I've been studying this language for somewhere on the order of 6 months, and I constantly surprise myself in how much I have learned and how far I have come...but, I'm sure some of you understand how I feel when I say: It's never enough! Hearing the language, studying it just makes me want more.
What direction do I take in my learning?
I'm a pretty self-directed learner. And, other language learning has come easily enough for me, but this one is especially trying :)
It still hasn't completely "clicked" with me. Those of you who have a secondary language that is not your own might know what I mean-- that moment you realize that you "get it"... I don't mean to suggest speaking it fluently, but when you can conceptualize HOW the language gets put together, when you want to say something
I realize that such "clicking" normally takes a few years, and I am certainly being impatient :P But, I would like to know how you (non-native speakers) directed your studies.
What do you recommend first mastering? Verbs? The prepositional aspect of the language? The grammar itself (séimhiú, urú, genitive case, etc)? I can't tackle them all at once, my mind just doesn't work that way :P I have a basic understanding of the grammar elements, but am not yet mindful in applying it correctly (which, I assume comes with time and years of speaking).
It is the prepositional end of things that gets me the most, because I still don't have an overall scope on how things are set up, what route to choose when communicating my ideas. It seems that a lot of times, where English (or most other romance languages) would use a verb...Irish chooses Bí and a prep pronoun. I've really got to get a handle on that bit.
When did Irish "click" for you, and what kind of direction did you go in to get there?

I don't know that I've ever had an entire language "click" for me. It's a series of small epiphanies, not one great satori. You're working with verbs, you get hung up on some aspect of them (objects of verb-nouns, for instance), and you struggle with that until one day--*click*--the logic of them finally falls into place for you and you wonder how you could've been so foolish not to have understood it before. Then you realise you don't have a handle on when to use the conditional, and you struggle with that until another *click*. And so, feature by feature, until overall you're no longer struggling, you're swimming.

For me personally, I think the "click" you are talking about comes when I can finally start saying things like "screw the logic, that's just how they do it."

I think a lot of the hiccups that cause those pauses in learning are directly related to our egos saying "I just haven't found the answer yet, but I will." I know that I am personally guilty of thinking that my language history with English is good enough for Irish...but as most know...English doesn't mean a thing in the world of Irish.

Once you feel comfortable with going beyond the basic "Teach Yourself" courses, which are for the most part all very similar in design...the next step is finding someone to practice with.

Have you tried looking for pen pals as Gaeilge.

I have been looking myself for them, but there are not many out there for Irish. If there is anyone here who knows of good pen pal sites for Irish let me know...my google searches have not been very productive.

Between here, the forum on www.Irishgaelictranslator.com and that Irish language social networking site (which I always seem to forget the URL for...Aonghus knows it...) you should have little trouble finding pen pals.

Domhnailín...that's exactly what I mean...all those little epiphanies that make you realize you are that much more proficient in the language. Though, for Spanish it was more of a big "holy crap...I can speak this language!" It took leaving the country to figure out that all of those years of ordering burritos in the tienda down the road and going to class paid off..haha. But, I also took Spanish for 6 years before realizing it.
Irish certainly is quite a mountain to climb, and I guess I should probably start focusing on writing in it and working on it from there. I was actually going to post part of my initial post as Gaeilge, but I chickened out. I didn't want to scare you guys, or get you wondering what I thought I was playing at..haha. I know well and good that I am nowhere near ready to attempt butchered Irish sentances in public..haha.
As for making leaps and bounds...I've already climbed the mountain of pronunciation, for the most part. I fully realize my pronunciation probably still sucks. But, I am so much happier than I was about four months ago, thinking I was never going to figure out how bhfuil could sound the way it did. I spent nearly two months learning the grammar theory, before I put the book down and decided that I had to find some recordings or something. It's hard to learn the theory of a language when you can't visualize what the words sound like. It's been a long journey and it hasn't even been close to a year. Ha.

And as for applying English- I always get stuck doing that. Or Spanish, or French..ha. But, they're all latin based languages (well...English is to a certain degree) and they have nothing to do with Irish (save a few cognates that I am thankful for...ha).

