
May the sun shine softly and gently on your faces,
May the rain fall softly and evenly on your fields.
And until we meet each other again,
May God keep you in the palm of his hand.

How does that sound?

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 02:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ana mhaith ar fad.

Indeed -palm of his hand and I like the "May you always have a favourable wind" for line two. Any preferences for 'keep or hold' and 'us or you' for the last line here?

Go n-éirí an bóthar libh.
Go raibh cóir na gaoithe i gcónaí libh.
Go dtaitní an ghrian go bog bláth ar bhur n-éadan,
go dtite an bháisteach go bog mín ar bhur ngoirt.
Agus go gcasfar le chéile sinn arís,
Go gcoinní Dia i mbos a láimhe sibh/sinn.

May your journey be successful.
May you always have a favourable wind.
May the sun shine softly and gently on your faces,
May the rain fall softly and evenly on your fields.
And until we meet each other again,
May God keep/hold you/us in the palm of his hand.

Go raibh míle maith agaibh go léir.
Liz

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Breandán
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Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 09:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Coinnigh usually means "keep" but can also mean "hold". I was thinking of it in the sense of "may God protect you". I suppose both work equally as well, so whichever sounds better to you, Liz.

"Sinn/sibh" will also probably work equally as well as each other linguistically. It depends on whether you wish the reader to be included in the protection, or for it to be a wish towards the receivers. I think the latter would be more usual, though.



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