A chairde,

I must again turn to the wiser people, for I am just a lowly beginner.

How would the next few phrases translate? I have planned some translations of my own, but obviously I think in an English or Finnish way, which may not translate idiomatically. Also, I'm rather sure there are some idiotic mistakes here, I may not lenite/eclipse correctly etc... I might even have picked completely wrong verbs.

1) Tell me, (insert name), my friend!

I ended up with two solutions, which may be both wrong...
-Through English: "Tell me..." I arrived to "Inis mé ... a chara!"
-Through Finnish: "Kerro minulle ... ystäväni!" I arrived to "Inis dom...." because Finnish uses the -lle suffix (for) with the pronoun.

Are these even communicative?

2) What was that noise/light/etc?

All I could figure out was "Céard bhí ar callan/solas?"

3) I don't know, but...

I thought "Níl fios mé, ach..." would be somewhere close

4) Shall we have some food/drink?

Building a "Shall (pron)...?" sentence is yet a mystery to me. Is there a mode comparable to "shall (pron)" of each verb or does this require extra words?

GRMMA

1)Inis dom, a chara/ Inis dom, a Sheáin
Inis dom, a Sheáin, a chara

2) Céard é sin?
What is that?

3) Níl a fhios agam, ach...
I don't know but

4) An n-íosfaidh muid bia/greim lena ithe
I just used the simple future

So I wasn't far from the truth with "Inis dom..." Anyway, this may end up incorrect without the complete context included. Finns may use the "Kerro (minulle)..." phrase to ask someone to "speak to me" (often in a friendly manner like "go ahead"). That would obviously be "Labhair dom", right?

Would "Céard é sin callán?" be correct for querying the source of a noise?

OK, let's assume that the noise in question repelled all the fish, would it be possible to extend the third phrase like "...ach d'imigh gach iasc"?

"An n-íosfaidh muid uisce beatha lena ól?" would then be a query whether we shall drink some whiskey?

Probably the positive or negative reply would be formed from íosfaidh?

Caithfidh mé dul a chodhladh anois. (???)

For (2), what Bearn has is present tense. For past, I would say "Cad ab é an gleo san?" "Cad ab é an solas san?" (Céard is nothing more than the Connacht form of cad.)

Edit: Would "Céard é sin callán?" be correct for querying the source of a noise?

"Whence?" would be "Cá (h)as?" Thus, "Cá (h)as an callán/gleo/tormán/srl san?"

OK, let's assume that the noise in question repelled all the fish, would it be possible to extend the third phrase like "...ach d'imigh gach iasc"?

Ach is "but", so I'm not sure what it's doing here. Agus would be a possibility, but then you need to repeat the subject. With a proper relative clause, it would be "Cá (h)as an callán a dh'imigh na héisc go léir?"

"An n-íosfaidh muid uisce beatha lena ól?" would then be a query whether we shall drink some whiskey?

Actual, that's "Shall we eat whiskey to drink?" For "shall we drink?" the form is An ólfaimíd (synthetic) ~ an ólfaidh muid (analytic). Again, if the intention is closer to "Let's drink some whiskey!" I would say "Ólfaimíd fuisce!"

(Message edited by Domhnaillín_Breac_na_dTruslóg on September 23, 2008)

"what Bearn has is present tense."

I just assumed they were the same! "Tump! Céard a tharla?/ Cad ab é an gleo sin?/Céard é sin?" I'm just trying handle the context, I think Curiousfinn wanted a more direct translation

So... alpha testing continues. B)

It appears that the "an" preceding a verb works much like the Finnish "-ko/-kö" suffix, requesting confirmation for the action...

Also it appears like http://www.irishdictionary.ie/ has their verb translator screwed up a bit... like sibh/muid were reversed???

This is one thing where Finnish idiomacy doesn't directly translate. Plenty of us use passive case like "juodaanko" of verbs instead of first person plural case "juommeko" (for "Are we going to/shall we drink?", or "Are we drinking?") in live speech and writing... while this isn't grammatically correct, it is the common way. It doesn't translate to English either because English passive mostly requires a party to be indicated, that performs the action.

