Hi everyone! I'm a complete (and I do mean complete) beginner with the Irish language. I started out with the Giota Beag Series from the BBC. Here is my question on dialects, I see where the Ulster uses a "tch" sound, as in "watch" if the d or t comes before a slender vowel..e,i, etc. And from what I gather the other dialects do not. The Ulster also say..An bhfuil as ..un wil. I purchased a cd by the Irish Weavers and in one of their songs I noticed they sing An bhfuil as un VWIL but they used the "tch" sound with teacht. Can someone please explain to me if this is a combined dialect maybe? The dialect thing is driving me crazy! lol One says "maith" as "meye" another "mah" another "moy". And that is fine, it's just that when I run into what seems to be a mixture as I did with this cd as well as a couple of others I purchased, then I start getting confused. Thanks for any help you can give me. Slán, Deb

''Tchí'' is ''to see'' in Ulster Irish, amharc is to watch. The bhfuil is prononced with the V in Munster Irish only. ''Maith'' is roughly prononced ''my'' in Ulster Irish, and roughly ''moh'' in other dialects. Lughaidh is an Ulster Irish expert he would most probably give a better explanation.

Thanks Trigger, I wouldn't say I'm an expert... But I may help on some stuff.

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Here is my question on dialects, I see where the Ulster uses a "tch" sound, as in "watch" if the d or t comes before a slender vowel..e,i, etc.

roughly a tch sound for slender t and a j-sound for slender d, but this is the pronunciation of younger speakers. The old ones would pronounce more like t in "tune" and d in "dew" instead.

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And from what I gather the other dialects do not. The Ulster also say..An bhfuil as ..un wil.

Actually, natives don't say "un wil" most of the time, but just "wil", 'cause they don't pronounce the "an" before it (almost only learners do). Connachta people pronounce that as Ulster speakers.

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I purchased a cd by the Irish Weavers and in one of their songs I noticed they sing An bhfuil as un VWIL but they used the "tch" sound with teacht. Can someone please explain to me if this is a combined dialect maybe?

I guess they're just learners and they've mixed up all dialects (and maybe an English-like pronunciation too, as do most non-native speakers)... No Gaeltacht speaker would pronounce like that... "teacht" is pronounced roughlt "takht" in Munster (ie. where people say "vwil")...

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The dialect thing is driving me crazy! lol

don't be, dialects are the funniest and nicest things in languages :-)

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One says "maith" as "meye" another "mah" another "moy".

meye and moy look like two variants of the same (Ulster) pronunciation. "mah" is what Munster and Connachta speakers say.

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And that is fine, it's just that when I run into what seems to be a mixture as I did with this cd as well as a couple of others I purchased, then I start getting confused. Thanks for any help you can give me. Slán, Deb

well, don't trust the pronunciation of all singers who sing in Irish... most of them don't speak it and don't pronounce it properly. You can trust Altan, Clannad, Breandán Ó Beaglaoich, Seosaimhín Ní Bheaglaoich, Tríona and Maighréad Ní Dhomhnaill... well it would take a long time to make a list of all singers who pronounce properly... but anyway, those who pronounce badly are much more numerous than those who pronounce properly...

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well, don't trust the pronunciation of all singers who sing in Irish... most of them don't speak it and don't pronounce it properly.

How about Aoife Ní Fhearraigh? I'm asking because I just discovered her and was wondering if it was authentic Gaeilge I was hearing.

sorry it's a bit off topic, but anyway...

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How about Aoife Ní Fhearraigh? I'm asking because I just discovered her and was wondering if it was authentic Gaeilge I was hearing.

Of course it's natural for a particular area to have a particular accent and vocabulary (and grammar and all that stuff), but it's also just as natural for people to move around in life. I'm currently thousands of miles away from where I was born. At the moment I speak English with an Irish accent but I pronounce my th's, which is a result of being around Americans and Australians over the last few months. I'd say in another few months I'll probably have adopted their vowel sounds also (this would happen ten times quicker if I made a conscious effort to adopt their accent but I'm not particularly bothered).

I'm currently in the capital city of Laos called Vientiane. This place is like a hub, you've got loads of people coming in from the surrounding provinces. You've got people who were born and grew up in neighbouring provinces but are now living in the capital. These people talk a little bit differently, but I wouldn't by any stretch of the imagination refer to their Lao as unnatural.

I don't know who Aoife Ní Fhearraigh is, and I don't know anything about her. If Irish is her native tongue, then I'm sure at one stage she spoke with the accent and vocabulary of her hometown. Perhaps if she has moved to different gaeltacht, or possibly spoken Irish in Dublin with people from all parts of the country, her way of speaking may have changed from the original dialect. But that doesn't make her Irish unnatural or unauthentic, it just makes her Irish "more travelled".

