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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (January- February) » Archive through January 25, 2009 » Colloquial Irish « Previous Next »

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Gaillimh_abú
Member
Username: Gaillimh_abú

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 11:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A chairde,
Has anyone used the new Colloquial Irish course? It's only been available for a few months, but it seems promising.

According to the reviews I've seen online, it's based in Cois Fharraige dialect, so it could be a nice compliment to the Learning Irish course.

And, as my name (gaillimh_abú) would suggest, this would seem to be exactly the type of course I've been searching for. But, before rushing out to buy it, I was curious if anyone on Daltaí has tried it, or heard anything about it.

GRMA!
-GA

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Cionaodh
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Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 660
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 06:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dia dhuit, a GhA.

Colloquial Irish is a course in spoken Irish, and the speakers are from the Cois Fhairrge region. It's a bit like Buntús Cainte (sans cute cartoons) but more focused on conversation skills than is BC.

As you'd expect, Colloquial Irish doesn't teach grammar at all, but if you're using it alongside Learning Irish, you've probably enjoyed more than enough grammar from Mícheál Ó Siadhail.

Colloquial Irish lacks some of the idiosyncratic spellings one sometimes find's in Ó Siadhail's Learning Irish -- which I consider a good thing, since many a student of LI has been frustrated to find themselves unable to look up words from LI in standard dictionaries due to Ó Siadhail's spellings. His intentions may have been honourable (he was trying to render words the way they're actually pronounced in Cois Fhairrge Irish), but the result was a bit of a stumbling block to novice learners (though, to be fair, they weren't his target audience). Unlike LI, Colloquial Irish seems to stick to standard spellings.

The plastic case which holds the book & CDs of Colloquial Irish does a dreadful job of holding the CDs in place -- mine arrived floating loose in the case, and two attempts to put them back and shut the case resulted in at least one dislodging from their spot on the case liner. I gave up and put them in protective sleeves within the case.

(Message edited by cionaodh on January 12, 2009)

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Trigger
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Username: Trigger

Post Number: 281
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 08:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post


Gaeilge go deo!

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Gaillimh_abú
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Username: Gaillimh_abú

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 09:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks to both of you!

Cionaodh - would you recommend the course?

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Asarlaí
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Username: Asarlaí

Post Number: 220
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 09:33 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ar fheabhas a Trigger. Go raibh míle maith agat as na naisc. Ní raibh a fhios agam go raibh stuif mar seo ar fáil ar líne. D'fhág mé mo chóip de 'TY Irish grammar' ar eitleán cúpla mí ó shin, 'deas á fheiceáil arís.

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Cionaodh
Member
Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 661
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 09:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cionaodh - would you recommend the course?

Not as a stand-alone course (I prefer a bit of grammar), but in concert with some other course/courses . . . definitely.

Colloquial Irish will make an excellent addition to a learner's set of books/resources for learning Irish.

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Gaillimh_abú
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Username: Gaillimh_abú

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 10:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Much appreciated, a Chionaoidh (is that even close?).

A little background on my studies so far...

I've been studying Irish off and on for the last 4 years. I've tried all the usual suspects (Buntús Cainte, Learning Irish, Pimsleur, Irish On Your Own, etc.), but always seemed to lose my way a month or two in.

I had the most success with IOYO, probably b/c of the conversational style of it. But, it's focus on Ulster dialect kept throwing me off. I know that, as a beginner, I shouldn't be too concerned with dialect, but I can't help myself. My goal is to learn Conamara Irish (as that is where my mother is from), so I've always stumbled with the other non-Conamara courses. And, Learning Irish, with its monotonous word lists and intense grammar, was too much for me to take in. Hopefully, in tandem with Colloquial Irish, I can use both courses to get me where I need to be.

Two last questions for you (I think):
-what level of fluency should a learner expect to reach after completing Colloquial Irish?
-what course would you recommend moving on to after finishing CI?

Go raibh maith agat arís!
-GA

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Cionaodh
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Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 662
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 11:03 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

-what level of fluency should a learner expect to reach after completing Colloquial Irish?

Basic conversation skills involving common conversation topics; some difficulty expressing your own thoughts if the conversation veers off the "common" route and into more personal avenues, as Colloquial Irish doesn't teach one how to construct sentences about unusual topics. For instance, good luck discussing the finer points of your job in software engineering or exactly how you crafted that culinary masterpiece in your kitchen last night. Relying on CI exclusively will leave you lost once you exhaust all the common topics.

In order to be able to fully express yourself, you'll need some basic grammar skills so that you can take new vocabulary, put it into the right places in a sentence, and then utter it. That's where a course with grammar content comes in handy.

-what course would you recommend moving on to after finishing CI?

Turas Teanga will be of help taking your conversation skills a bit further, and Speaking Irish: An Teanga Bheo will help you with verbal comprehension, especially with understanding speakers from a variety of dialects/accents.

If you can lay your hands on a course called Cogar (booklet & tapes, now out of print), that one also focused on Conamara Irish.

http://www.gaeilge.org

FRC - Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 55
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 11:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi, a GhA.