Do you guys recommend learning one verbal form at a time, or one whole verb (and all it's conjugations) at a time?
I'm doing it differently than I did when I was taught Spanish, because I can't memorise very well. I'm going through every verb individually and learning all of it's forms. This, instead of learning the imperfect of say, ten or 15 different verbs. Does it make sense to do it this way? I was thinking of doing it this way for the first 11 and the copula, and then just learning how the system works for all of the rest of them. Half the battle of self-learning is deciding how to teach yourself... haha.

As for the penpal thing, that sounds great. When I get better, I may even employ the use of Skype, since it's free and amazing.

quote:

Irish language social networking site (which I always seem to forget the URL for...Aonghus knows it...)

http://anlionra.net

I had an excellent Irish teacher in secondary school, his name's Michael Lowry. On the left-hand side of his whiteboard, he had about a foot of horizontal space dedicated to prepositions. We learned a different preposition every week, i.e. all the people "agam/agat/aige/aici/againn/agaibh/acu". Also, every day he'd start class with a recite of "Scéal Sheáin" aloud using whatever tense he said. For instance, he might say "Scéal Sheáin Aimsir Chaite", and we'd all burst into chorus with:

Chuaigh Seán suas an staighre
Chonaic sé an tsíleáil
Chuala sé torann thíos faoi
Tháinig sé anuas
Thug Máire milseáin dó
Dúirt sé "go raibh maith agat"
D'ith sé na milseáin
Fuair sé a chóipleabhar
Rug sé ar a pheann
Rinne sé a obair bhaile
Bhí tuirse air

Worked wonders.

Blackmariah,

When it comes to verbs, Irish is a very good language to be learning. I have always felt that Irish has a very simple system of conjugation when compared to other languages, especially Romance languages like Spanish and French.

The biggest problem for me has always been the meaning of verbs.

But as for the question of is it better to learn a single verb form for all verbs vs. all verb forms for a single verb...

When I was in school, I "tried" to learn Spanish. The textbook I used loved teaching a verb form for all verbs. For instance, it started with the present tense of ar,er,ir verbs. And then in the next chapter it taught the past tense of ar,er,ir verbs...and then the present, and then the conditional...

This method is pretty good, and seems to be very popular. If you had any success with the other languages using this method, I would keep with it because your mind as been trained to learn this way.

Your question is very similar to one that I have about nouns and their forms. Is it better to learn the forms of a noun from a single group, or for all groups of nouns?

For instance, does anyone here think that it would be better if a course avoided hitting a learner right away with nouns from multiple declinations and instead say concentrated on M1 nouns, and then in the next section concentrated on the F2...just a thought.

And before someone says they do...most of the books that I have like to give all the rules for a certain case all in one section. For example, they will talk about the genitive form, and them list the rules for M1 nouns, then F2...in a single section. This works well if you are looking for information about the genitive case, but would it be better if a book had one chapter only on M1 nouns and all it's forms. Then in chapter 2 concentrate on F2 nouns...and so forth.

The only problem I see with this is that it would hinder a person from learning by theme which seems very popular now because not all nouns by theme belong to the same groups...

And thanks for the links for Irish Pen Pals...I will try them soon. I have been looking for people out there for a while now. The largest group of "potential" Irish speakers I have found comes from My Language Exchange.

http://www.mylanguageexchange.com/Default.asp

However, if you search for people from Ireland you get around 4000 people. If you search for people whose native language is Irish, (worldwide not just in Ireland) you get about 550 people, if you search for people worldwide who want to practice Irish you get around 8000!!!

Now look for people from Ireland who are native speakers of Irish who want to practice it with people...you only get around 40 :(

Now it is important to remember that this site is for people to learn other languages, so most of the people who have Irish may actually be there because they want to learn German, or Hindi, or something else...but over the years I have tried to make contact with about 200 people from this site who say they are fluent speakers of Irish and wish to practice with others...I think in 8 years of being here...I have only found about 20 people who wrote back to my initial letter. Most of which informing me that they don't really speak the language.

This is the problem I have been having with finding Irish pen pals...has anyone else had these types of problems?

(Message edited by do_chinniúint on November 12, 2008)

I've never had a penpal for Irish, I've always practised my written Irish by talking to people on MSN I don't know if that can count.

If you're not particularly good at memorisation, then I'm not sure it makes sense to force yourself to learn verb conjugations by rote. They'll stick better if you can embed them in phrases. That is, rather than learn, "Chonac, chonaicís, chonaic sé, chonaic sí, chonaiceamair" etc., it would make more sense to learn a little story like the one Tomás gives.