Even closer to what I was looking for would be "juotaisiinko/joisimmeko viskiä" which is respectively the conditional passive/1st plural case... commonly used too, and again counter-grammatic because the condition to be met isn't mentioned.

Might "An ólfaidh muid u.b.?" carry over the essential question in a simple sentence?

Sounds like a question for a man called Jonas

quote:

Also it appears like http://www.irishdictionary.ie/ has their verb translator screwed up a bit... like sibh/muid were reversed???

Tá ceart agat! I use that conjugator regularly and I'd never noticed that before.

Besides the interrogative particle an, Irish also has the negative interrogative particle nach (ná in Munster), e.g. "Nach n-ólfaidh muid (Munster: "Ná hólfaimíd") uisce beatha?" "Won't we drink whiskey?"

Scríobh Domhnaillín:

Tá ceart agat! I use that conjugator regularly and I'd never noticed that before.

Yes also it only searches with the verb roots, not by conjugations, so I wasn't able to use it to determine the meaning of the íosfaidh part. Should have made a plain word search, would probably have figured that out then.

Hmm... the more common informal Finnish way to ask a friend if they wish to have some booze would be to ask "Otatko/otammeko/otetaanko viinaa?" which is literally about taking some booze. But if and apparently when "An ólfaimid (f)uisce (beatha)?" is good, I'll be content with that... It's obviously not necessary to attempt to gaelicize the grammatically pseudo-correct form of the informal question, but only the idea behind it.

For 2) and 3) I was thinking of a dialogue where two friends are fishing, when there's a loud noise emanating from somewhere. One friend asks the other: "What was that noise?" and he would answer: "I don't know, but all the fish are now gone."

"Cad ab é an gleo san?"
"Ní fheadar, ach dh'imigh na héisc go léir anois."

("Ní fheadar" is a Munster equivalent of "Níl a fhios agam".)

I don't know how much you've been following the other threads, but other possibilities for the second sentence in this context would be "Níl a fhios agam, ach tá na héisc go léir tar éis imeacht" or "..."tá na héisc go léir imithe anois". The first emphasises that this has just happened, the second that they went away and are staying away.

Besides the interrogative particle an, Irish also has the negative interrogative particle nach

Would "nach" be also used with those irregular verbs that take "ar" instead of "an" in positive interrogative mode?

well, I guess I already found an answer to this. The "ar" interrogative particle apparently only concerns the past positive case.

A Fhinn,

The past tenses in Irish (including the past habitual and conditional) were formerly formed with the help of the particle ro, which caused lenition. This merged with pre-verbal particles as follows:

an + ro = ar
ní + ro = níor
nach + ro = nár
go + ro = gur

Eventually, ro fell out of use in positive sentences and was replaced with do. This do, in turn, was also dropped and now survives only in some southern varieties. Its use before verbs beginning with a vowel sound (which includes fh, since this combination is silent) is rather more widespread. Dh'imigh would be an example of this. (The lenition here is optional.)

The lenition here is optional

Táim buíoch as an míniú sin. D'aithin mé "d'imigh" ach ní "dh'imigh."

Foirm Mhuimhneach is ea dh'imigh. I nGaelainn na hAlban deirtear "dh'imich", mar sin de is féidir go láithreodh an séimhiú i gcanúintí eile na hÉireann.

Agus d’fhéadfaí a ráidht féin gur foirm as Corca Dhuibhne "dh’-" roimhe bhriathra san aimsir chaite nó sa mhodh choinníollach srl. Is dóigh liom gur "d’" a úsáidtear ins na canúintí Muimhneacha eile.

Scríobh Domhnaillín:


an + ro = ar
ní + ro = níor
nach + ro = nár
go + ro = gur


Hmm. If I wanted to make a negative interrogative case of a verb that falls in the "ar" category, do I get this right...