Even though my way of speaking English has been changing lately, I still revert back to my old Irish accent and vocabulary when I'm speaking to an Irish person. "Alright bud", for example. If Aoife Ní Fhearraigh is a native speaker of Irish, I bet you she still has her original dialect tooked away in her head if you were to put her in a room with someone from her hometown. Some people can revert back to their old dialect in an instant, whereas for others if they've been away for years or decades it might take minutes or hours or maybe even a day or two to revert back. (That's assuming that the person isn't consciously resisting using their original dialect).

And of course, you can't deny dialectal "coolness". People who speak other dialects will adopt features of other dialects that they think are cool. In Upperclass Dublin for instance, you have teenagers using American slang and vocabulary. Even here in Laos, I've got a few friends of mine saying "What's the craic?!", they must like the sound of it.

Aye, Aoife is native from Gaoth Dobhair/Rann na Feirste. She pronounces more in the Rann na Feirste way. So you can trust her pronunciation ;-)

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Aye, Aoife is native from Gaoth Dobhair/Rann na Feirste. She pronounces more in the Rann na Feirste way. So you can trust her pronunciation ;-)

I was thinking indeed that she was probably a native but I wasn't sure. I'm probably going to get one of her albums so it's good to know that I'll be able to hear a bit of real Gaeilge!

Yeah. Anyway it's quite easy to know who is a native and who isn't: listen to the r's : 99% of those who use the same r's as in English are not natives ; most natives use different r's (at least a broad and a slender one, and the broad one is closer to the Scottish or Spanish ones) that are completely different. As far as I know, Munster has the only Gaeltachtaí where natives use English-like r's (younger speakers).

I've listened to the broad R a few times on Lughaidh's sound files to the sound of Irish and I think I can prononce the R properly because it feels different than before and my tongue kind of flaps to near my teeth but not exactly near it, but I still dunno if I'm saying it right I hope so.

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Yeah. Anyway it's quite easy to know who is a native and who isn't: listen to the r's : 99% of those who use the same r's as in English are not natives ; most natives use different r's (at least a broad and a slender one, and the broad one is closer to the Scottish or Spanish ones) that are completely different. As far as I know, Munster has the only Gaeltachtaí where natives use English-like r's (younger speakers).

That's funny, I was wondering about that. On the tapes accompanying the book Learning Irish, some speakers seem to pronounce the r's like english in certain situations. Yet strangely enough, in other situations they are pronounced as a plain traditional Irish tapped r's or it's usual palatalized equivalent. Knowing that traditionally the r's in Gaeilge are alveolar taps, I've been pronouncing them as such rather than following the English like pronunciation I hear in the tapes. Am I right in doing so? Also what is that all about? I would have thought that those approximant r's should have replaced entirely the Irish r should they ever have to appear in one's speech. Is this a natural development which was conditioned to appear only in certain phonetic environments?

Also, I've been looking at TG4 a bit, and well it won't be any news to you probably, but the majority of people I hear pronounce their r's as an approximant (like in English) and go as far as making no distinction at all with the palatalized version. Well, I guess depalatalization is on the way...

(Message edited by Angmar on December 18, 2008)

(Message edited by Angmar on December 18, 2008)

You are right - retroflex (?) approximant r's are used before coronals, i.e. in clusters rn('), rd('), rt('), rl('), rs'. A similar (broad) alveolar sound - although with much more friction - could be heard word-initially even from speakers who consistently use flaps in other positions. I think it's a natural development. It could be that this is a reflex of an older fortis R which, as we know, was previously realized in all these positions.

Peter

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I would have thought that those approximant r's should have replaced entirely the Irish r should they ever have to appear in one's speech. Is this a natural development which was conditioned to appear only in certain phonetic environments?

You can hear it in songs in some cases (especially at the end of verses) even by native speakers. In speech, I'd say it's a recent development that has come with English. I don't think Irish monoglots would have that sound, I'd say it's a "foreign" sound.

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Also, I've been looking at TG4 a bit, and well it won't be any news to you probably, but the majority of people I hear pronounce their r's as an approximant (like in English) and go as far as making no distinction at all with the palatalized version.

Yeah, and that's the way you know who is a native speaker and who is not... (except that it looks like younger speakers from Kerry and West Cork use only the English-like r, but they do make a distinction between slender and broad for all other consonants).

English r in Irish -disgusting and that is the plain truth.

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Yeah, and that's the way you know who is a native speaker and who is not... (except that it looks like younger speakers from Kerry and West Cork use only the English-like r, but they do make a distinction between slender and broad for all other consonants).

You'd really be surprised, I've met some people who can really adopt an accent 100% making them indistinguishable from a native. I know a German who sounds like an American when he speaks English, and he sounds like a Laotian when speak Lao.

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You are right - retroflex (?) approximant r's are used before coronals, i.e. in clusters rn('), rd('), rt('), rl('), rs'. A similar (broad) alveolar sound - although with much more friction - could be heard word-initially even from speakers who consistently use flaps in other positions. I think it's a natural development. It could be that this is a reflex of an older fortis R which, as we know, was previously realized in all these positions.

