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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (January- February) » Archive through January 11, 2009 » 'bainis' agus 'pósadh' « Previous Next »

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Riannleighiche
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Username: Riannleighiche

Post Number: 29
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 02:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

So I was listening to Altan and in the song "Dónal agus Morag" it uses the word 'bainis' to mean 'wedding'

"Dónal, ‘sé Dónal, ‘sé Dónal a rinne an bhainis.
Dónal agus Mórag a rinne an bhainis ainmeall."

Is there some kind of semantic distinction between 'bainis' and 'pósadh', or is 'bainis' a word used in Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh's dialect of Donegal Irish? I've only seen 'pósadh' used before.

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Breandán
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Username: Breandán

Post Number: 38
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 04:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

pósadh is the actual ceremony and resulting state of "marriage"; bainis is the party you have to celebrate it - "a wedding reception".

Interestingly, in recognition of the organizational skills that used to go into a wedding reception, the Irish word for "manager" is bainisteoir.

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Ismiseséamus
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Username: Ismiseséamus

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 10:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

LOL - Tá sé sin suimiúil. Níor aihin mé an ceangailt idir "bainis" agus "bainisteoir" cheanna. Agus ag deireadh na bainise bhéadh an bhainisteoir ina réiteoir!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7855
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 11:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Scéal maith, ach tá amhras orm faoi.

Ceapaim gur mó de shean gurbh ón bhfocal seo é:

bainistíoch [aidiacht den chéad díochlaonadh]
maith ag spáráil airgid, tíosach.

Ban-fheis an bunús le bainis.

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Breandán
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Username: Breandán

Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 03:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sin é an scéal a d'inis cúpla de mo sheanmhúinteorí dhom. Ná habair nach raibh siad ach ag magadh fúm! (TT) Brisfidh tú mo chroí, a Aonghuis. ;-)

Ach sin mar a bhíonns sé le sanasaíocht phobail, nach bhfuil?

Céard é an fréamhú ar bainistíoch, más eol do dhuine ar bith? Is nós ársa í an bhainfheis, is dócha. Nach féidir gur tháinig bainistíoch ó bainfheistíoch freisin? B'fhéidir nach é, ach is minic a tharla a leithéid agus rudaí níos annaimhe, measaim.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7856
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 03:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bhuel, níl aon fhoclóir sanasaíochta ann don Ghaeilge, agus ní bhfuair mé faic i MacBain.

Níl fhios agam, mar sin.

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Breandán
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Username: Breandán

Post Number: 42
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 11:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bhuel, a Aonghus, bhí an ceart agatsa aríst, mar is iondúil, agus d'fhoghlaim mé cupla focal nua mar thoradh as.

Chuardaigh mé "bainis" agus "bainisteoir" le Google agus tháinig mé ar théacs an-suimiúil le Coiste Uile-Pháirtí an Oireachtais ar an mBunreacht anseo:

http://www.constitution.ie/publications/irish-text.pdf

Tá sé ag plé le roinnt mhór téarmaí dlithe Gaeilge in úsáid i mBunreacht na hÉireann.

Ar leathanach a 108, tá an trácht a leanas ann faoi "bainis" agus "bainisteoir":

Professor Máirtín Ó Murchú gives the origin of ‘bainistí’ as a compound of ‘banas’ and ‘tighe’ – Jim O’Donnell points out that ‘economy’ derives from Greek ‘oikos’, ‘house’. ‘Banas’, based on ‘ben’, is translated in DIL as ‘the condition of a woman; womanliness; woman’s activities’...

The compound ‘banas’ and ‘tighe’ originally had the sense of ‘that which relates to the woman of the house’, this developing to ‘the management of the house’ and later to ‘management’, according to Máirtín Ó Murchú...

Finally, note that, while both ‘bainistí’ and ‘bainis’ are based on ‘ben’ (‘woman’), ‘bainistí’ is not directly related to ‘bainis’ (‘wedding’), the earlier form of which, ‘banais’ (translated as ‘marriage-feast, wedding’ and ‘feast, banquet in general ’ in DIL), is a compound of ‘ben’ and ‘feis’ (originally ‘spending the night, sleeping with’, hence ‘spousal’, according to DIL).


An-suimiúil ar fad.


(Riain, in case you got lost there, Aonghus has pointed out that bainisteoir comes from a different word bainistíoch "thrifty", not bainis. I have found a text that confirms his etymology. The full text is on page 108 at the above link. It's in English. Have a look! - and sorry for sidetracking your thread. )

(Message edited by breandán on January 07, 2009)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7857
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2009 - 04:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ach feicim gurbh iad na mná fréamh na ceiste, arís eile!

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Breandán
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Username: Breandán

Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2009 - 07:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yes, Aonghus, I'll have to revise my earlier statement:

In recognition of the organizational skills that go into running a household, the Irish word for "manager" is bainisteoir.



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