In your position, without a partner to practice with, one of the best things to do is to read. There's a great deal of Irish available online, some of it simple enough that even beginners could tackle it. When you get stuck on a construction that simply doesn't make sense--it wasn't in the grammar summary you read or didn't click when you read it--ask about it here. In the meantime, you'll pick up enough of the common conjugations that later it will be more a matter of filling in a few gaps rather than learning them all from scratch.

Agus scríobh! Is cuma nach bhfuil gach aon rud foirfe ar fad. The people here are very generous about gently correcting the Irish of someone who's making an honest attempt to learn. It's only by making mistakes that we learn; if you're afraid to say anything until it can be flawless, you'll get anywhere.

I'm learning a minority language and so there are only 8000, or 550, or 40, potential penpals! What do I do?
Brother, it's even worse than you think. Among those 8000, or 550, or 40, how many do you imagine are people you would particularly like to correspond with, or they with you? Practice for practice's sake soon grows dull, and I imagine even sooner for the native speaker in the exchange, who has no need of it.

Maybe I'm not a very good letter-writer but most of my casual exchanges in Irish about Irish stop at that and don't go on to become voluble, long-running correspondence. I do keep up some correspondence of that sort in Irish but it's with people I enjoy writing to, who happen to write in Irish. If they were to drop Irish tomorrow, I'd keep writing to them in English.

If you want to write to someone in Irish my advice would be to become active (and I mean active trí mheán na Gaeilge) in Irish social circles - this alone will do wonders for your Irish! - and look around for people with whom you have common interests besides the language.

I wonder is it better to learn X first or Y first?
Both ways are valid. People have done both and become fluent. Less talkee more learnee.

Who cares in the end whether you learn Irish by the truly optimal method? Try something and if it doesn't make sense, try something else. Any reasonable method yields better results than standing at the crossroads talking about it.

In your position, without a partner to practice with, one of the best things to do is to read.
I'd go a step further and say that's one of the best things to do even with a partner to practice with... but I'm out of time now. Off to go see a man about a dog, will respond to more of this later or tomorrow.

Irish does, indeed, have a simple verbal system. It is much simpler than Spanish and French. I think once I have the first 11 and the copula down... It will cease to be an uphill battle. My only worry will be how to properly apply them...and I can deal with that.
The way I'm dealing with the declensions and masc/fem noun situation is to ignore the declensions. I figure it's a useless way for me to learn the genders and genitives of nouns. A 4 or 5 year old bunscoil student doesn't learn using declensions. They just hear it until it sounds right...which, is, to be quite honest...what I pretty much did with Spanish. Ha.
I learned enough grammar to be dangerous, but ultimately what made me a speaker was hearing it often enough and reading enough to know what sounded right and what didn't. I play three instruments...so maybe I'm just an auditory person?
If anyone thinks this is unwise, though...please inform me otherwise. If I don't need to learn this via the declensions, I'd rather not.
In my vocab lists, I'm learning all the forms together. I'm putting the noun's gender, its npl, gen, & gen plu all together...and learning it like that.
I might start using sentances, as Tomás' song will most likely prove invaluable. I couldn't tell you half of what I learned in my 6 years of Spanish classes...but, I can still recite "Los Días de la Semana" y "La Canta de Los Países"... word for word. I would not be suprised if I am sitting in a rocking chair at 85 humming..."Luuuunes, Marrrtess, Miercoles, Jueves, Vierrrnesss, Sabado, Domiiingooo"... yeah...you get the picture.
Btw...if you, Tomás, or anyone else has other rhymes or songs...they are silly...but incredibly useful. If I were more capable in this language, I'd make a few up on my own.
As for reading...I have purchased "Harry Potter agus an Órchloch", I try my damnest to read Beo and Lá Nua every day. I've downloaded all of the Nósmag pdfs... I have Irish language movies, the whole first series of In The Name of Fada, An Grá Faoi Ghlas (which is extremely cheesy and great fun to watch). I even went out of my way to download about 30 recordings, and copy 30 transcripts of some old lady belt out old stories as Gaeilge. I read and listen to those, too. And, of course, I come here...and muddle through your posts, sometimes catching on, sometimes not. :)
I'm not particularly excellent in Irish...but I try my hardest to be interesting...so if anyone wants to be my penpal <3 haha... Those websites seem fargen confusing.

