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Riannleighiche
Member Username: Riannleighiche
Post Number: 24 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 06:28 pm: |
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...criticisms welcome. Please don't be too harsh. I was also a little unclear on the pronunciation of "ceiliúrfaidh mé" - I haven't had the money yet to get a decent book so I'm floundering about on a lot of things, including the pronunciation of verbs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E96oQzjcY94 |
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Smac_muirí
Member Username: Smac_muirí
Post Number: 200 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 08:25 pm: |
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Maith an fear! Maith thú. Sin an chaoi lena dhéanamh, amach os comhair an tsaoil mhóir. Ná bí róbhuartha faoin bhfoghraíocht. Tiocfaidh sé sin. Go maire tú an craoladh idirlín. |
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Riannleighiche
Member Username: Riannleighiche
Post Number: 25 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 09:15 pm: |
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Smac_muirí, nil mé tuigim! Tiontaíonn tú as Báerla, le do thoil? (I tried to translate that for about twenty minutes and couldn't) |
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Bearn
Member Username: Bearn
Post Number: 937 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 09:35 pm: |
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Cad as tú? The longer I stay away from Ireland the more I confuse the 'mid-atlantic' speech of young people with Americans |
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Riannleighiche
Member Username: Riannleighiche
Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 09:54 pm: |
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Mairim mé ag Victoria, British Columbia sa Ceanada. Tá scolaire me na teangeolaíocht ar Ollscoil na Victoria. |
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Smac_muirí
Member Username: Smac_muirí
Post Number: 201 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 07:04 am: |
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Go maire tú é - well done. Ná bí buartha faoin bhfoghraíocht - don't worry about pronounciation - is maith an scéalaí an aimsir - time will take care of that. Maith thú. |
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Guevara
Member Username: Guevara
Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2007
| Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 12:50 pm: |
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Riannleighiche is breá liom Vancouver Island. Chaitheas dhá sheachtain go leith i gCeanada arú anuraidh i BC, Toronto, PEI agus Nova Scotia. Hi Riannleighiche I loved Vancouver Island went over on the ferry and saw Killer whales on the way. Spinnakers beer is something else brought home a few bottles and Victoria is beautiful. Spent two and a half weeks in Vancouver, Toronto and Haliax. Also went to Cape Breton heard plenty of Gaelic in Mabou and Christmas Island the Gaelic strongholds. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2602 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 02:21 pm: |
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Not bad at all a Riann ! You pronounce Irish better than some Irish singers ! Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2603 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 02:29 pm: |
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By the way, the language is called Gaeilge, pronounced roughly "GALE-guih", so /ge:l'g'@/ in Connemara, two syllables only, it is not GAY-ligg-eh" and it is not spelt Gaelige. In Ulster we say Gaeilg pronounced GAY-likk, and in Munster, Gaelainn pronounced GAY-linn. Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Ormondo
Member Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 149 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 03:17 pm: |