Ar ith tú mo cheapaire? = Did you eat my sandwich?
Nár ith tú mo cheapaire? = Didn't you eat my sandwich?

OTOH if you didn't, and I wished to allow you to... could I use the "May you..." form, like this...

Go n-ithe tú mo cheapaire, a chara!

or is there a different way to form this kind of a sentence?

quote:

Ar ith tú mo cheapaire? = Did you eat my sandwich?
Nár ith tú mo cheapaire? = Didn't you eat my sandwich?

Tá an ceart agat.

quote:

Go n-ithe tú mo cheapaire, a chara!

Subjunctive/optative forms are rare outside of fixed phrases, mostly of a formal nature (e.g. Go ndéana Dia trócaire orainn! "May God have mercy on us!") so it sounds quite odd to hear them in a quotidian context such as this. You could use a direct order:

Ith mo cheapaire, a chara!

Or, if you prefer something more deferential:

Ar mhaith leat mo cheapaire (d'ithe)?

(Message edited by Domhnaillín_Breac_na_dTruslóg on September 26, 2008)

And... "Gur ith tú..." would at least seem to me like "Might you have eaten...?"

Gur ith tú = that you ate / have eaten

Yeah.

I'll try to figure out some other phrases and try my luck with them.

Oh, would Caithfidh mé dul a chodhladh anois be correct? At least that's what I have to do, it's 3 AM back here, LOL!

"Caithfidh mé dul a chodladh anois" (remove your h after the first d in "codladh") is right in standard Irish.

However, in Gaeltacht Irish I guess people would say:

Caithfead dul ag codladh (Munster)
Caithfidh mé a ghabháil ag codladh (Connemara)
Caithfidh mé a ghabháil a luí (Ulster).

(correct me if I'm wrong for Munster and Connemara)

Once again, the standard form is a blend of several dialects.

Dunno how the d became lenited. Weary eyes perhaps. GRMA.

I dtaca le Gaeilge an iarthair: "a chodladh" a déarfainn seachas "ag codladh" - ní heol dom go ndéarfadh na Muimhnigh féin "ag codladh."

Mar "dhul" a scríobhfainn féin an t-ainm briathartha úd dá mbeinn i dtreo an dheargcanúnachais, ach tá "ghoil" feicthe agam freisin. Ba dheacair liom a rá cé acu is dílse mar thraslitriú, ach ní déarfainn ná ní scríobhfainn "ghabháil" ar aon chuma - ní fhreagraíonn sé don fhuaim.

Ar ndóigh tá an gnáth-chaveat i bhfeidhm - glactar leo seo mar thuairimí foghlaimeora (nó 'tuairimí feólamóra' más fearr leat), óir sin a bhfuil iontu!

Abigail

quote:

Caithfead dul ag codladh (Munster)

Bheinn ag brath ar "dul im chodladh".

"Caithfead dul im codladh" would then be correct at least for Muster?

Not without lenition it wouldn't. im chodladh is an abbreviation of i mo chodladh, and mo always aspirates.

I'm not sure myself. Táim im chodladh is the usual way you'd say "I'm sleeping" in Munster. I've seen dul im chodladh (and dul im luí) before, but not dul ag codladh, which is why I asked.

Looking for something along the lines of "I gotta go to sleep", well I have seen some similar use of the phrases elsewhere, but havent found a conlusively correct setup.

Also I have now located some Irish learning material in Finnsih, by a guy named Panu, but somehow the site isn't really very logically built... he's a university professor, apparently on linguistics, but not web design. B) Also some of his explanation simply escapes me. Maybe not for long. I must have a better look if I find a better designed version.

Anyway, on his site, it says "caithfidh mé dul abhaile" means "I have to go home"... at least logically you would just replace the destination with where you have to go, "...dul a codladh" is suggested by www.irishdictionary.ie which I have mostly used. Which I intended originally, but I must have been really drowsy by then.