That is very interesting, I didn't know that. I guess however, as Lughaidh said, that it's more than probable this approximant r was acquired through English influence. It would seem to me this change isn't a plain substitution of sound, but rather a natural development due to language contact. A similar thing is happening right now with the Quechua language vowels. Originally Quechua had only three vowels /æ/ /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ while Spanish has /a/, /e/, /i/, /o/, /u/. Because most of the speakers of Quechua (if not all?) speak also Spanish there has been a sound change where by /æ/ /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ have changed respectively to /ɑ/, /ɛ/ and /ɔ/ when found next to the Quechua uvular sound /q/. This is believed to have happened because Spanish has a five vowel system. This five vowel system would have then left a bigger space for bilingual quechuans to adopt new vowels into their speech.

That being said, I really don't understand why people have such trouble with that tap r sound. From the moment I heard it I had gotten it. I can understand though for the slender version. It just gives me the impression that people aren't trying hard enough to learn the language and this is reflected partly by their inability to pronounce it properly. Then again, I have an outsider's opinion, so...

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You'd really be surprised, I've met some people who can really adopt an accent 100% making them indistinguishable from a native. I know a German who sounds like an American when he speaks English, and he sounds like a Laotian when speak Lao.

I know but I was talking about Irish. I know very few non-native speakers who speak exactly as a Gaeltacht speaker. Looks like it's very hard to get rid of an English-speaker accent :-)

Ní dhealaíonn tú an cainteoir Gaeltachta leis an gcainteoir dúchais. Spéisiúil.

Agis ní difríocht go dtí é.

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I know but I was talking about Irish. I know very few non-native speakers who speak exactly as a Gaeltacht speaker. Looks like it's very hard to get rid of an English-speaker accent :-)

Fair enough Irish is a minority language, but there's nothing special about it, it's just another language with a way of making particular sounds. If my German friend can adopt both an English accent and a Lao accent, then I'm sure he's up for the task of picking up a Gaoluinn accent :)

As for myself, well I've only been speaking Lao for 4 months so it's a little soon to be saying that I sound just like them. I've been told I sound just like them when I give a one-word or two-word response such as "yeah thanks" or "not yet", but in actual conversation I'd say there's loads of things that give me away. As to whether I have as much potential as my German friend, well that remains to be seen... but I'm optimistic :-D

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Ní dhealaíonn tú an cainteoir Gaeltachta leis an gcainteoir dúchais. Spéisiúil.

Is iad na cainteoirí Gaeltachta na fíorchainteoirí dúchais cibith... Na daoiní a tógadh le Gaeilg ag foghlaimeoirí (cainteoirí "neamhdhúchasacha"), dar liom nach cainteoirí dúchais iad, siocair nach bhfuil Gaeilg dhúchasach acu, go díreach, ach Gaeilg "fhoghlamtha".

'S rómhinic a bheirtear "cainteoir dúchais" ar dhaoiní a labhramsa Gaeilg níos fearr ná iad ! (agus thoisigh mé a dh'fhoghlaim na teangtha i 1996), sin daoiní nár fhoghlaim Gaeilg ó chainteoirí Gaeltachta agus a bhfuil Gaeilg olc go leor acu go minic.

Agus is minic féin a deireas daoiní gur cainteoirí dúchais iad, nuair a d'fhoghlaim siad Gaeilg i nGaelscoil (nó i scoil Bhéarla féin). Ach chan ar scoil a fhoghlaimeas duine a theangaidh dhúchais ach lena mhuitir. Tá cuid mhaith daoiní in Eirinn a shíleas gur cainteoirí dúchais iad ó tharla gurb í an Ghaeilg an chéad teangaidh oifigiúil agus gurbh Eireannaigh iad. Ach dá mba leor sin le bheith 'na chainteoir dúchais bheadh 'n saoghal i bhfad níos simplí...

Tháinig tú go hÉirinn le haisling a fhíorú agus tuigim é sin a Lughaidh. I ngeall ar an aisling sin, ní fheicfidh tú a bhfuil ag titim amach i nGaeltacht na hÉireann leis na céadta bliain. B'fhearr leat fanacht dall is bodhar, is dóigh, ar an bhfírinne shearbh. Éist leis na cainteoirí Gaeltachta agus tuigfidh tú nach cainteoirí dúchais cuid mhaith mhór díobh. Seobh é an ghné is truamhéilí ar fad de scéal na tíre. Ní thuigeann an chuid is mó de mhuintir na hÉireann féin nach cainteoirí dúchais cuid mhaith mhór de mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Ní gá taighde ná taifeadadh ná fogharscríobh leis an méid sin a thabhairt faoi deara. Níl le déanamh ach siúl ina measc is bualadh leo. Éist leo ar an teilifís is ar an raidió. Is furasta iad a aithint.