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quote:You pronounce Irish better than some Irish singers ! Riann sounds very promising; he has the right idea. I think some of the Irish singers are oblivious of pronunciation. There seems to be a recognized correct way of pronouncing the language wrongly. Leaving all the patronizing flattery aside for a gullibility-free moment I would estimate that the Irish - in general - are linguistically still changing their horses midstream and blithely butchering both. Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Brendan WEIGHTMAN (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 04:05 am: |
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quote:By the way, the language is called Gaeilge, pronounced roughly "GALE-guih", so /ge:l'g'@/ in Connemara, two syllables only, it is not GAY-ligg-eh" and it is not spelt Gaelige. In Ulster we say Gaeilg pronounced GAY-likk, and in Munster, Gaelainn pronounced GAY-linn. Actually, it can have either two or three syllables, a Lughaidh, because Gaelic allows a helping vowel in a consonant cluster. More importantly, it is pronounced /gwe:l(i)gi/ NOT /ge:l(i)gi/, i.e., "GWALE-gi" or "GWALY-gi" NOT "GALE-guih". Likewise, Gaeltacht is /gwe:Ltaxt/ not /ge:Ltaxt/, i.e., "GWALE..." NOT "GALE...". The phonetics used in a lot of Irish dictionaries and texts omits the "w" for all broad consonants (and uses /'/ to mark the "y" of slender ones) so where they have /ge:/ they mean /gwe:/ (and where they have /g'e:/ they mean /g(y)e:/ = /ge:/). |
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Brendan WEIGHTMAN (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 04:17 am: |
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Riann, in answer to your very first comments, I would say /kelyu:ra me/ if you are after a Connacht accent. After all, it is a West Connemara song. Other dialects would probably say /kelyu:rha/, /kelyu:rfa/, /kelyu:rhwi/, /kelyu:rfwi/, /kelyu:rhwig/, or /kelyu:rfwig/. Take your pick. ;-) For a text book, get Teaching Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail. It has the best coverage of pronunciation and grammar. You can come here for help with any bits you don't understand. :-) |
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 574 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 07:48 pm: |
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A Bhreandáin, De réir na rialach, chuirfí gutha cúnta isteach marach gutha fada a bheith insa siolla roimhe. Sé sin le rá, /ge:l’g’ə/ ba cheart a rá (chomh maith le /ge:l’g’l’ə/ a bheadh ag corr-chainteoir Chonamara, de réir chosúlacht). Sin ráite, níor chuala mé ach /gel’əg’ə/ ag mo bhean an tí as Tír an Fhia, cé gur féidir nach lán-chainteoir Gaeilge í ar chor ar bith. Maidir leis an “glide”, tá an scéal seo chomh casta agus narbh fhiú é a tharraingt anuas :) Ar ndóigh, is mór an difear idir “leathantas” a bheadh ag /d/ in /din’ə/ (duine) agus ag /b/ in /bil’ə/ (buile) agus ag /g/ in /giv’ə/ (guidhe), ó thaobh na hurlabhraíochta dhe. Tá súil agam go bhfuil muid ar aon intinn go bhfuil velarisation, labialisation agus go leor eile i gceist anseo ach “leathantas” a dtugtar othru seo uilig i gcodarsnacht le “caoileacht”. Mar sin, tá an ceart ar fad ag Lughaidh agus níor bhain sé úsáid as aon chomhartha eile leis an leathantas seo a chur in iúl, mar is léir go bhfuil chuile chonsain leathan ach iad sin a bhfuil /’/ díreach ina ndiaidh. (Message edited by peter on January 03, 2009) 'Na trí rud is deacra a thoghadh – bean, speal agus rásúr'
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2628 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 09:15 pm: |
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Bhail, d'fhreagair Peter in m'áit, go díreach mar a d'fhreagainnse féin. quote:Riann, in answer to your very first comments, I would say /kelyu:ra me/ if you are after a Connacht accent. After all, it is a West Connemara song. Other dialects would probably say /kelyu:rha/, /kelyu:rfa/, /kelyu:rhwi/, /kelyu:rfwi/, /kelyu:rhwig/, or /kelyu:rfwig/. Take your pick. ;-) Go bhfios domh níl fuaim "ly" ar bith san fhocal sin i gcanúint ar bith: is l singil caol atá ann agus cha bhíonn fuaim "ly" aige sin am ar bith. ceiliúrfaidh = /ˈk´el´uːrhi/ = [ˈkʲɛlʲuɾ̥hi], ní /ˈk´eL´uːrhi/ = [ˈkʲɛλuɾ̥hi] quote:Maidir leis an “glide”, tá an scéal seo chomh casta agus narbh fhiú é a tharraingt anuas :) Ar ndóigh, is mór an difear idir “leathantas” a bheadh ag /d/ in /din’ə/ (duine) agus ag /b/ in /bil’ə/ (buile) agus ag /g/ in /giv’ə/ (guidhe), ó thaobh na hurlabhraíochta dhe. Tá súil agam go bhfuil muid ar aon intinn go bhfuil velarisation, labialisation agus go leor eile i gceist anseo ach “leathantas” a dtugtar othru seo uilig i gcodarsnacht le “caoileacht”. Mar sin, tá an ceart ar fad ag Lughaidh agus níor bhain sé úsáid as aon chomhartha eile leis an leathantas seo a chur in iúl, mar is léir go bhfuil chuile chonsain leathan ach iad sin a bhfuil /’/ díreach ina ndiaidh. Níl an scéal gomh casta sin : bíonn w-glide i ndiaidh na gconsan liopach leathan (b, f, m, p, bh, mh, ph) nuair a bíos fuaim ghuthaí toisigh i gceist : /bi:/ = [bʷiː] /fiː/ = [ɸʷiː] Cha bhíonn w-glide i ndiaidh na gconsan eile : [ɰ]-glide a bíos. /kiː/ = [kˠɰiː] /teː/ = [t̪ˠɰeː] Cha bhíonn "gwayl-gih" ach ag foghlaimeoirí agus ag cainteoirí neamhdhúchasacha. Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Breandán
Member Username: Breandán
Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2008
| Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 09:24 pm: |
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Tuigimse féin é sin, a Pheadair, ach tá a lán tosatheoirí agus daoine eile ann nach dtuigeann é agus tá a lån mearbhaill ann faoi. Nuair a bhí mé ag teagasc do thosaitheoirí a raibh IPA acu, is minic ar éigean dhom cur i gcuimhne orthu go bhfuil difríochtaí móra idir an córas IPA agus an córas a úsáidtear sna foclóirí Gaeilge, srl, go háirithe i dtaobh na gconsan leathan agus caol. Ní cheapaim go laghdaíonn sé an mearbhall focal Béarla a úsáid mar shamplaí fuaimnithe. Ní aontaím, ach oiread, go bhfuil an ceart ag Lughaidh a rá nach bhfuil ach dhá siolla sa fuaimniú an fhocail "Gaeilge", sin uile. Dar liomsa gur féidir trí siolla a úsáid freisin agus níl cosc a bith air. Ní raibh a fhios agam go bhfuil rialach ann go gcaithfidh guth gearr a bheith sa siolla roimhe chun guth cúnta a úsáid. Ach tá sé sin suimiúil go leor. Taispeáin dhom cén áit a léigh tú é, le do thoil, agus déanfaidh mé staidéar air. Tá an-suim agam i bhfoghraíocht. Go raibh maith agat os ucht do chuid léirithe, a Pheadair. |
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Breandán
Member Username: Breandán
Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2008
| Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 10:43 pm: |
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Gabh mo léithscéal, bhí mé ag úsáid foghráiocht nach bhfuil caighdeánach mar níl an chlóscríbhinn agam anseo. Ní raibh ach an "l singil caol" ar intinn agam nuair a scríobh mé "ly"; tusa a léigh rud eile inti, a Lughaidh. Do chlóscríbhinnse féin a úsáid, a Lughaidh, fuaimnítear i gComamara mar seo é, sílim: ceiliúrfaidh = /k'eˈl'uːrə/ = [kʲɛˈlʲuɾə]. Ní Gaeilgeoir ó dhúchais mé ach níl mé i mo thosaitheoir, ach oiread, a Lughaidh. Mura n-aontaíonn tú liom, tá sé de cheart duit do thuairimse féin a rá, ach ní gá dhuit a bheith mímhúinte. Tá a lán eolais agat, cinnte, ach níl an t-eolas sin iomlán fós. Ní eolas amháin a dhéanann múinteoir de dhuine. |
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Bearn
Member Username: Bearn
Post Number: 947 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 05:11 am: |
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"I think some of the Irish singers are oblivious of pronunciation. " I think you have to understand Ireland and Irish people. Every country has areas that for all sorts of reasons, are blind spots. In Ireland it is believed that the Irish accent comes from the Irish language, thus by extension, Irish people can speak Irish as they are by default, all natives. It is also a belief that they know everything, and you'd better not disagree with them on anything, even when their ignorance is clearly apparent, or you'll soon find out, either by anger or mocking, what they think of it. The longer I have lived outside of Ireland, the more apparent it gets that Irish people lack humility of any sort. With reference to this topic, for those singers, there is absolutely no possibility allowable in their heads for a) being wrong, or b) Irish having structures and features they have not mastered. Therefore, they will always sing it wrong, nor could you ever even explain to them any different |