(Message edited by curiousfinn on September 29, 2008)

(Message edited by curiousfinn on September 29, 2008)

(Message edited by curiousfinn on September 29, 2008)

Tá gá agam leis an codladh. That's just a guess. I have seen Tá gá agam leis an airgead.

Ah, like "Is need at-me for money/sleep/etc"?

(Message edited by curiousfinn on September 29, 2008)

Tá gá agam le - I need

"Táim ag dul a chodladh" is what I'd say.

Like "I'm (at) going to sleep"?

Hmm. Looking at the little two-letter words more closely... it looks like "le do thoil" (please) would literally translate approximately as "with your agreement/consent"? Or am I "deep in the forest" with this?

(Message edited by curiousfinn on September 29, 2008)

quote:

Anyway, on his site, it says "caithfidh mé dul abhaile" means "I have to go home"... at least logically you would just replace the destination with where you have to go, "...dul a codladh" is suggested by www.irishdictionary.ie which I have mostly used.

I use that dictionary often myself and what it suggests is, in fact, "to go to sleep = dul a chodladh". (That is, with lenition.)

Note that the phrases in that dictionary tend to be given in semi-conjugated form. Take the example "to be sleepy = codladh a bheith ort". This makes it seem like saying "I feel sleepy" is as simple as replacing bheith with the appropriate personal form, namely táim, but that actually produces completely nonsense. Ort here is "on you" and is what needs to be conjugated for the first person whereas the verb is impersonal, i.e. Tá codladh orm "sleep is on me".

quote:

it looks like "le do thoil" (please) would literally translate approximately as "with your agreement/consent"?

Tá an ceart agat. Any guesses what the plural form (used when speaking to more than person) would be?

(Message edited by Domhnaillín_Breac_na_dTruslóg on September 29, 2008)

Tá an ceart agat. "Dul a chodladh." I'm starting to see H's everywhere, whether I put them there or not.

Would "le bhur thoil" be the plural then?

But I can say that perhaps I have now found my favorite learning aid. Actually the chances for other methods are limited for me, maybe Irish is taught at university level here, but I don't know other local sources of education. And for some reason, I'm horrified by the idea of entering a school-like institution again. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but look at what happened just last week...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_school_shooting

(Message edited by curiousfinn on September 29, 2008)

(Message edited by curiousfinn on September 29, 2008)

quote:

Would "le bhur thoil" be the plural then?

Close: The plural possessive adjectives (ár, bhur, a) cause eclipsis rather than lenition. Thus, le bhur dtoil.

quote:

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but look at what happened just last week...

You are being paranoid. There could be a hundred times as many school shootings as there are right now and you'd still be more likely to be killed on the road driving to the school than at the school itself. It's a well-known human cognitive bias to overestimate risk based on the spectacularness of the event.

Well, yes I know that. Also those are a rather recent phenomenon back here, some of the first notable had happened in the US at least 20 years before our first if I recall it right. Be it that or something else, I can't see myself enrolling to a school again very soon. For most things that I do now, I have had mostly life school and very little education after high school. And I find that it is afterall a better method. Of course it is good to know the theory behind practical work.

But then, if you're paranoid, it doesn't mean you aren't being stalked. B) Anyway, SARS for example killed less people globally than traffic did during that year in Finland alone. Yet we don't annually make global headlines for our traffic deaths. SARS was a transient event and so it seems to be the case of the birdie flu too. Hopefully the shootings remain so too.

I never feared contracting either disease. Heck, I drive a lot and sometimes some really pissed off people visit my cinema, yet I never start my day being afraid of driving or going to work. Not that I haven't had close calls in the traffic, or never got threatened because someone didn't like how they were served. I've been directly threatened at the pubs, witnessed many a fight, and never feared going back. Sometimes, just sometimes, I have grown a certain dislike against some pub, but that's for the service I received. And I usually don't mind lousy service as long as the clerks are nice.