Ina dhiaidh sin arís, is féidir theacht ar chainteoirí dúchais den scoth i ngach áit, sa nGaeltacht, i gceantair bhreac-Ghaeltachta i ngan fhios don saol mór, i mbailte beaga is móra na tíre agus thar lear. Tá aithne agam ar theaghlaigh ar fágadh ina n-oileáin tréigthe iad nuair a chrap an Ghaeltacht thart orthu le ceithre scór bliain anuas. D'fhan siad dílis dá dteanga, thóg a ngasúir léi agus i gcás amháin, níl aon cheantar Gaeltachta sa chontae céanna leo. I gcás eile, nuair a thug iníon an tí aghaidh ar an ollscoil (OÉG), aithníodh céard a bhí inti agus cuireadh isteach i ranganna teagaisc na gcainteoirí dúchais Gaeilge í. Tá glúin eile de theaghlach ag tógáil a ngasúr le Gaeilg i Nua-Eabhrac mar is ann atá siad le suim blianta. Níor chlis siad sa teanga in aon ghlúin agus tá an Ghaeilg imithe as a gceantar dúchais ar fad in Éirinn. Tá an chuid sin den teaghlach atá in Éirinn ag labhairt Gaeilge le duine ar bith a labhrós Gaeilg leo, ach tá siad tuairim is 80 míle ón gceantar Gaeltachta is gaire dóibh.

Sin í an difríocht idir an cainteoir dúchais agus an cainteoir Gaeltachta. Is cainteoirí dúchais na mílte daoine sa nGaeltacht, ach is cainteoirí Gaeltachta na mílte eile. Aithneoidh tú an darna aicme sin furasta go leor, ach ligean dóibh labhairt ar feadh scathaimh.

Caithfidh mé a rá i dtaca leis an rchaol thuas, gur mhothaigh mé rchaol den scoth ag roinnt cainteoirí dúchais óga i gCorca Dhuibhne. Níl an rchaol ach ag fíorbheagán de mhuintir Chonamara. Tá an rchaol chomh rábach i nGaeltacht Mhaigh Eo is gur féiidir a mhaíomh gur saintréith canúna acu é.

D'ith mé lón le hochtar eile inniu. Bhí duine amháin gan Ghaeilg ann. Fágadh ina thost é, an duine bocht, an chuid is mó den am. Ochtar le Gaeilg ar fad, aon chainteoir dúchais (Gaeltachta) amháin ina measc. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil gasúir ag ceathrar den naonúr. Tá beirt acu, pósta ar dhaoine gan Ghaeilg, ag tógáil a ngasúr le Gaeilg agus níl an cainteoir dúchais le háireamh orthu. Le Béarla a thóg an cainteoir dúchais a cuid gasúr, mo léan.

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Tá beirt acu, pósta ar dhaoine gan Ghaeilg, ag tógáil a ngasúr le Gaeilg agus níl an cainteoir dúchais le háireamh orthu. Le Béarla a thóg an cainteoir dúchais a cuid gasúr, mo léan.

Surely there's kids being raised with both English and Irish as their "mother tongue(s)"? There's all sorts of mongrel kids over here in Laos, just yesterday I met a family with a Lao mother and a German father. Their small child, about 5 years old maybe, spoke Lao to the mother and German to the father.

I think the whole "native speaker" thing is being blown way out of proportion. I've been living for 4 months now in a part of the world where there's many people who speak English as a second language. They come in different levels:

1) The ones that are just plain crap at English
2) The ones who have good vocabulary, grammar, all that jazz, but their pronunciation lets them down because they speak English with a Lao accent (and their speech is unintelligible in places because of this)
3) The ones who have everything, the pronunciation, the grammar, the inflections, the accent, the intonation

When we're little babies, we of course have an ability to pick up a language, even mastering such subtleties as inflections (e.g. "The boy runs" instead of "The boy run"). Even stupid people pick up these inflections as babies; I mean when I went to school there were some truly stupid people, and they spoke English just fine. These people, at the age of 12, had difficult adding 28 and 49 together when give a pen and paper, but yet their inflections were impeccable, I've never once heard them say "The boy run home". As we get older, many people lose their language-learning abilities. I know an Arabic chap who's been living in Ireland for 30 years and he still has dodgy inflections, and all-round dodgy English in general, yet he was intelligent enough to get himself a PhD in electronic engineering, go figure.

There are the people who retain their language-learning abilities. And then you have the people whose language-learning abilities even increase as they leave childhood, and they even have greater intelligence to exploit at that stage to learn more languages.

Back again to my German friend, he really sounds America, I mean really. He exclaims stuff life "Your kidding me!", and "whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhat?". And when he speaks Lao, he really sounds Lao. I'm of the opinion that this man's language-learning capabilities are better than that of a child. He came to Asia about a year and a half ago, and I'd say he has better Lao than any Lao child, and being a smart man, he might have better Lao than your average-intelligenced Lao person.

