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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (November-December) » Archive through December 30, 2008 » Teastionn cabhair uaim. « Previous Next »

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Jimnuaeabhrac
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Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 108
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 09:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aistriúchán, más é do thoil é:

“ní chuimhneom feasta air”

as as Gaeilge Muimhneach

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 364
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 11:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Níor fhaca riamh an fhoirm "chiumhneom". An bhfuilir cinnte nach "chiumhneoinn" atá i gceist anso? Is ar comhbhrí le "ní bheadh cuimhne agam ón am seo amach" a bheadh sin.

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Jimnuaeabhrac
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Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 109
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 11:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat,

Tá mé ag léamh An Odaisé (aistritheoir: Monsignor Pádraig de Brún),

Bhféidir "chuimhneoinn" is ar comhbhrí le "chuimhneom."

(Message edited by Jimnuaeabhrac on December 13, 2008)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7802
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 09:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is dóigh liom gur foirm iolra atá i gceist.

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Jimnuaeabhrac
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Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 110
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 10:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aonghus,

Tá tú ceart: “Dá mhéad spéis AGAINN ann, ní chuimhneom feasta air, a Mheantóir."

Tá mé buíoch díot as do chúnamh!

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 366
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:15 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cérbh é an aimsir agus an modh? Fuaireas sa ghramadach so an tagairt: "The 1st person plural [imperative] can be said also -(e)am or -(a)imid instead of -(a)imis" agus d'fhriafraíos díom féin cé acu foirm ordaitheach atá i gceist, ach is le ?"ná cuimhníom" a bheinn ag súil sa chás san.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7803
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Leagan reamhchaighdeánach atá i gceist.

Bhí ceangal láidir ag an Monsignor Pádraig de Brún le Corca Dhuibhne, teach aige i nDún Chaoin.

An t-ordaitheach atá i gceist.

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 279
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 02:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Déarfainn gurb í an aimsir fháistineach atá i gceist.
An 2ú réimiú:
-eom = -eoimid,
-óm = -óimid,
An 1ú réimiú:
-feam = -fimid
-fam = -faimid

Ní chuimhneom feasta air. = Ní chuimhneoimid feasta air. = We will not remember him henceforth.

Lars

(Message edited by lars on December 14, 2008)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7804
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 03:26 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá cuma an chruinnis ar sin.
Bhí breall orm, mo leithscéal.

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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 111
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 04:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agaibh, I have asked Santa Claus for the "Big Book of Irish Verbs." Hopefully, it will help me with these problems, without having to bother you folks. (maybe I should see if I can find its hiding spot tonight!) However, if it only has post-standardization conjugations I may still be stuck.
I appreciate everyone's help, I think I got it.




(Message edited by Jimnuaeabhrac on December 14, 2008)

(Message edited by Jimnuaeabhrac on December 14, 2008)

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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 112
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 08:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ní feicim.

Actually, I don't get it.

I don’t find the “–eom” ending in any of my references purport to be Munster-based.

Is De Bruin is using an archaic (or parochial) form of the Munster dialect?

Is there a reference which will help me find the conjugations used by the Monsignor?

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 930
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A broad m was used to signal the plural and the slender the singular (back when broad and slender labials could be relied upon)

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 939
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 04:29 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aontaím go bhfuil blas na hársaíochta air. Ní bhaineann sé le caint na Mumhan sa lá atá inniu ann, cés móite de chúpla leagan cailcthe - "téanam ort" cuirim (nó cuiream!) i gcás.

Maidir le leabhar tagartha, níor mhiste dhuit "Stair na Gaeilge" a cheadú. Tá caibidil ar Ghaeilge na Mumhan a bhfuil a leithéid seo cíortha go maith inti sin. Nó ní mé an bhfuil leabhar eile ag imeacht nach mbeadh chomh cuimsitheach (=trom, daor) céanna... seanghraiméar dá bhfuil ar fáil ar líne, b'fhéidir?

(Message edited by Abigail on December 15, 2008)

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 113
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 08:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks Abigail and Bearn. In the interest of a timely reply I am falling back into English.

I have been making decent progress using TYI from 1981(it used the Munster dialect back then). However, it doesn’t have some of these archaic forms. Also, it is also only introductory.

Ó Dónaill has a lot of dialectal variants but not conjugations. Ó Cuív’s phonetic study is not helpful in this regard. I haven’t found a website with archaic conjugations.

Old deliberations of the Dáil, available online, often use the Munster dialect. I sometimes find words used back then that I don’t find anywhere else online.

I will look into "Stair na Gaeilge." I imagine you are right, and I’ll have to find an old grammar book.

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 931
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 08:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Look up http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm Chapter 3: The verb and then under 'traditional conjugation and dialect differences' for some notes, that maybe, are helpful

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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 114
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 11:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'll give that a closer look. Since Lars helped me earlier (thanks Lars), it is appropriate that his webpage might have additional information. GRMA.

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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 120
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 01:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well Dadai na Nollaig did not let me down; I got the “Great Book of Irish Verbs.”

“Leabhar Mór Bhriathra na Gaeilge” dose have “chuimhneom.” If you look up “cuimhnigh” in the index, you are referred to “coinnigh” as the archetype. The first person plural for “coinnigh” as Gaeilge na Mumhan is “coinneom.”

It is funny that the 1981 TYI didn’t have this form.

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2616
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 01:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It does exist but it sounds archaic. Normally Munster people use the -faimíd, -eoimíd...etc endings.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 121
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 03:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

That is intersting. I wonder why it is included in this text. I am glad it is though, as it is seems to be the system used by my author, De Btuin.

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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 122
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 09:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Leabhar Mór Bhriathra na Gaeilge" also has an asterisk on “coinneom” that indicates the standard form can be used.

(Message edited by Jimnuaeabhrac on December 28, 2008)

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2618
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 08:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The standard form has a short i while in Munster people have a long i : coinneoimíd and not coinneoimid...

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Jimnuaeabhrac
Member
Username: Jimnuaeabhrac

Post Number: 123
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 09:18 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks for that correction. I may need to invest in a pair of glasses- I missed the fadas altogether. As I use this text I may find an explanation for these apparent inconsistencies.



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