And no, if I should enroll to a school (or enrock, for that matter) the least of my fear would be getting shot. One thing why I don't like schools, is that I never went to one (except driving school) where I didn't get bullied for most of the time. While I had friends, I had tenfold bullies. But guess that's the same for many others.

Oh, and as it seems, the root word is "toil", with the lenition and eclipse removed... meaning "will", so I guess "le do thoil/bhur dtoil" could also be loosely interpreted "if you will".

Also it appears that Irish has no formal You pronoun but only the informal, right?

While English would use their singular You for both the formal and plural case too, Finnish uses the plural case for formal... the distinction between formal and informal comes up with perfect and pluperfect cases of the assigned verb...

For a perfect past case phrase "You have taken..." Plural (in)formal would go like "Te olette ottaneet..." and singular formal... "Te olette ottanut..." BTW this works very Irish way, the closest to literal English translation is "You are after taking..."

Here the conjugated "olla" verb (to be) that forms the perfect is conjugated according to the pronoun, but the "ottaa" verb (to take) is conjugated according to the number of people addressed. Pluperfect would have "olla" in past case "olitte". Respectively the literal translation would be "You were after taking..."

But again,

Táim ag dul a chodladh.

GRMA Aonghus for that.

so I guess "le do thoil/bhur dtoil" could also be loosely interpreted "if you will".

There's actually an equivalent expression which is a closer match, más é do thoil é ("if it is your will").

Also it appears that Irish has no formal You pronoun but only the informal, right?

This is true of Irish, but Scottish Gaelic uses the plural as a polite form. (The linguistic term is T-V distinction, from the French pronouns tu and vous.) I'm not sure if this is a specifically Scottish innovation within Goidelic or a relic of a more widespread distinction. After all, English once had a T-V distinction which was later lost.

After all, English once had a T-V distinction which was later lost.

Doen't the British Monarch still refer to itself as "We" (hence "The Royal 'We'")?

"Royal we" (pluralis majestatis) is something different. The idea behind it is that the sovereign is not speaking only for him- or herself but on behalf of the entire apparatus of state.

Mark Twain once said, "Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'". Now there's a saying to get tattooed on your arse!

Ba cheart do Mharcas Ó Díseáin filí na Gaeilge ceithre chéad bliain ó shoin a áireamh chomh maith. 'Sinn' a bhíodh ag an bhfile len é féin, céad phearsa, a chur in iúl.

Dara pearsa, iolra an ómóis, luaite anseo ag an Nualéargas: http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/person.htm#hoef

"Mark Twain"

Ah, for a Gaelic Marc!

"While I had friends, I had tenfold bullies"

When I was in school, I made a point of, as I do now, of knowing a broad section of people -I could walk up to the popular people and joke with them (of course knowing when not to) and with the lest popular. People see that, and so you'll always have friends as you are someone approachable. This reduces the chances of you been tagged as an outsider with no back-up

Learn to have cop too, always helps

Good point, a Bhearn. Only it wouldn't have been likely to work very well in my situation... Especially in primary and secondary school (pri 7-12 yrs, sec 13-16 yrs), the so called popular people were mostly elitists or behaved so, although I have no idea what made them feel so elite... most weren't even from very rich or otherwise recognized families. While they didn't usually pick on the few "odd birds", they mostly ignored them totally. Then there was this layer of people who kissed up to the elite and bullied the odd birds. And even some of the odd birds weren't similarly odd enough to come together.

The authorities usually weren't of much help, and going to them mostly increased the bullying. At the worst times I wasn't much nicer than any of the bullies, but I came over it. Boy did I also threaten some bullies with dear revenge, but never took it on them... I could have easily become a school shooter if that was caused by being constantly bullied (one thing the latter two shooters have implied as their reason).

There's one guy who was ultimately the worst of my bullies, he started it in kindergarten and it went on for 12 years. After that (at 16) he was sent to a fostering institution in another town, he had to be there until 18 or go to prison... that was for a miscellaneous set of minor and mediocre felonies including burglary, animal torture, pocket picking, shoplifting, armed threatening, GTA, (drunk) driving under the age, etc etc... well he was really screwed up, but even he didn't start a shootout at school.