If a child pops out of the womb and hears English from dawn to dusk, then the first accent they'll adopt is English. They'll try to imitate the sounds. They'll end up saying R the way English people do. Then, if that child is exposed to Irish at the age of 6 maybe, they'll hear an R sound that is very approximate to the R sound they already have practised, so they might use that, or then again they might imitate exactly what they hear. Depending on the child's laziness and desire to learn, they may or may not speak Irish with an English R. But if you get them young enough, they'll adopt both R's, one for English and one for Irish.

Adults are smarter than kids, plain and simple. I maintain that adults are better at doing stuff like learning languages and imitating what they hear. I remember when I first came to Lao I heard a consonant sound that I really just couldn't say; it's "ng", except at the start of a syllable. For days I kept saying "ng" when I was alone, in the shower, on my motorbike, and now I have it. They also have a sort of "tap D" that I've been working on. If I imitate these sounds and make an effort, there's no reason on Earth why I can't become indistinguishable from a native speaker.

And another thing, which I think is a great example: Have you ever seen the bargain stores set up by Pakistanis in Ireland? They're all over the place, there was one in my hometown. If you go into one of these shops, you hear the owner speak English with the typical Pakistani accent. However have you hear the kids... ? You'll never hear a truer Dub accent (Dub = person from Dublin). It's a little freaky the first time you encounter it, I mean they look Pakistani, they have Pakistani parents, they work in a Pakistani shop, you even hear them speak their Pakistani language to their parents, but then you ask them if they have something in particular and they reply in the most Dub accent you'll ever hear.

These Pakistani kids were most likely only exposed to English with a Dub accent when they went to school at the age of 4 years old, yet they have the accent down to a T.

You don't have to hear Irish straight away when you pop out of the womb to be an impeccable speaker indistinguishable from other native speakers.

Have you ever heard of the actor Christian Bale? He's known for his dedication to his roles. When filming for "The Machinist", he starved himself so that his body wasted away and he looked the part for a particular scene. A few months later, he had to bulk up to play Batman. Not only will Christian starve himself, but he'll perfect an accent for a role also. He'll sit down and listen to tapes and videos of people speaking, and imitate what he hears. The finished product is that you won't be able to distinguish him from a native speaker of the dialect he's imitating.

If you want to be a "native speaker of Irish", with the different consonants from English and all that jazz, just imitate them. The only limit is your own laziness. If you hold a gun to people's heads, I'm sure a lot more of them would be able to imitate accents perfectly given some practise. I mean Christ you can get someone to speak a totally different language if you hold a gun to their head, just look at the island of Ireland.

SmacMuirí > bhail nuair a bhí mise féin i nGaeltacht Thír Chonaill (sin an t-aon Ghaeltacht amháin ina rabh mé, go dtí seo), char chualaidh mé ach cainteoirí dúchais, sin fíorchainteoirí dúchais ; bhí cupla foghlaimeoir ann fosta ach char bhuail mé le daoiní as an Ghaeltacht nár chainteoirí dúchais. Is dócha go bhfuil a leithéidí ann i gceantracha eile, nó sa cheantar a rabh mé ach nár bhuail mé leofa sin. 'S níl 's agam cad é mar atá 'n scéal sna Gaeltachtaí eile ó tharla nach rabh mé ann ariamh go fóill.

Tá mé cinnte fosta go bhfuil cuidmhór fíorchainteoirí dúchais taobh amuigh don Ghaeltacht ach bhail, tá sé i bhfad níos deacra iad a dh'fháilt ! Dé mar a gheobhfá iad ach ceist a chur ar achan duine dá gcastar ort? Sin an fáth a bhfuil sé níos fusa ghabháil 'na Gaeltachta... 'dtuigeann tú.

A Thomáis, is amhlaidh atá's agam go bhfuil foghlaimeoirí ann a labhras chóir a bheith gomh maith le cainteoirí dúchais, tá aithne agam ar chuid acu ; tá cara domh arb as Meiriceá dó agus labhrann sé Fraincis agus Briotáinis mar chainteoir dúchais, agus cupla teangaidh eile fosta (gan bhlas Meiriceánach ar bith). Cara eile arb as a' Fhrainc daoithe a labhras Béarla mar Eireannach : nuair a bhí sí in Eirinn, nuair a deireadh sí le muitir na háite gurb as an Fhrainc daoithe, cha dtiocfadh le duine ar bith sin a chreidbheáil, siocair go rabh Béarla na hEireann aici.
Maidir leis a' Ghaeilg, ins an ollscoil bhí beirt nó triúir nárbh as a' Ghaeltacht daofa agus bhí Gaeilg Ghaeltachta acu ar aon nós, cha dtiocfadh leat creidbheáil gurb as na Sé Chondáidh daofa...
Ach níl mórán daoiní mar sin...

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Maidir leis a' Ghaeilg, ins an ollscoil bhí beirt nó triúir nárbh as a' Ghaeltacht daofa agus bhí Gaeilg Ghaeltachta acu ar aon nós, cha dtiocfadh leat creidbheáil gurb as na Sé Chondáidh daofa...
Ach níl mórán daoiní mar sin...