We are all basically long-distant (but hopefully not armchair) Gaeilgeoirí and cannot expect the luxury of immersion in a flow of natively spoken Irish with the constant percussion of native speech on our eardrums.

My part-remedy (or pet-remedy!) for that would be something along the lines of "An litir bheag" http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/learngaelic/an_litir_bheag/index.shtm l
as available on Alba for aspiring Scots-Gaelic learners. There are two versions pitched at two different levels - and the content is very interesting too. It's accompanied by a natively spoken podcast.

There are plenty of basic courses in Irish but there is little in the line of assistance with regards to helping people to sustain and develop their language abilities. People arrive at a certain stage and then are forced to stumble up and down a poorly lit narrow corridor of knowledge. And there's no in-between stability: if your Irish doesn't get better, it gets worse. Good facilities are a good incentive.

For example, take the news bulletin on RnaG: why can't they provide transcripts for the parts that are prescipted anyway? Three times a week would suffice.

That's basically how I originally gained a bridgehead in German.

There are some great facilities on the internet (focal.ie, beo.ie, an ceann seo etc) but what is missing is a facility that provides topical and interesting text-cum-speech. I believe it would bring a lot of people across that gap between uncertainty and fluency in comprehension that very few have been able to bridge hitherto.

I wouldn't like to know how many Gaeilgeoirí have tuned into RnaG and - completely discouraged - switched off again forever after a few minutes?

My motto for the day is then (and sorry in advance):

Transfix with transcipts!



An gcuirimid Gaeilge air?

I am sooooo in agreement with you on that. I find that things with Irish subtitiles helps me immensely. Not so much with english subtitles...but, they would be more helpful than nothing at all.
That Litir Bheag thing is great. I've seen it before. I love Gàidhlig as well, and would like to learn it, eventually. The BBC also has this Beag ar Bheag thing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/
Pretty good stuff. BBC's Blas is nowhere near that cool, and is more concerned, methinks, with talking about testing... Though Giota Beag is cute, and helped me when I was first starting out. (Ultimately helped me decide to focus on the Ulster dialect).
Maybe we could all send e-mails, or perhaps send one big e-mail to RnaG, and ask them if they could provide transcripts a few days a week for the learning? Maybe the BBC would be interested? I figure it's worth a try. They might consider it, if they know there are people who will use it??

Ormondo, ar iarr tú ar RnaG a leithéid a dhéanamh?

Aontaim leat, a Ormondo....

I agree that places like this would be more ideal for creating chances for people interested in meeting others who share common interests such as Ireland, Irish, ect...

Everyone is different when it comes to learning. Myself, I like to know the rules. I am one of those people who cannot just accept without some reason for doing so. That's why when I do finally breakdown and "accept that's how they do it," it really is a big deal for me.

As far as RnaG is mentioned as a tool for learning, I believe that it can only help a learner in one major way. It is a place to hear Irish spoken and to synchronize with the language.

If it is to become a major tool for learning, then I honestly believe there needs to be more shows with people in live conversation. If there are more shows that are scripted, and a lot of them are...then it is not really helping anyone more than audio recordings that come with a language course. Granted there are more recordings over a broader scope of topics...but it is in actual live conversation that we see the language thriving, and enforces the notion that this is a language that is worth learning and using because people are actually using it. I believe that if more live news shows, or live news updates, along with more chat shows about specific topics...it might be a better tool for learners.

I am not dogging RnaG, because I listen to it daily.

Sheol mé ríomhphost chucu le déanaí. Ach ní mór níos mó ná ceann amháin a sheoladh chucu chun frithfhreagairt a spreagadh, is dócha. Déanfaidh mé arís é gan mhoill.

quote:

Maybe we could all send e-mails, or perhaps send one big e-mail to RnaG, and ask them if they could provide transcripts a few days a week for the learning?

Wouldn't say no to that!

Ormondo, tchíom go bhfuil tú cuid mhaith níos fearr i nGaeilge ná i mBéarla, tá ceist agam cad é mar a d'fhoghlaim tú do chuid Gaeilge?

Is deacair a rá, a Thrigger, agus níl mé lán cinnte de fós... an cheist seo, tá's agat...

Ach tá saghas gnáthaimh ann a chabhraíonn uaireanta, sórt machnaimh, Zen atá i gceist d'fhéadfaí a rá, b'fhéidir.