I used Learning Irish without the benefit of a teacher and would find myself getting bogged down every four or five chapters. I would then go to Buntús Cainte for a while for some light practice.

I also found the newer Teach Yourself Irish (Ó Sé and Sheils) a good mix of conversation and grammar explanation in standard Irish. I would often find the answer there to whatever was stumping me with Learning Irish and could then go back and continue with that.

I have the Colloquial Welsh course and it was excellent, so thanks for bringing up the topic and letting us know that Colloquial Irish is out there. I will have to get a copy. If it is anything like the Welsh one it will be great.

If you haven't gotten through Learning Irish yet I would still work through to the end of it. Once you've done that you'll have most of the grammar you need to read. Then look for short stories or novels that have an English translation available and work with those.

Get the big Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla (Ó Dónall) as it is full of idioms and examples.

There are quite a few works by Pádraig Ó Conaire in both Irish and English available including Deoraíocht (the Exile) and also collections of his short stories. I read the Cló Mercier edition of his "an Chéad Chloch" without any English. You may not understand everything but it is builds your vocab.

"Cith is Dealán" by Séamas Ó Grianna was another easy to read set of short stories. It is in Donegal Irish but very accessible from Connemara Irish and the version I have (Cló Mercier, again) has a glossary of non-standard usages in the back.

To help you practice writing in Irish, get de Bhaldraithe's English-Irish Dictionary and Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Crísotaí.

If you get lost you can always ask here for some help.

Good luck

Brendan

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Invisible
Member
Username: Invisible

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 12:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dia dhaoibh,

I'm still very new in learning Irish language (just a few months), and I'm self-thought. But here is my perspective on this book from a first glance, with a bit of (somewhat needed) introduction... Sorry for the longer post :o)

When I try to learn something I usually buy/acquire a few beginning books about it to get a better understanding of the topic from different perspectives.

Learning Irish language has interesting obstacles since there is not to many books on single dialect, and you eventually have to mix them at the start. So I have "Rosetta Stone - Irish" (Munster) and Learning Irish (Cois Fharraige) as well as Colloquial Irish (also Cois Fharraige). Needles to say, they have a very different approach to learning Irish.

As I learned here, there are two groups of people learning Irish:

- Linguists (usually polyglots) who love languages themselves and who prefer linguistic approach on a language with lots of grammar and rules.

- People who are amateurs in language learning, and prefer easier introductions into the language, with lots of dialogs, and preferably as little grammar as possible, since it's intimidating to them. They usually prefer to know the country and way of life in the country the language is from. Be it because of their ancestry or just plain liking of the place/people/music/books.

Colloquial Irish is for the second kind. It's simple and easy way to get your feet wet in the Irish language. There isn't too much grammar, but enough to understand lessons in it. Finishing it might bump your status from beginner to "early intermediate" knowledge of the language, and you'll need to find another book to continue your education.

"Learning Irish" is obviously great in it's own way but it's obviously for the linguistic bunch of learners with too much intimidating grammar. It may be good enough after you do Colloquial Irish, since it's describing the same dialect.

Since Gaillimh_abú, and many here have "Learning Irish", here is a little comparison.

"Learning Irish" has 36 lessons in 208 pages. Lessons are short, school like. They start with a vocabulary, continue with plain Grammar, some Texts and Exercises. To a self-study layman person (not linguist) lessons are intimidating with too much data to acquire per page, and they almost scream for a teacher support.

Colloquial Irish compared to LI has "only" 14 lessons in 172 pages. It's much easier going, and the structure of the lesson is: A dialogue, vocabulary of that particular dialogue, Exercise. These sections repeat since you have more then one dialogue per lesson. But among this sets of dialogues you have small tidbits of grammar explanations and, what I find interesting for layman, Irish Culture sections. Irish Culture sections describe a way of life or expected behavior of Irish people.

For example first Irish Culture in Lesson 1 will describe how to greet people. While most books consider Dia duit standard and leave it at that, Colloquial Irish describes that people there often greet each other with Haigh! (Hi!), and on telephone with Haló (Hello). That people you don't know and those which are older then you are to be greeted with standard Dia duit. Especially if you intend to start a conversation in Irish.

Another one describes typical Irish cottage, and how it evolved somewhat (for tourist purposes mostly) from a single room to something one would now expect now days (many rooms, plumbing).

Maybe tidbits which don't mean much to linguists, but stuff which many self-study layman will find interesting break from a dry language learning.

Maybe it'll help to compare lesson pages as well:

Learning Irish - Lesson 2: 4 pages
Colloquial Irish - Lesson 2: 14 pages

Like "Learning Irish", "Colloquial Irish" has Audio CDs.

Colloquial Irish pack (book + cds) is so poorly made that CDs will probably arrive lose in a box. Mine arrived with so many scratches on them they skip during playback, and I'm waiting for replacements of them. As Cionaodh said, you'll probably be better of to keep CDs (if they arrived ok) somewhere else.

Hope this helps a bit :o)

Slán...