Aontaím leat maidir leis sin, níl an cumas teangan sin ag neart daoine, ach tá an tréith níos coitianta i measc daoine a bhfuil suim theangan acu. Má tá suim laidir ag duine i dteangachaibh, agus suim laidir acu i dteanga áirithe a fhoghlaim, ceapaim gur féidir leis feabhas a chur ar a chuid labhartha má dhéanann sé a dhícheall.

I think laziness pays a big part in language acquisition. I mean take the college lecturer I mentioned who's been living in Ireland for 30 years: He still doesn't do inflections correctly, "the boy go home", "I have three dog". Yet somehow he has the mental capacity to get himself a PhD in electronic engineering. (And he got that doctorate a few decades ago, before they started handing them out like sweets). My theory is that he's just lazy. I reckon if you put a gun to his head, you could get that big juicy electronic engineer brain of his to speak English properly. I mean Christ if you can do Complex Fourier Analysis of all sorts of mad signals then surely it can't be too difficult to say "he goes" instead of "he go".

Níl áit ar bith i nGaeltacht na hÉireann nach bhfuil an Béarla ag creimeadh faoi is thairis. Níl blas ar bith dá locht sin ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta. A mhalairt ar fad. Tá siad i dtír atá ar maos i mBéarla. Scór go leith bliain ó shoin, thiocfadh le duine theacht ar áiteanna Gaeltachta sa nGeimmhreadh a mbeadh an Ghaeilg chomh láidir is nach dtabharfaí faoi deara an bhean nó an fear gan Ghaeilg a phós isteach. Tá an ré sin thart agus níl aon teach sa nGaeltacht ó Leodhas go Cléire a bhfuil stócach nó giorsach ann nach bhfuil siad ag santú cláracha teilifíse Béarla agus comhluadar an Bhéarla mar a shantaíonn cuid agaibh anseo an Ghaeilg sa Samhradh ann.

Feicfidh súil ghlas saol glas.

Tá mé ag faire ar seo le blianta. Is é tuairim an duine Ghalltachta gurb í an Ghaeltacht na Flaithis teangan agus an rud céanna droim ar ais, muintir na Gaeltachta a shocraigh síos sa nGalltacht, samhlaíonn siadsan go bhfuil an domhnaíocht Gaeilge agus éachtaí déanta ar son na Gaeilge sa saol thart orthu sa nGalltacht. Níl fírinne an scéil, Ghaeltachta nó Ghalltachta, leath chomh milis le tuairisc ceachtar den dá dhream seo. Cuireadh éinne is mian leis an dallach dubh air féin. Breathnóidh sé siar faoi cheann roinnt blianta agus feicfidh sé go raibh a leithéid féin sa saol cheana in áiteanna eile a bhíodh láidir. Rachaidh sé ar ais ansin bliain éigin agus tuigfidh sé go bhfuil seandream na háite ag iarraidh a chumhdach le Gaeilg sa dóigh nach róléir amach is amach dó an fhírinne shearbh.

Sin é an t-am is cumhaíúla ar fad.

quote:

Maidir leis a' Ghaeilg, ins an ollscoil bhí beirt nó triúir

triúr, typo, gml....

A SMacMuirí > Chan í a' Ghaeltacht flaitheas na teangtha ach is í an áit is fearr cibé ar bith... Cén áit eile a dtiocfadh leat Gaeilg a labhairt leis a' chorrdhuine ar an tsráid gan chuma amadáin a bheith ort?

Molaim do chuid scríbhneoireacht, a Sheáin, caint chumasach ghonta atá ar do thoil agat agus gan ach rí-bheagán daoine le cur i gcomórtas leatsa insa méid sin!

Maidir leis na teaghlaigh le Gaeilge atá bunaithe os cionn 80 míle ón nGaeltacht – muise nach fánach an áit a bhfuigheá gliomach!

Rud eile, tá an ceart ar fad agat, ar ndóigh, agus tú ag cur síos ar an phenomenon sin a dtugann teangeolaithe “semi-speaker” air (leath-chainteoir Gaeilge, b’fhéidir) – duine arb as an nGaeltacht é ach gan é a bheith leath chomh cumasach insa teanga agus tá an lánchainteoir. Sula ndéanfaidh mé dearmad, séard bhí i gceist ag Brian Ó Curnáin as DIAS leis an téarma “semi-speaker”, an té a rugadh i nGaeltacht na Gaillimhe (an áit a raibh sé ag obair) ó na 1960í i leith – a fháganns go mba ‘eo é an nóiméad a raibh an heritage nádúrthach caillte i gcás cuid mhór de chainteoirí Gaeltachta, pé brí cén chiall a bhainfí as.