Is é cuspóir an mhachnaimh seo ná an aigne a dhíriú go dian ar an idirdhealú idir bhradán agus bhaoite. (Leid: seachnaítear an baoite!)

Cara an peann. Is smaoineamh maith é sin. Táim fé spreagadh!

(Message edited by ardri on November 13, 2008)

I find that watching the drama on tg4.tv has really helped me, and in a relatively short time. I first started watching Ros na Run about a year ago, and could barely make out the occasional "go raibh maith agat." I have consistently watched it and other programs (like Aifric), and now I'm understanding up to 80% of the speech. The subtitles help to confirm to you what you think you are hearing, or quickly set you straight if you mis-hear/understand. Of course, this was in addition to listening to rnag (even when i don't understand), independently reading (books, websites), and studying (independently or in a class).

It helps too, that Ros Na Rún is a pretty humorous program. :)

I feel that if I listen to RnaG too much, or any other audio, where there is no transcript...and without the plus of video (to identify body language and read lips)... I get really lost. lol. I do listen to it about once a week, though. It's actually a pretty good indication of progress! I generally feel pretty satisfied when I come away from it with a general idea of what's going on...or at least a cúpla focal.
I want to watch Aifric...but, I figure, one thing at a time. I'm not entirely caught up on Ros na Rún yet!

It's so funny to me how incredibly demanding this language is. Everyone's like: "oh yeah... gave away my second born child for this really lovely grammar book, and I spend every waking moment (that I'm not working to save money for my trip to Tír Chonaill) strapped into headphones, watching Ros na Rún. I also cried when Yu Ming couldn't find any gaelgoirs to talk to in "Baile Átha Cliath" ...and then I cried again when he like, finally went to the Gaeltacht...because I was soooooo happpyyy!! But, don't tell anyone, okay?!"

....it's sick how easy it is to get mesmerised by the Irish language. It seems the more put-off, confused, and frustrated I get, the more I want. (Sounds a lot like dating for me...haha). Ní: Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge. Anois, is: Tá mé posta le Gaeilge.

(Message edited by blackmariah on November 13, 2008)

quote:

I feel that if I listen to RnaG too much, or any other audio, where there is no transcript...and without the plus of video (to identify body language and read lips)... I get really lost. lol.

I also find that I get lost when listening to Irish that's above my head. But I also feel that there's a benefit to listening in this fashion. I think that infants and very young children listen in a similar manner. That is, they may not understand what is being said, but they register the sounds and often mimic the sounds that they hear. I base this on observing how my children learned to speak English. I notice that even though I don't know what has been said, that later on when I hear the same thing the next time or so, I recall the sound pattern.

That is an interesting way to look at it. I read a book about infant language acquisition...called: "How Babies Talk". It said that an infant begins gaining language skills from the time it's in the womb. It actually picks up the language from trial and error. It hears things and stores up all of the information in it's giant baby head...lol... and eventually starts putting things together by babbling...until one day, all of the sounds click, and it speaks for the first time. It's quite a momentous accomplishment each of us make. But, apparently, language is innate to us.

The book did say that as we age, we have a very reduced ability to learn language that way, and they believe our minds stop functioning that way after our early youth. I am inclined to agree with them to a degree...but, thinking about how useful immersion is, I wonder a little. Of course, immersion is a lot different than listening to RnaG, because you're actually around people and can watch their body language (which is something a baby would utilize a lot in it's quest to speak). Overall...I doubt listening could hurt at all, and would ultimately probably help (in at least getting an idea of how Irish sounds and flows) but...I worry sometimes I might fall asleep at my desk...haha

A Blackmariah, thanks for mentioning the book "How Babies Talk." I looked at Amazon and bought a used copy for $1.04! I've always been intrigued about the process of aural learning, or whatever the proper term is for learning language by sounds. I've also been told, as you mentioned above, that we tend to lose the ability to learn by sounds as we grow older.

But to me, this ability of ours to learn the sounds of language is very similar to how a musician learns the bits and pieces of music and then finally puts them together when improvising. I think the term for that in music is "pre-hearing." I think of the sounds of language as a form of music, and these sound bites, whether in music or language, seem to be very easy as long as I listen to them enough.

I can't wait to get the book you mentioned; my grandson is just learning to talk and his father (my son) did a minor in linguistics recently so we'll have fun sharing the information in the book.

