Looking over Ó Siadhail's chapter on the copula, he provides two examples that leave me with a question.

Is í sin mo bhean. That woman is my wife.
Is é féin an múinteoir. He himself is the teacher.
Is í an múinteoir í. She is the teacher.

Why is the pronoun repeated in the third example, but not in the first two? Is it only repeated when it's unmodified in the first instance?

Is the last an identificatory sentance and the others classificatory ones?

>> Is it only repeated when it's unmodified in the first instance?

Yep.

All of them are identificatory sentences.

Is í an múinteoir í. She is the teacher.
In the last example the subject is "í" (not the first but the last "í"! Subject is usually last in copula sentences.)
The first "í" is part of the phrase "í an múinteoir" which is the grammatical predicate.
The first "í" is called "sub-predicate".
It is necessary because you can't say "*Is an múinteoir í"
(Never copula + definite noun phrase without a pronoun between them!)
The additional prooun isn't the last but the first.

Of course you could say that the first "í" should be subject and so you wouldn't need a further pronoun at the end.
But this happens only in Ulster: "Is í an múinteoir."
Anywhere else the subject is last in such sentences and a sub-predicate is necessary.

Is í sin mo bhean. That woman is my wife.
Is é féin an múinteoir. He himself is the teacher.
In the first two examples subject is "i sin" (that, female) and "é féin" (he himself)
They come always first because of convention (wrong: "í sin" on last position: *"Is í mo bhean í sin")

Slán

When you've "é", "í" or "iad" alone as subjects of the sentence (whose predicate is definite), you repeat that pronoun before and after the predicate.

When the subjects is "í sin", or "é sin", "é seo" etc, then you don't repeat the pronoun. You only repeat it if it's alone.

Luimneach as Béarla, as Gaeilge agus as leathchúpla focal Hibernian (le "h" fánach*)

There once was a man from Beijing
Who was fond of the copula thing
He couldn't open his mout
but "is" or "ba" would come out
and go "Is í sin an ba í sin linn"


* agus dobhogtha leis de bharr coisc ar gháirsiúlacht!

I have another one for you.

Ó Siadhail also states that the "An" form of the copula is used less frequently than "Ar." I.e.,

An thusa an dochtúr? = Ar thusa an dochtúr?

Is this true in general, or is it just a Cois Fhairrge thing?

quote:

"Is í sin an ba í sin linn"

Ní féidir liom aon ċiall a ḃaint as sin.

D'fhiafraigh Domhnall

quote:

Is this true in general

Níl, go bhfios dom.

quote:

Ó Siadhail also states that the "An" form of the copula is used less frequently than "Ar." I.e.,

An thusa an dochtúr? = Ar thusa an dochtúr?

Is this true in general, or is it just a Cois Fhairrge thing?

Conamara mar aon le Cois F. (Connemara including Cois F.)
(agus "Ab é ..." in áit "An é ..." freisin.)

Caighdeán Ofigiúil: An tusa ...

Lars

In Ulster I think we'd say "Ab é tusa an doctar?".

quote:

Ní féidir liom aon ċiall a bhaint as sin.

An Shínis, b'fhéidir?

Tá James ag baint feidhm as an chlib \ gaelach chun an cló gaelach a úsáid. Muna bhfuil unicode agat, feicfidh tú boscaí (Más é sin atá i gceist agat)

Another question regardin our friend the copula.

Ó Siadhail has another area where he discusses the má + copula, which has special forms. However, in the Exercises section for that chapter, he introduced two forms that he

A - never even taught to in the damn chapter, or
B - made a typo in the answer key

I'm trying to determine which so I can decide what is correct and what's not. Specifically:


Marab é sin an múinteoir, níl sé anseo ar chor ar bith.
Maran thusa Cáit, ní bheidh sé sásta ar chor ar bith.

Are Marab and Maran typos, or correct for Cois Fhairrge Irish? Thank you!

A Dhomhnaill,
one way to think about it, is to think of the copula as a referencing particle , with the first pronoun in a special disjunctive form after the copula and the the second in a normal disjunctive form at the end of the phrase.

Example 1: Is (s)í an múinteoir (s)í.
and compare to
Example 2: Chuala mé ag caint (s)í

In the copular phrase the last pronoun refers to the subject ('she' whoever she is), and the definite noun phrase 'the teacher' refers to the thing she acts as

'Í an múinteoir' is the predicate phrase ('is the teacher')
'Is í an múinteoir í' is the full copular phrase ([referencing particle] is-the teacher-she)

Despite the historic similarities between 'is' (copula) and 'is' (verb), it seems to me that the first pronoun is acting as the predicative existential verb, and the copula as a marker, or rather that the copula as predicative verb and pronoun got mixed at some juncture

The copula could further be thought of as having a) form, b) function and c) position. It's basic raison d'etre is to link to notions together and to refer to the link unambiguously, that is, it allows one to refer not just to things (as nouns and adjectives do), but to relationships, and so is kind of like a conjunction, but more emphatic:

Is gasúr maith é
Chuala mé gur maith an gasúr é
An gasúr is fearr
Gasúr darb ainm Séamus

A Bhirn, only yesterday I read an analysis of the Irish copula that concluded it is a particle rather than a verb. (If you're interested, you can read it here:http://dingo.sbs.arizona.edu/~carnie/publications/PDF/Thesis/Thesischapter4TaIs. pdf.) I was sceptical, but I was pretty much convinced with the point about ellipsis: The usual way to answer a question is by repeating the finite verb, plus any pre-verbal particle(s). But you can't answer a question with only the copula; you need to respond with a predicate (even if this is only the "dummy pronoun" ea) which the copular form precede like a particle.

A Dhomhnaillín,

Would this have anything to do with the fact that is also works as a logical and function in some phrases, replacing agus (and perhaps in some sense pointing out a stronger linkage)?

Somewhere I also got the idea (perhaps wrong) that you could make a copular question with only the an particle but no verb.

This makes me think that is really doesn't work as a verb in copular sentences, but more like an and function.

As a logical what?

quote:

Somewhere I also got the idea (perhaps wrong) that you could make a copular question with only the an particle but no verb.

That's exactly correct. (E.g. An múinteoir é?). In fact, similarities like these constitute one of the arguments presented in the paper I linked to. (One of the weakest, in my opinion, which is why I didn't mention it above.)

quote:

This makes me think that is really doesn't work as a verb in copular sentences, but more like an and function.

Now you've lost me. I don't see any resemblance at all between the type of predication enabled by is and the functions of a conjunction like agus.

OK maybe I had some terms mixed (broim inchinn).

Logical AND operator, not function...

And the resemblance is weak, I know.

Of course I'm not trying to say that the copula itself could work in place of agus... just the same combination of letters in some cases... like "Dia is Múire duit".

Well, maybe I'm not thinking clearly again. I'm posting this and going home for the night.

And of course a fada went where it didn't belong.

"Dia is Múire duit".

'Is' can be a contraction of 'agus' as well

Somewhere I also got the idea (perhaps wrong) that you could make a copular question with only the an particle but no verb.

That's correct so far as I know. E.g. "An dalta thú?" "Sea."