Maidir leis an r caol ó chainteoirí Chonamara, ná bí ag gearradh anuas orthab – cainteoirí den chéad scoth iad an dream thiar seo agus tá chuile fhuaim san áit cheart acab! ;)

Le meas

Is spéis liom an téarma san agat, an leathcainteoir. 'Cainteoir Gaeltachta' a thugas féin air, mar bíonn sé maíteach as a cheantar Gaeltachta, ach is léir nach cainteoir dúchais é. Tharlódh gur cainteoir scoile é a fuair taca na Gaeltachta lasmuigh den scoil.

An t-uan ag múineadh méiligh dá mháthair a bheadh ionamsa le bheith ag beachtú ar roinnt mhaith mhór de mo lucht aitheantais i gConamara, nó in aiteanna Gaeltachta eile, admhaím féin é sin a Pheadair. Ina dhiaidh sin caithfidh mé éisteacht leis na bearnaí thall is abhus, má thugaim cluas don raidió ná don teilifís. Sciorrfaidh gach éinne againn anois is arís. Is gnách nach gcríochnaítear gach abairt dar tosaíodh, san iliomad teangacha agus tarlaíonn míchruinneas dod' ainneoin, i do theanga dhúchais, chomh maith le teangacha eile.
Lasmuigh de sciorradh an chainteora, bíonn laigí i gcóras na muintire. Tá roinnt áiteanna i gcóras foghraíochta na gcanúintí éagsúla arbh fhiú do lucht craolta amharc ina ndiaidh, agus níl Conamara saor sa méid sin:

‘Nuair a bhí téipeanna Chúige Connacht agus Chúige Mumhan á n-ullmhú tharla deacrtachtaí áirithe maidir leis na contrárachtaí atá á léiriú i gCaibidil (VII0, (IX), agus (XI). Is minic nach raibh na contrárachtaí sin, nó cuid díobh, ag na cainteoirí ó na canúintí sin atá ar an téip’ (Ó Baoill, Dónall, 1975, 10).
Bun an leathanaigh sin: ‘Tá siad le fail, áfach, i dtuaisceart Connacht agus gheofar samplaí díobh i gcaibidlí ….’ (Ó Baoill, 10).
‘Níl an chaibidil seo ach amháin ar théip Chúige Uladh (Ó Baoill, 62).
(Caibidil XI atá i gceist, .i. /R/, /r/ & /r'/ atá faoi chuntas ann. )

Ó thaobh an chórais trí chéile, is ag cainteoirí dúchais Mhaigh Eo atá an Ghaeilg is treise agus is glaine in Éirinn. Is é an feall nach bhfuil fanta ach roinnt bailte fearainn faoina réim. Tá sí briste i dteach an óil le tuairim is deich mbliana, nuair a ghéill cainteoirí óga na háite do chainteoir óg amháin ina measc. Tá sí imithe as teach an phobail leis na sagairt Ghalltachta a thug a gcuid Béarla brocach leo isteach ann blianta fada ó shoin. Is cuimin liom sagart óg amháin, ar ordaigh an t-easpag ar chúrsa Gaeilge in aghaidh a thola é, ag eascainí, sea, ag eascainí, i mBéarla mar gheall air. Sin a raibh de mheas aige ar chaint na háite a raibh sé in ainm is a bheith ag freastal ar an eaglais ann.

quote:

is ag cainteoirí dúchais Mhaigh Eo atá an Ghaeilg is treise agus is glaine in Éirinn

Sin do bharu/il féin, ach ni/l canu/int ar bith a bheadh ni/os gloine na/ ni/os treise na/ canu/int ar bith eile : ta/ seanrudai/ agus rudai/ u/ra in achan chanu/int...

Tá 'álrite', 'dhiú nó', 'dhess', 'nó', tá Corca Dhuibhne 'ag prapáil chun' Gaelainn a fhoghlaim i gceart agus leoga, 'taaa púir rudaí' gleoite i nGaeilg Thír Chonaill cheana féin.

Ta/ 'n Béarla la/n do dh'fhocla Fraincise fosta agus ni/l sé ni/os measa na/ ni/os loige ina dhiaidh sin.
Agus cib bith chan air sin a bhi/ an chaint...

Is fíor duit, agus buíochas do Dhia, níor lean Gaeilg Mhaigh Eo an amaidí sin go léir.

Ach ni/l mo/ra/n cainteoiri/ don chanu/int sin ann ach an oiread...

Deirtear go mbíonn blas ar an mbeagán.

Is móide a dtábhacht laghad a lín.

Ná measctar dúil phearsanta i gcanúint agus feabhas oibiachtúil canúna ineacht.

Go raibh éisteacht do chomhairle féin agat. Dhéanfadh sé leas.

Ins domh cá háit ar úrt mé go rabh canúint ineacht níos fearr ná canúint eile... (ádh mór)

Ní dúirt, mar gur mó caoi le cat a mharú seachas a thachtadh le him.

