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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (November-December) » Archive through November 04, 2008 » Need some help! « Previous Next »

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Jp Murphy (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 08:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hello there. I baught the Teach Yourself Irish by Ó Sé and Sheils in Febuary, but I really couldn't get into it. To put it bluntly I thought it was a waste of my money.

Up untill rather recently, I havn't been sure exactly where my ancesters came from in Ireland (I being based in Glasgow, Scotland), so I was rather... indifferent to the dialects and which I should learn. So I was planning on buying Michael O Siadhails, Learning Irish (Connaught Irish), because of its brilliant recommendations and it seems more aimed at the type of studying I would prefer - not just enough Irish to "get by" but a decent and thorough book that isn't overtly concerned about conversational teaching techniques.

Though I have found out that most of my ancesters came from Munster and one or two from Ulster. So I have made my mind up to study Munster Irish - forgetting subdialects right now - and have been looking around for sources.

I have found the old Teach Yourself Irish by Myles Dillon and Donncha O'Croinin - as recommended here and other forums - on Amazon with tapes for quite an affordable price.

I'm also adding New Irish Grammar by the Christian Brothers to the mix because of various recommendations.

So, basicially, I want to know how peoples expierence is with the TYI by Dillon and O'Croinin, is the Christian Brothers New Irish Grammar the same book as the Christian Brothers Graimear Na Gaedilge? Is this the right way to go about getting a thorough understanding of Munster Irish?

And are there any recommendations on further material?

Thank you for any help you can offer!

Jp Murphy

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 836
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 12:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Christian Brothers New Irish Grammar the same book as the Christian Brothers Graimear Na Gaedilge"

Standard Grammar

"YI by Dillon and O'Croinin"

Good book I think (as Irish learning books go...)

Progress in Irish is good. With that and TYI you will learn the copula, which is perhaps the hardest thing in the language

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 290
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 12:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I worked my way through Dillon and Ó Cróinín last year. It's terribly old-fashioned. The method used is traditional grammar-translation. (I.e. "Here's an explanation of a point of grammar. Now translate these exemplary sentences into Irish.") The vocabulary is more useful for discussing corn ricks than satellite antennae. And the usage has some features which were on the way out even at the time the book was written. (One fluent Irish-speaker told me, "I'm worried that book is teaching you how to talk like a 100-year old man from the bog.")

But none of this bothered me. I made frequent reference to Ó Siadhail and other sources to learn the grammar of other dialects and read a lot online to get a feel for current usage and vocabulary. Also, the people of Daltaí have been very generous in ironing out my archaicisms, particularly Dennis.

I think it really depends what you plan to use the language for. People often counsel against learning Munster because the Gaeltachtaí there aren't as vibrant as those elsewhere, particularly Connacht. But I don't expect to be going to Ireland anytime soon, so most of my exposure is going to be written anyway, either in books or over the 'Net, and I feel like TYI has prepared me well enough for that.

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Jp Murphy (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 04:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks for the reply guys! I just have a question, Bearn. By 'Standard Grammar' do you mean that the books teach the Official Standard Irish and not a Munster dialect?

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Wee_falorie_man
Member
Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 178
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 10:51 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I've been learning Munster Irish for a couple of years now. I started with Pimsleur - here's the link:

http://www.pimsleurdirect.com/languages/irish-language-courses

It is pretty basic (there are only 8 lessons) and it won't help you with spelling or grammar (it is entirely audio), but it forces you to start SPEAKING Irish right away. Best of all, you will utterly remember EVERYTHING that you've learnt from Pimsleur for as long as you live. Unfortunately, just when you start to catch on to the language, it ends.

When I finished Pimsleur (it only takes 2 weeks), I signed up with a GREAT on-line class called GaelTalk - here's the link:

http://www.gaeltalk.net/

It is very hard work but you will learn lots of Gaelic in only eight weeks. The best part of the course is the week-end sessions with a native speaker; this will ensure that your pronunciation will be pretty much perfect.