It's a good book. Very readable, very interesting. You should find some pretty interesting stuff in there. I picked it up at the library before I began studying Irish... because, I knew It would be a lot of self-study, and I wanted to know HOW language was acquired. Turns out I've become rather fond of lingustics.
There are a lot of interesting studies done, involving infants and the stimulations of various sounds. According to the book, infants are able to determine the difference between their native language, and a foreign one. Pretty incredible, some of the stuff in the book.

Cheers :)

quote:

According to the book, infants are able to determine the difference between their native language, and a foreign one

My two year old daughter distinguishes between Irish (spoken mostly to me), German (to my wife & our au-pair) and small bits of English to the rest of the world.

She varies the langauge she speaks to her brothers (who are trilingual too, and much older)

Here in the U.S. there is a hybrid of Spanish and English known as Spanglish. Is there such a thing as Gaeiglish? I couldn't even think of what to call a trilingual hybrid.

Ah, but she doesn't hybridise. Or even macaronise much.

And the worst I have heard from my sons has been application of the rules of one grammar to another language. (Usually German to English)

A Aonghuis, tá brón orm, I should have been more careful in my posting above, since I didn't mean to imply that anyone in your family engaged in macaronics. Here are a couple of macaronic puns I found at:

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Bilingual_pun

quote:

A young Canadian lad buys three cats and names them Un, Deux and Trois before heading back home across the river. His boat capsizes; he arrives home half-frozen but still alive, sadly crying «Maman! Maman! Un, Deux, Trois cats sank!»
(The punchline sounds like the first five numbers in French, un deux trois quatre cinq.)

Q - Why do French people only have one egg for breakfast?
A - Because one egg's 'un oeuf'. (one egg's enough)

And one in Irish:

quote:

Irish
Bhí beirt den IRA ag siúl síos Bóthar na bhFál i mBéal Feirste. Chonaic siad fear eile chucu. Dúirt an chéad fhear
"An gceapann tu go bhfuil an fear sin ina bhall den UVF?",
agus dúirt an dara fear
"Ní cheapaim."
A direct translation is

Two IRA members are walking down the Falls Road in Belfast. They see another man walking against them. The first of the men says
"Do you think he's a member of the UVF?",
to which the other replies,
"I don't think so."
"Ní cheapaim" is the Irish for "I don't think so", but also sounds like "Knee-cap him". Knee capping is a punishment notoriously used by paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland.

(Message edited by student on November 17, 2008)

Haha, seancheann é sin a Student!

Seo ceann eile fá Ghaeilge:

quote:

A Dubliner and his wife were stopped for speeding in the Gaeltacht
"Cad is ainim duit?" said the garda
"Sean" the Dub replied
Agus do bheann?"
"Toyota Hiace"

One of my Korean friends finds it funny that I'm becoming increasingly macronic in Korean company, with 'cen chanah' (whatever), 'mullé-yo' (don't know) and so on. Some words have become exclusively Korean, due to being practical or just new here, like food or animals (mogí -mosquito, jamjarí -dragon fly, memí -a big green sekada. Yes they have dragon flies in cities here!), some are just optional. When the council removed the 'karo sú' (shady boulevard of trees) there was a word for it...

A Aonghuis a chara,

I didn't know you had a new little one, new since I saw you last. Cad is ainm d'inion?

Frederike Béibhinn

Is maith liom macaronise and cheese.

*Cough*


A lady was in the delivery and when the little baby boy emerged, the doctor asked her what she wanted to name him.

"Juan", she replied.

Unbeknownst to her she was having twins, and when the second boy emerged, the doctor asked her what she wanted to name him.

She said, "Two."

Scríobh Student:

Here in the U.S. there is a hybrid of Spanish and English known as Spanglish. Is there such a thing as Gaeiglish?

Hmm, maybe Hiberno-English gets close???

Perhaps it doesn't mix words from the two languages as much as Spanglish (or Finglish back in its day) but at least in some sense, it is a hybrid.

If there was to be an English-Irish hybrid, more so than H-E, that couldn't be either Engrish or Ilish, for obvious reasons.

(Message edited by curiousfinn on November 18, 2008)

quote:

If there was to be an English-Irish hybrid, more so than H-E, that couldn't be either Engrish or Ilish, for obvious reasons.

Gaelish?

Englic?

"Béarlainn" ab ea sin.