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Smac_muirí
Member Username: Smac_muirí
Post Number: 224 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 07:28 am: |
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Gné greannmhar eile faoi Éireannaigh an chantail, a luaithe a rachaidh siad thar lear, ní tada feasta a bhfuil d'eolas ar domhan faoi rud ar bith in Éirinn, canúintí san áireamh, ach a bhfuil acu féin. Fág acu é. |
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Smac_muirí
Member Username: Smac_muirí
Post Number: 225 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 07:33 am: |
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A Bhreandáin, tá tú ag iarraidh an múineadh a chur ar ais sna múinteoirí, bail ó Dhia ort. Tá roinnt a fhanfas sách dall ar chéad chonsan an dá fhocal san. Ná cuirfeadh sé sin isteach ná amach ort. Buail faoin teanga, ceann ar aghaidh dá n-ainneoin, is go n-éirí sin leat. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2630 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 03:18 pm: |
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quote:Tuigimse féin é sin, a Pheadair, ach tá a lán tosatheoirí agus daoine eile ann nach dtuigeann é agus tá a lån mearbhaill ann faoi. off-topic... quote:Nuair a bhí mé ag teagasc do thosaitheoirí a raibh IPA acu, is minic ar éigean dhom cur i gcuimhne orthu go bhfuil difríochtaí móra idir an córas IPA agus an córas a úsáidtear sna foclóirí Gaeilge, srl, go háirithe i dtaobh na gconsan leathan agus caol. Ní hé an IPA a fhaghthar ins an Fhoclóir Phóca ach cineál trascríobhtha fhóineolaígh a rinneadh don Ghaeilg. Ní hionann an dá rud ar chor ar bith. Ní hionadh go bhfuil duifreacha eadar an dá rud, mar sin. Ins an IPA ciallann an uaschamóg "ejective consonant", mar shompla. quote:Ní aontaím, ach oiread, go bhfuil an ceart ag Lughaidh a rá nach bhfuil ach dhá siolla sa fuaimniú an fhocail "Gaeilge", sin uile. Dar liomsa gur féidir trí siolla a úsáid freisin agus níl cosc a bith air. Níl cosc ar bith ar rud ar bith, cibé ar bith, ach níl áit ar bith sa Ghaeltacht ina n-abróchar "Gaeilige" (amhanc ar atlas Wagner 's tchífidh tú). Na daoiní a deireas sin, is foghlaimeoirí iad nár fhoghlaim an focal sin i gceart, sin an méid. Más mian leat úsáid a bhaint as fuaimníonnaí míchearta, déan é, ach ná habair leis na daoiní eile go bhfuil siad ceart. quote:Ní raibh a fhios agam go bhfuil rialach ann go gcaithfidh guth gearr a bheith sa siolla roimhe chun guth cúnta a úsáid. ba chóir duit sin a bheith ar eolas agad sula ndeirfeá linn go bhfuil an ceart agad agus go bhfuil dul amugha orainn... quote:Ach tá sé sin suimiúil go leor. Taispeáin dhom cén áit a léigh tú é, le do thoil, agus déanfaidh mé staidéar air. Tá an-suim agam i bhfoghraíocht. Mar shompla, in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí, §1.15. Smaoitigh ar fhocla mar "órga" (chan abartar "óraga"), maorga... quote:Ní raibh ach an "l singil caol" ar intinn agam nuair a scríobh mé "ly"; tusa a léigh rud eile inti, a Lughaidh. Do chlóscríbhinnse féin a úsáid, a Lughaidh, fuaimnítear i gComamara mar seo é, sílim: ceiliúrfaidh = /k'eˈl'uːrə/ = [kʲɛˈlʲuɾə]. Ní cóir "ly" a dh'úsáid, mar sin. Bheireann "ly" ort smaoiteamh ar an l mar sa Bhéarla "million". Cha dtig leat an l caol singil a thrascríobh ar nós a' Bhéarla cibé ar bith. Scríobhfainn féin "keh-loor", mar nach féidir rud ar bith níos fearr a dhéanamh, dar liom... quote:Ní Gaeilgeoir ó dhúchais mé ach níl mé i mo thosaitheoir, ach oiread, a Lughaidh. Mura n-aontaíonn tú liom, tá sé de cheart duit do thuairimse féin a rá, ach ní gá dhuit a bheith mímhúinte. cá háit a rabh mé mímhúinte, le do thoil? quote:Ní eolas amháin a dhéanann múinteoir de dhuine. Bhail is múinteoir mé cheana féin (ach teagascam teangaidh eile) agus cha dtearn duine ar bith gearán fá dtaobh domh go dtí seo... Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Smac_muirí
Member Username: Smac_muirí
Post Number: 226 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 04:22 pm: |
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Ara cén fáth a ndéanfadh éinne gearán fút a Lughaidh? .. .. |
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