did "náid" come from "naught" and contact with english? perhaps vice-versa (though I doubt it)?

Is dóigh liom é mar atá "náid" as láthair ó Ghaelainn na hAlban.

quote:

Is dóigh liom é mar atá "náid" as láthair ó Ghaelainn na hAlban.

Agus...? Nach bhfuil Gaeilg na hAlban i dteangmháil leis a’ Bhéarla fosta?

According to Dinneen this is actually an old Irish word - Náide, al. náid, nád, náda. Old Ir. Náte nay.

I am very concerned about starting out in learning Irish the "correct" way. I do not want to learn and then have to "un"-learn something as it is harder to unlearn some things.

In my case, I have a very good book with a couple of CDs. This is "Learning Irish" by Michael O. Siadhail, and, I am sure, the dialect used is Connact (sp?) or of that spoken in Connemara.

After all, what is the dialect of "standard" Irish?

If you, yourself, are now student of Irish who has achieved a decent level of communicative success, what would you do, knowing what you know now?

I have been stuck for over month as I really want to learn and to learn starting with the "right" step, so to speak.

I thank you for our help.

Anyse (pronounced like "a niece")

What has this to do with 'náid'?

Hi Anyse,

I wouldn't say there is a single "correct" way to go about it really. None of the standard textbooks will leave you fluent, but any of them will lay a solid foundation you can build on. You'll probably wind up consulting more than one of them before this is over anyway.

I started out focusing on Ulster Irish, then switched to Connemara a year later, when I fell in with a Connemara teacher. I had some things to relearn - and even now I have a few Ulster tendencies - but it wasn't and isn't as big a deal as some learners like to make of it. The language movement has had an unfortunate tendency to fetishize monodialectalism.

Most textbooks use the standard spelling and grammar, although word choice and pronunciation may be biased toward one dialect or another. Ó Siadhail is a bit unusual in that regard (i.e. extensively nonstandard spelling), which means it may not be the best choice if you do anticipate switching dialects soon. If you're not set on a particular dialect, you may find it easier to learn the standard first and then specialize.

Certainly if you were only going to learn one, having the standard would give you immediate access to a wider range of reading materials than would any particular set of dialectal forms. It shouldn't be an either/or decision though; in general fluent speakers today have both the standard and a dialect, and vary their own usage to suit the context. If that's your goal then starting with either one is OK. The main thing is just to start!

I've been learning for four years now and this is what's worked well for me:
1) Learn to read as soon as possible, and then read everything you can get your hands on. This is the best advice I can give you. It's How to Learn Irish Without Really Studying - at least it is once you get past that pesky "learn to read" bit at the beginning. Don't worry about understanding every single word - if you can get the gist of what you're reading, just read and let grammar, vocabulary and idiom soak in. They will, and then when you do get around to learning the actual rules they'll simply be codifying what you already have in your head.
2) Pick up all the Irish you can, from wherever you can. So what if you're studying Ulster Irish and "táid" is a Munster form? Learn it anyway! You'll eventually want to read all the dialects anyhow, so you'll need it at some point. Easier to acquire it now when it's in front of you than to go hunting for it later.
3) Find a teacher if possible. This probably goes without saying but I can't quite bring myself to leave it out.
4) TG4 is fine as entertainment but the quality of presenters' Irish varies considerably. In general, model your speech on what you read or on the people you hear on RnaG.
5) Keep it fun! If it ever becomes mind-numbing drudgery then something's wrong. Put the dictionary and the grammar away and go read a book or learn a song.

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TG4 is fine as entertainment but the quality of presenters' Irish varies considerably.

There's an easy way to know who is a native and who isn't: listen to the way people pronounce the r's in Irish. 99% of those who have only the English r sound when speaking Irish, are non-native speakers. The only native speakers who use only the English r sound when speaking Irish, are some young speakers from Munster (but then with their other consonants you'll know they are natives because they don't sound as English).

Tá go leor de na non-natives céanna arbh fhiú do mo leithéidse agus do do leithéidse bheith ag éisteacht leo is ag déanamh aithrise orthu toisc cruinneas agus saibhreas a gcuid cainte. Ní hí an fhoghraíocht a bhí i gceist agam go príomha (mar ba léir ón trácht thuas ar "what you read" a bheith inaithrise freisin.)

Mar an gcéanna mholfainn d'fhoghlaimeoir Béarla Mheiriceá a aird a thabhairt ar Bhéarla NPR seachas Béarla na seónna réaltachta, bíodh is gur cainteoirí dúchais iad láithreoirí an dá shórt de ghnáth.

I wasn't really talking about pronunciation (how would you get that from taking "what you read" as a model anyway?) so much as accuracy and richness of expression - and there are plenty of non-native speakers who could school us both in that regard.

The audio-cd enclosed with "Draíocht 5" - which is a school book - has native speakers from the main dialects - as well as non-native speakers - speaking a mild version of their respective dialects. The Draíocht series, as far as I know, covers the secondary school-level Irish curriculum.

I picked up a copy while back in Ireland recently out of curiousity as it is a wee while since I was in school myself. I also bought the book because as a non-native speaker I am a síorfhoghlaimeoir.

Schoolbooks, of course, are a good learning resource for adults too. Try - if you already haven't - for example http://www.gillmacmillan.ie/Ecom/Library3.nsf/pages/homepagenotes?OpenDocument or http://www.gillmacmillan.ie/Ecom/Library3.nsf/pages/homepagenotes?OpenDocument.

One fairly fast track way to get acquainted with a current affairs vocabulary is to read http://www.rte.ie/nuacht/ every weekday. After a few months you'll feel the daily buzz of success when you have begun to understand most of it without having to consult the dictionary. You can watch and listen to the bulletin as well.

Dialects are the bane and the blessing of every language. Norwegian is a particularly interesting case. Schoolkids learning English here in Germany are confronted with BE or AE (Irish and Scottish parents just have to grin and bear!) which causes problems when they change schools or teachers.

When my BE colleagues say "Word" as in "according to Bill Gates" they invariably depart from "W" and set off on a vowellercoaster eventually landing somewhere on the other side of the room with the "d" in their mouths. It goes without saying that - to the chagrin of every rhotic-patriot present - they don't bother to give the letter "r" even the merest of mentions in the process. And they won't take my "Word" for it either.

quote:

every rhotic-patriot

Ná bíodh imní ort. Tá níos mó againn ann!