Well, entering high school, most of the bullies had not applied (or been smart enough to be chosen in), most of the worse elitists went elsewhere, and the smarter elitists had grown up enough to look outside their own circles... and the few odd birds fit in the chain better. Not that there was no bullying.

Professional was worse than high at first, it was in another town, I was the only one out of 20 who had finished or even tried high school... and almost the only one from outside of the town. Luckily towards the end of pro, I started getting on with the others, as some of the worst bullies had dropped after the second year. One of them got expelled mid-second year for repeated malicious behavior. I was lucky to pass the tests with flying colors, but not so lucky as to find steady work, until three years ago.

Got my eyes crossed and the things a wee bit wrong. Primary was of course lower grade 7-12, upper 13-16, then "lukio", our closest equivalent of high school. And then vocational school.

But enough of this. I'm vandering off the topic at a rapid pace.

(Message edited by curiousfinn on September 30, 2008)

A Dhomhnaillín, scriobh tú:

quote:

The plural possessive adjectives (ár, bhur, a) cause eclipsis rather than lenition. Thus, le bhur dtoil

And now, if singular "a" causes lenition and plural "a" eclipsis... will this lead to cases where sg and pl can only be told by watching for the effect?

(Message edited by curiousfinn on October 03, 2008)

quote:

And now, if singular "a" causes lenition and plural "a" eclipsis... will this lead to cases where sg and pl can only be told by watching for the effect?

Absolutely. In fact, there's a three-way contrast because it's only the masculine singular that lenites; the feminine singular prefixes h to vowels but otherwise has no effect. Thus:

a bhroc "his badger"
a broc "her badger"
a mbroc "their badger"

a athair "his father"
a hathair "her father"
a n-athair "their father"

In west, they have 'a' for his/hers/ours/yiers/ and theirs, with context and mutation being the key

A Dhomhnaíllin,

Do these gender rules apply in its/their (non-personal) mode, about animals and material objects?

A Bhearn,

By "yiers", do you mean "yours"?

And then, another clumsily built sentence that most readers will probably laugh at... but here goes.

Luchtaím miasniteoir agus fagaim do obair.

(Message edited by curiousfinn on October 04, 2008)

I mean his/her/our/your pl/their, yes

And if I put fuisce and uisce here, this would be the product?

a fhuisce "his whiskey"
a fuisce "her whiskey"
a bhfuisce "their whiskey"

a uisce "his water"
a huisce "her water"
a n-uisce "their water"

So that masculine plural would lenite fuisce, but leave uisce unchanged, feminine would leave fuisce unchanged but add h before uisce, and 3rd person pl would respectively eclipse fuisce and add N- before uisce... now does the last rule conform to ár?

And, now that "fhuisce" begins with FH, this is probably left silent... is the U then pronounced in this case, as in plain uisce it wouldn't?

Yea, and there is redundency built in anyway:
d'ólamar a/ár n-uisce
beidh siad ag ól a n-uisce

Now to pick the ends,

my/your/his => mo/do/a => lenition
her => a => add leading H to initial vowel
our/your/their => ar/bhur/a => eclipsis or leading N- to initial vowel

so the only case that doesn't conform to the other singluars is feminine... I read that the leading H and lenition are mutually exclusive anyway, so the particles etc that lenite, will not add leading H, and vice versa... then, plural cases are uniform in this sense, all will eclipse or add leading N-... I was first scared, but they seem to have sort of a logic, as if the feminine case was later added and needed a way to be separated.

By this...

- Is a bhfuisce te agus n-uisce fuar. (Their whiskey is warm and their water cold)
- Is a fuisce fuar agus huisce te. (Her whiskey is cold and her water warm)
- Is a fhuisce agus uisce te. (His whiskey and water are warm)

Even close? Grammar OK?