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 01:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

great job whoever made the last post. you explained the differences really well. I've been debating which books/cd sets to get and that sort of explanation helps greatly. Im in the second category and was horrible at languages in school so the colloquial Irish would suit me best. thanks again.
grma.
niall

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 76
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 01:42 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I understand what you mean, the heavier texts aren't for everybody.

I would also recommend the Teach Yourself Irish series (Ó Sé and Sheils) for its insights into the language and culture and Buntús Cainte is excellent for conversation even though it contains no explanations.

The main problem with having reduced grammar explanations is that you need a lot more examples to find the rules yourself. So my recommendation would be to do Colloquial Irish and then perhaps do Teach Yourself Irish or Buntús Cainte as a follow up. Once you have done one, the others will be progressively easier.

As I said, I used those to get me through the heavier Learning Irish and I got there in the end.

I also find that when the going gets tough my whole body rebels against the idea of learning a language, any language, "why are you doing this to me?", it seems to say. I find at times like those it is good to go back to whatever prompted me to want to learn the language in the first place, in my case usually a song or something, and remind my subconscious why I am doing it.

Of course, that's when I was learning completely on my own. Any similar stimulus is always good and if you can find someone to converse with, however infrequently, it will keep you motivated.

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Heidski
Member
Username: Heidski

Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 05:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Trigger,

I would have sent a personal email, but I'm not sure if it's possible. The first time I accessed those great links on scribd, there was no problem. Ever since then, it crashes everytime. Have you ever encountered this? I'm using Internet Explorer. I will try firefox when I get home (?)

Feel free to respond offline at .

gma,

John

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Peter
Member
Username: Peter

Post Number: 585
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 07:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Heidski,

Could you please change or remove your personal quote in the profile, or rather translate it into English.

Thanks,
Peter

(Message edited by peter on January 15, 2009)

'Na trí rud is deacra a thoghadh – bean, speal agus rásúr'

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Peter
Member
Username: Peter

Post Number: 586
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 07:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

BTW you've made a hellova lot of mistakes in this trasliteration...

'Na trí rud is deacra a thoghadh – bean, speal agus rásúr'

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4368
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 08:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Каждый дрочит как он хочет.

Oh dear. Níor mhiste liom leagan Gaeilge de sin a fheiceáil.

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Curiousfinn
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Username: Curiousfinn

Post Number: 164
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 09:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Каждый дрочит как он хочет.

Tá focal amháin Rúisis agam... vodka. Ní thuigim. An bhfuil é déistineach nó an bhfuil fadhb eile air?

(Message edited by curiousfinn on January 15, 2009)

Tine, siúil liom!

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4370
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 11:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tig leat cuardach Google a dhéanamh leis an abairt sin. Tá suíomh nó dhó ann a mhíníonn é.

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Curiousfinn
Member
Username: Curiousfinn

Post Number: 165
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 11:30 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

*ag miongháire leathan* - Tuigim anois.

Tine, siúil liom!

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 398
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 11:34 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Níor mhiste liom leagan Gaeilge de sin a fheiceáil.


Níor mhiste liomsa ach oiread! Níl aon fhocal do san agam go dtí so!

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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4371
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 11:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cúpla ainmfhocal duit, a Dhomhnaillín:

féinsásamh, lámhchartadh, glacaireacht, faoiseamh láimhe

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 399
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 04:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a sheanfhir shalaigh! Tá a fhios agam ná fuil ann ach comhtharlú, i gcomhthráth níl neart agam air, chím dealramh ag "(lámh)chartadh" leis an focal Catalóinise "cardar" go bhfuil an bhrí "focáil" leis.

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Abigail
Member
Username: Abigail

Post Number: 968
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 05:30 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Níor mhiste liom leagan Gaeilge de sin a fheiceáil.


Hmm...

"Ní lia glacaire ná glaic"?
"Ag an duine féin is fearr a fhios cá luíonn a lámh air"?

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7934
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 05:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Níl aon greim gabhail mar do ghreim gabhail féin?

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Curiousfinn
Member
Username: Curiousfinn

Post Number: 168
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 07:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Ag an duine féin is fearr a fhios cá luíonn a lámh air



quote:

Níl aon greim gabhail mar do ghreim gabhail féin



Sílim go tuigim...

"One knows best theirself how their hand fits there"

and

"There's no touch like your own touch"

???

Tine, siúil liom!

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Abigail
Member
Username: Abigail

Post Number: 969
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 07:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well, ní déarfainn "touch" go baileach - tá leagan Aonghusa níos talmhaí ná sin - ach is ea, is léir go bhfuil sé tuigthe agat.

Ar ndóigh tá siad uilig bunaithe ar sheanfhocail Gaeilge:
"ní lia duine ná tuairim"
"ag an duine féin is fearr a fhios cá luíonn an bhróg air" (i.e. "where the shoe pinches him")
agus "níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin"

Ceist agam oraibh, a lucht na Rúisise: cé acu "fear" nó "duine" atá i gceist sa mbunleagan?

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!



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