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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (November-December) » Archive through December 08, 2008 » Ceist « Previous Next »

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 781
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 09:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá ceist agam, a dhoaine léannta.

In expressions such as "i ndiaidh ama" and "i rith an ama," why is am inflected to read ama?

Is ait an mac an saol agus fáilte roimh cheartúcháin.

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 914
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 09:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Because the first part is treated as a noun and the next element is in the genitive.

Can be called 'derived prepositions'

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Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 782
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 09:31 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

GRMA, a Bhearn. Is this commonly observed by native speakers?

Is ait an mac an saol agus fáilte roimh cheartúcháin.

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 915
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 09:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Assuming they were using the genitive, the yes the second element would be inflected.

Maybe other people know (particularly among the young) if this is still the case. In set phrases I'd imagine everyone uses the genitive anyway

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Ormondo
Member
Username: Ormondo

Post Number: 127
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 04:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Is this commonly observed by native speakers?



In recent years a German author has had a series of bestsellers dealing in a jovial manner with the decline of the genitive case in the German language. ("Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod.")

Of course, the question those trying to preserve the genitive in their respective languages will eventually have to face up to is: Are we being possessive?

Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.

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Antain
Member
Username: Antain

Post Number: 43
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 04:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The genitive is not often used in normal speech if there is some kind of qualifier with an indefinite noun:

'I ndiaidh tamaill', 'I lár páirce' etc

But 'I ndiaidh tamall maith' 'I lár páirc mhór'

The Coiste Téarmaíochta suggest recognising this tendency in the written language. See their article on www.acmhainn.ie/tearmai/seimhiu.doc

Má ghabhann aidiacht, nó ainmfhocal sa ghinideach i gcáil aidiachta, le hainmfhocal éiginnte, moltar an t-ainmfhocal agus an aidiacht a fhágáil gan infhilleadh i ndiaidh réamhfhocail chomhshuite nó réamhfhocail a leanann an ginideach é de ghnáth:
i ndiaidh breac mór millteach, ar feadh tamall mór, i lár garraí mór, le haghaidh doras gloine, le linn stoirm mhór, i gcaitheamh lá breá, de bharr cogadh fíochmhar, tar éis geimhreadh fada, i dtaobh báid bheaga

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2579
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 10:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yeah, "i rith an ama" is kind of a set phrase so everybody would put "am" in the genitive. But for the phrases that are not "set ones", maybe they wouldn't use the genitive, especially younger speakers.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/



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