Also, how does its/theirs (non-personal) relate to these? Does singular conform to masculine or feminine, does the gender affect the result if an animal is the "owner"? I assume plural conforms to the personal plural.

A Fhinn,

Two suggestions on those sentences. The first is that when the adjective is used with a copula, it tends to come first, e.g. is te a bhfuisce é. But though this sentence is grammatically correct, it's unidiomatic because the copula properly expresses only intrinsic qualities. That is, is órga a bhfuisce é "Their whiskey is golden" because colour is an unalterable property of most substances. But tá a bhfuisce te (or bíonn a bhfuisce te for a statement of general validity) because sooner or later, it will cool off again.

quote:

Also, how does its/theirs (non-personal) relate to these? Does singular conform to masculine or feminine, does the gender affect the result if an animal is the "owner"?

As a general rule, yes. But there are exceptions, most related to the so-called "feminine of reference". Conveyances (including horses) are grammatically masculine but referred back to with feminine pronouns, e.g. Bhí capall aige gurbh ainm di 'Lady'. "He had a horse named 'Lady'."

Well, this is one thing where Finnish has no simple distinction. Generally everything just is something, and if a property adheres to it for a limited time or in certain conditions only, and this is significant in the context, it is separately indicated.

So, "Is fireann Seán" (intrinsic property) but "Tá Seán tuirseach" (temporary status) or "Tá Seán sa bhaile" (current location)?

(Message edited by curiousfinn on October 04, 2008)

Again, all correct, but not necessarily idiomatic. You'd normally expect is fear Seán (or fear is ea Seán) in the first case. In the second, tá tuirse ar Sheán may be slightly more common, but both are used.

Note that a similar distinction exists with nouns. Tá Seán ina fhear can be used to foreground the fact that Seán may be a man now, but that this wasn't always the case. (Contrasting with, for instance, bhí Seán ina pháiste.)

Fear is ea Seán

Fiontaróir is ea tú (An adventurer is you?) www.kingdomofloathing.com

Amhantraí, b'fhéidir.

Fiontraí means an entreprenuer.

Focal suggest Fiontraí and Eachtránaí

http://www.focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=adventurer

But, as I say, the meaning of Fiontraí has moved to have a narrower business meaning.

Perhaps eachtránaí is best:

amhantraíocht [ainmfhocal baininscneach den tríú díochlaonadh]
fiontraíocht le hairgead.

eachtraíocht [ainmfhocal baininscneach den tríú díochlaonadh]
turasóireacht, taisteal; scéalta, eachtraí.

Like a 'free market buccaneer?', perhaps?

Isn't that tautology?

Well I was being tongue in cheek a bit

Mise freisin.

Is trua nach gcrochtar buccaneers an saor mhargadh níos mó...

So... "Eachtránai is ea tú" would be closer. Afterall, it's about being an adventurer seeking for experience, rather than someone who plays with monetary fortune.

Jetz muss ich fern sehen und dann schlafen gehen.

Sorry for the lousy German - Swedish ruined it for me. But then, it rhymes. Somewhat.

(Message edited by curiousfinn on October 06, 2008)

"Eachtránaí is ea tú"
or more simply
"Is Eachtránaí tú"

Scríobh Aonghus:

Is trua nach gcrochtar buccaneers an saor mhargadh níos mó...

Did I get this right... "It's a pity that buccaneers no more stick to cheap market"?

crochtar -- passive/impersonal of croch "hang"

Déan iarracht eile air!

(Message edited by Domhnaillín_Breac_na_dTruslóg on October 07, 2008)

also, saor means free as well as cheap.

Just got a disturbing idea...

You don't happen to mean hanging buccaneers at market plazas???

I wrote
Is trua nach gcrochtar buccaneers an saor mhargadh níos mó
It is a pity that free market buccaneers are no longer hanged.

I was'nt entirely serious.

Ní bhí ná mise. B)

A Fhinn,

"Ní raibh ná mise." (Dependent form after negative particles.)

Oh, yeah. Irregular. GRMA athuair.

