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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 108 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 09:01 pm: |
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Aistriúchán, más é do thoil é: “ní chuimhneom feasta air” as as Gaeilge Muimhneach |
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 364 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 11:02 pm: |
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Níor fhaca riamh an fhoirm "chiumhneom". An bhfuilir cinnte nach "chiumhneoinn" atá i gceist anso? Is ar comhbhrí le "ní bheadh cuimhne agam ón am seo amach" a bheadh sin. |
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 109 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 11:52 pm: |
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Go raibh maith agat, Tá mé ag léamh An Odaisé (aistritheoir: Monsignor Pádraig de Brún), Bhféidir "chuimhneoinn" is ar comhbhrí le "chuimhneom." (Message edited by Jimnuaeabhrac on December 13, 2008) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 7802 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 09:38 am: |
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Is dóigh liom gur foirm iolra atá i gceist. |
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 110 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 10:50 am: |
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Aonghus, Tá tú ceart: “Dá mhéad spéis AGAINN ann, ní chuimhneom feasta air, a Mheantóir." Tá mé buíoch díot as do chúnamh! |
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 366 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:15 am: |
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Cérbh é an aimsir agus an modh? Fuaireas sa ghramadach so an tagairt: "The 1st person plural [imperative] can be said also -(e)am or -(a)imid instead of -(a)imis" agus d'fhriafraíos díom féin cé acu foirm ordaitheach atá i gceist, ach is le ?"ná cuimhníom" a bheinn ag súil sa chás san. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 7803 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:31 am: |
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Leagan reamhchaighdeánach atá i gceist. Bhí ceangal láidir ag an Monsignor Pádraig de Brún le Corca Dhuibhne, teach aige i nDún Chaoin. An t-ordaitheach atá i gceist. |
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Lars
Member Username: Lars
Post Number: 279 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 02:47 pm: |
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Déarfainn gurb í an aimsir fháistineach atá i gceist. An 2ú réimiú: -eom = -eoimid, -óm = -óimid, An 1ú réimiú: -feam = -fimid -fam = -faimid Ní chuimhneom feasta air. = Ní chuimhneoimid feasta air. = We will not remember him henceforth. Lars (Message edited by lars on December 14, 2008) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 7804 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 03:26 pm: |
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Tá cuma an chruinnis ar sin. Bhí breall orm, mo leithscéal. |
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 111 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 04:16 pm: |
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Go raibh maith agaibh, I have asked Santa Claus for the "Big Book of Irish Verbs." Hopefully, it will help me with these problems, without having to bother you folks. (maybe I should see if I can find its hiding spot tonight!) However, if it only has post-standardization conjugations I may still be stuck. I appreciate everyone's help, I think I got it. (Message edited by Jimnuaeabhrac on December 14, 2008) (Message edited by Jimnuaeabhrac on December 14, 2008) |
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 112 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 08:41 pm: |
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Ní feicim. Actually, I don't get it. I don’t find the “–eom” ending in any of my references purport to be Munster-based. Is De Bruin is using an archaic (or parochial) form of the Munster dialect? Is there a reference which will help me find the conjugations used by the Monsignor? |
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Bearn
Member Username: Bearn
Post Number: 930 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:31 pm: |
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A broad m was used to signal the plural and the slender the singular (back when broad and slender labials could be relied upon) |
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Abigail
Member Username: Abigail
Post Number: 939 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 04:29 am: |
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Aontaím go bhfuil blas na hársaíochta air. Ní bhaineann sé le caint na Mumhan sa lá atá inniu ann, cés móite de chúpla leagan cailcthe - "téanam ort" cuirim (nó cuiream!) i gcás. Maidir le leabhar tagartha, níor mhiste dhuit "Stair na Gaeilge" a cheadú. Tá caibidil ar Ghaeilge na Mumhan a bhfuil a leithéid seo cíortha go maith inti sin. Nó ní mé an bhfuil leabhar eile ag imeacht nach mbeadh chomh cuimsitheach (=trom, daor) céanna... seanghraiméar dá bhfuil ar fáil ar líne, b'fhéidir? (Message edited by Abigail on December 15, 2008) Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 113 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 08:12 am: |
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Thanks Abigail and Bearn. In the interest of a timely reply I am falling back into English. I have been making decent progress using TYI from 1981(it used the Munster dialect back then). However, it doesn’t have some of these archaic forms. Also, it is also only introductory. Ó Dónaill has a lot of dialectal variants but not conjugations. Ó Cuív’s phonetic study is not helpful in this regard. I haven’t found a website with archaic conjugations. Old deliberations of the Dáil, available online, often use the Munster dialect. I sometimes find words used back then that I don’t find anywhere else online. I will look into "Stair na Gaeilge." I imagine you are right, and I’ll have to find an old grammar book. |
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Bearn
Member Username: Bearn
Post Number: 931 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 08:39 am: |
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Look up http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm Chapter 3: The verb and then under 'traditional conjugation and dialect differences' for some notes, that maybe, are helpful |
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 114 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 11:28 am: |
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I'll give that a closer look. Since Lars helped me earlier (thanks Lars), it is appropriate that his webpage might have additional information. GRMA. |
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 120 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 01:28 pm: |
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Well Dadai na Nollaig did not let me down; I got the “Great Book of Irish Verbs.” “Leabhar Mór Bhriathra na Gaeilge” dose have “chuimhneom.” If you look up “cuimhnigh” in the index, you are referred to “coinnigh” as the archetype. The first person plural for “coinnigh” as Gaeilge na Mumhan is “coinneom.” It is funny that the 1981 TYI didn’t have this form. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2616 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 01:58 pm: |
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It does exist but it sounds archaic. Normally Munster people use the -faimíd, -eoimíd...etc endings. Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 121 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 03:55 pm: |
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That is intersting. I wonder why it is included in this text. I am glad it is though, as it is seems to be the system used by my author, De Btuin. |
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 122 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 09:47 am: |
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"Leabhar Mór Bhriathra na Gaeilge" also has an asterisk on “coinneom” that indicates the standard form can be used. (Message edited by Jimnuaeabhrac on December 28, 2008) |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2618 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 08:15 pm: |
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The standard form has a short i while in Munster people have a long i : coinneoimíd and not coinneoimid... Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member Username: Jimnuaeabhrac
Post Number: 123 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 09:18 am: |
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Thanks for that correction. I may need to invest in a pair of glasses- I missed the fadas altogether. As I use this text I may find an explanation for these apparent inconsistencies. |
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