There is a Yahoo group that is learning Munster Irish - here's the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muskerry/

They are learning from a really good book called "An Ghaeilge" which is written in Polish. Fortunately, they have translated almost the entire book, so you won't have any trouble learning from it - here's a link for the book:

http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=4381

There is also an inactive group that was studying "Teach Yourself Irish" (Munster version) - here's the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYIMunster/

It has lots of good information and I was able to get a CD of the lessons from a person in the group.

Good Luck!

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 840
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 12:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yep -it's the Caighdeán

"that book is teaching you how to talk like a 100-year old man from the bog."

Like saying 'chuabhair'?

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 292
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 05:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Mar shampla. Nó "táir" in áit "tá(nn) tú".

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Wee_falorie_man
Member
Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 179
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 07:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yup, some of the stuff in Teach Yourself Irish sounds a little old-fashioned but all of it is good Irish that you will see in lots of great old books and poetry.

Thanks to TYI, when I was in Munster last year, I was the only person in my group (okay, I'll admit, it was a beginner's group) who understood when an elderly person said "dhá bhoin" (two cows).

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Smac_muirí
Member
Username: Smac_muirí

Post Number: 134
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 05:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is ag gabháil in aibíocht a bhíonn an cainteoir leis an aois gan amhras, go mbuailtear le leanbaíocht na haoise é. Ní thagann ciall roimh aois agus tá mé féin ag súil leis an 120 bliain a bhaint amach le cúnamh Dé! Tá aeróg nua-aoiseach sé troighe ó mo chloigeann, an taobh eile den bhalla anseo agus soitheach eile ar an simléir, ach ní bhíonn orm caint orthu ach go hannamh agus mura scuabfar den bhalla le gaoith iad, ní bheidh orm lámh a leagan ar cheachtar acu. Molaim gach cúrsa agus gach leabhar a 'dhéanamh'.

Dála an scéil a Fhir Bhig an Fhalóire, cá raibh tú le tamall, nó an raibh tú thart ar chor ar bith?

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Wee_falorie_man
Member
Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 180
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 11:33 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

cá raibh tú le tamall


Bhíos i gCorca Dhuibhne (An Buailtín, Dún Chaoin) agus lá amháin i Múscraí.

quote:

nó an raibh tú thart ar chor ar bith?


Ná sílfeá go mbeadh múineadh ort, a mhic?

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Smac_muirí
Member
Username: Smac_muirí

Post Number: 136
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 02:34 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is diabhalta an mac thú! Tuigim anois do scéal agus tuigim anois tú.

Tá súil agam go bhfuil an saol ag caitheamh go maith leat. An-ghnóthach anso, agus is maith go bhfuil ar ndóigh.

Sgf a Dhuine Uasail an Fhalóire,

S.

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Jp Murphy (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 07:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks for the suggestions Wee_falorie_man!

I'll definitely give Pimsleur a go with the TYI by Dillon. Could you recommend any thorough grammar books in the Munster dialect?

Again, thanks for the help everyone :)!

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Smac_muirí
Member
Username: Smac_muirí

Post Number: 138
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 05:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Wee falorie man shall certainly give you a good run down on what to look for JP. Good luck with the effort on the way up hill. A time shall come when you find it is downhill and plain sailing. Bain sult as - enjoy it as you go along as enjoyment is a necessary part of continuing any program.

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Wee_falorie_man
Member
Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 181
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 11:24 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks for the vote of confidence S.M.

I think the best grammar book of any Munster dialect is "Teach Yourself Irish" by Dillon and Croinin. It is a very thorough book of grammar points that are all illustrated with examples; the exercises help alot, too.

• The good news:
Teach Yourself Irish is invaluable for helping you to learn Munster Irish.

• The bad news:
Ironically, it is pretty much impossible to "teach yourself Irish" using ONLY this book - that's where Pimsleur, GaelTalk, An Ghaeilge, etc. come in handy.

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Trigger
Member
Username: Trigger

Post Number: 211
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 07:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

To be more specific TYI by Dillion teaches Muskerry Irish, but they mention a fact or two about Kerry Irish.

I got my book the other day (costed me 1p!) it is very old fashioned and was printed just after the Sean-chló been dropped.

gaeilgeoir.blogspot.com



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