Is é an trua ar bhealach nár thug tú ruaig am ar bith faoi Chill Ghallagáin, Ceathrú Thaidhg, Ceathrú na gCloch, Port an Chlóidh is an Corrán Buí. Thiocfadh leat sinn a bhodhrú ansin.

Cibith cha rabh mé i nGaeltacht ar bith ach in iarthuaisceart Thír Chonaill go dtí seo, ach chualaidh mé cuid mhór canúintí ar thaifeadtaí, ar a' raidió agus ar TG4 agus léigh mé cuid mhór leabharthach fá na canúintí. Ar an drochuair, níl mórán le fáilt fá Ghaeilg Mhuigh Eo...

Tuigim duit a Lughaidh. Ní furasta theacht ar ábhar agus ní féidir gabháil a fhad le gach cúinne in Éirinn gan am is costas go leor a chaitheamh leis.

Roinnt dá bhfuil ar fáil anseo, bhéarfaidh sé blas den áit. Tá súil agam gur cuidiú éigin é.

http://www.gaeltacht.eu/index.html

http://www.irishheart.ie/iopen24/pub/slinaslainte/maps/ceathru_thaidgh_page_2.pd f

http://ceathruthaidhg.com/home.html

http://www.beo.ie/index.php?archive_id=677&page=archive_content

http://www.celt.dias.ie/publications/cat/e/e2-9.html leabhar ar an Ghaeilg an áit (mar atá sé acu leis na cianta)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeYibIsyai8 fear ag léamh scéil

Podchraoladh nó dhó le fáil anseo: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_ardtrathnona.xml
ach an t-ainm ‘Ó Gionnáin’ a lorg istigh ann.
Thursday, May 01, 2008, 11:00:00 PM
Pádraic Ó Gionnáin as Maigh Eo ag cur síos ar an piseoga a bhaineann le Lá Bealtaine.
Wednesday, February 13, 2008, 11:00:00 PM
Pádraig Ó Gionnáin ag caint faoi Lá Vailintín

Tá 'n leabhar fá Ghaeilg Iorrais agus an cionn fá Ghaeilh Tuar Mhic Éadaigh agam cheana féin ach ar an iomlán níl iontu ach cur síos ar an fhoghraíocht agus ar an fhóineolaíocht. Maidir leis a' ghramadaigh níl mórán le fáilt iontu sin, ar an drochuair !

Grma ar son na nasc sin, a Sheosaimh.

Is cuimhin liom go rabh múinteoir agam arb as Muigh Eo dó, nuair a rinn mé cúrsa Gaeltachta leis an ollscoil, i dTír Chonaill ; bhí rang amháin againn leis an fhear sin, agus ar tús cha rabh 's agam cárb as dó, agus de réir a chainte, shíl mé féin gur canúint Chonallach aisteach a bhí á labhairt aige. Ba dh'é an rud ba saoithiúla liom ina chaint an dóigh a bhfuaimneadh sé an "ó": deireadh sé "póg" le "ó" druidte, nuair a bíos sé foscailte againn i dTír Chonaill.

Is léir gur chaith tú airgead nach beag le blianta anuas ar na leabhair, bail ó Dhia ort. Is dóigh nár bhac tú le ceann Stockman, tharla an t-eolas agat ar an chanúint ó thuaidh cheana féin.
An t-aon rud eile, nach féidir theacht rófhurasta air, Scéalta Chois Cladaigh le S. Ó Catháin.

quote:

fear ag léamh scéil

Togha na Gaeilge! Ba mhaith liom an scríbhinn a fháil. An bhfuil sí le fáil ar an idirlíon freisin?

Tá Gaeilge beo go fóill i gCeathrú Thaidhg, is é an fíor-Ghaeltacht amháin i gContae Mhaigh Eo i 2009.

Ní dóigh liom gur féidir theacht ar an téacs ar an idirlíon a Bhreandáin, ach tá ceann eile le fáil as an iarracht:

http://www.peterkgriffin.com/Muigheo1.htm

http://www.peterkgriffin.com/Muigheo.htm

GRMA, a Seosaimh. Tá sé sin go hiontach freisin.

A Sheosaimh, cad é 'n leabhar le Stockman atá i gceist agad?

Ceann a d'fhoilsigh sé ar Ghaeilg Acla a Lughaidh. Is doiligh theacht air is dóigh. Ní fheicim ar shuíomh na hInstitiúide a thuilleadh é. Séimhiú i ndiaidh réamhfhocal móide an t-alt an nós atá acu thiar. Measaim go mbeadh spéis agat ann, más féidir theacht air.

Stockman, Gerald 1974. The Irish of Achill. Belfast: Institute of Irish Studies.

Bhail, léigh mé cuid don leabhar sin, cupla bliain ó shoin, siocair go rabh sí ar fáilt i leabharlainn m'ollscoile. Ach chan cuimhneach liom go maith ar léigh mé inti. Ach is cuimhneach liom go rabh cuma Ultach uirthi, níos mó ná cuma Chonnachtach.