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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (January- February) » Archive through January 11, 2009 » How do you pronounce the following words? « Previous Next »

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Skii30
Member
Username: Skii30

Post Number: 80
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 07:42 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Just wondering how you would pronounce the following two words. I would say
Iarthar [ i-har]
Oirthear [o-her]

Is this correct?

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 27
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 08:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Foclóir póca gives the pronunciations as:

Iarthar /iərhər/
Oirthear /orhər/

So mostly you are on the right track but you'll have to try to put the r's back into your pronunciation. Think of Scottish English r's and consciously trill them in Irish as well. The h's don't have to be strong but you can't leave out the r's.

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Riain_liam_o_laithimh
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Username: Riain_liam_o_laithimh

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 09:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is the /r/ in these words an approximant like in English, or a flap as in Spanish 'pero' ('but')?

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Breandán
Member
Username: Breandán

Post Number: 30
Registered: 12-2008


Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 11:05 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi, Riain.

According to the dictionary phonetics, they are all broad /r/s, therefore taps. I think this is because of the /h/ sound following them.

In Connemara, where the /h/ is omitted, you would get:

iarthar /i:ərər/
oirthear /er'ər/

The first /r/ in oirthear being medial slender is like a light French "j" /zh/ (I can't get the IPA symbol up here but it is the z with a tail) only up near and lightly touching the alveolar ridge, so it is almost fricative and possibly an approximant depending on your definition but still nothing like English /R/ which is pronounced way up high near the roof of the mouth with the tongue held away from the palate altogether.

Does that make any sense to you?

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Riain_liam_o_laithimh
Member
Username: Riain_liam_o_laithimh

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 11:14 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It does! We talked about this kind of stuff in LING 200 last year.

Now the trouble is getting the pronunciation right.

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Ismiseséamus
Member
Username: Ismiseséamus

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 08:30 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

iarthar = ear-her

oirthear = leave out the C in cuir + her

Simplest way I can explain it anyway!



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