After almost a week off, alpha testing continues... point me my mistakes with these:

Cónaím i Fhionlainn, i an cathair Akaa, agus obraím i pictiúrlann i an cathair Valkeakoski. Roimh ag obairt ansin bhí difhostaithe mé.

Cónaím

Grammatically correct but I've never seen cónaím used before. The usual form is Táim i mo chónaí. (This is a form of the present progressive preferred with certain stative verbs.)

i Fhionlainn i an cathair Akaa

I is a tricky preposition. Unlike most of them, it eclipses rather than causing lenition, i.e. i gCorcaigh "in Cork". But even stranger, it combines with the article to form insan and i sna (usually abbreviated to sa(n) and sna). Thus, i + an chathair = sa chathair. Fionlainn also takes an article in Irish, so the form you want is san Fhionlainn.

agus obraím i pictiúrlann i an cathair Valkeakoski.

The verb *obraigh doesn't exist. You want oibrigh which has the present singular oibrím. (I'll leave it to you to correct the prepositions in that sentence.)

Roimh ag obairt ansin

AFAIK, there is no obairt; the verbal noun of oibrigh is oibriú. But I would probably avoid the construction entirely and just say "Roimhe sin".

bhí mé dífhostaithe.

A less formal equivalent to dífhostaithe is as obair.

Scríobh Dhomhnaillín:

Grammatically correct but I've never seen cónaím used before... [snip] ...*obraigh doesn't exist... [snip] ...AFAIK, there is no obairt; the verbal noun of oibrigh is oibriú.

All of these were suggested by our f(l)avo(u)rite conjugator. Anyway, let's try again...

>
Táim i mo chónai san Fhionlainn, sa chathair Akaa, agus oíbrim sa pictiúrlann sa chathair Valkeakoski. Roimhe sin bhí mé as obair.
>

BTW, could the oíbrim here be replaced by tá mo phoist or something like that? Might be more logical (to me at least) because obviously I'm not there right now but my job is there waiting for me.

Also, as the I causes eclipsis... when it melts into an/na to form san/sna, apparently these still cause lenition? And obviously these would follow the an/na rules with plural, fem/masc etc?

And now that I got here, if a word stem should start with an eclipsed/lenited consonant, wouldn't that be immune to further mutation? Well, for initial vowel words the answer is obvious because they would reveice H or N-, and if a word already has an initial H or N those would not receive lenition or eclipsis anyway.

Already know that I omitted the lenition on pictiúrlann there.

And, for the last paragraph, ignore the part on the initial vowel. Intracranial flatulence.

Táim i mo chónaí san Fhionlainn, sa chathair Akaa, agus oibrím i bpictiúrlann sa chathair Valkeakoski. Roimhe sin bhí mé as obair.

(Sa phictiúrlann makes it sound to me like there's only one in all of Valkeakoski, which I doubt is true.)

Tá mo phost... sounds odd to me. Remember that Irish, like English, has a present progressive, leaving the simple present free to express habitual actions.

when it melts into an/na to form san/sna, apparently these still cause lenition?

Correct. I didn't mention this specifically because, in some dialects, most prepositions cause lenition with the article. (In the Irish I speak, this only happens after sa(n), den, and don and otherwise eclipsis is the rule.) I'm not sure which general rule you're learning.

if a word stem should start with an eclipsed/lenited consonant, wouldn't that be immune to further mutation?

Can you give some examples? Eclipsis and lenition are mutually exclusive; if one takes place, the other is categorically impossible. I can't think of any words that are eclipsed in their base forms. The few that I can think of which are inherently lenited are adverbs and such (e.g. cheana, thall, choíche, etc.) and thus never end up in circumstances where they could be eclipsed/lenited anyway.

Actually, there's just one. There were three at the most back in the day, mine had two halls then. It was the biggest one then, and so it is now, even when reduced to one hall and having that hall further downsized.

Even Akaa, where I live, still has one cinema, although no-one seems to be interested in continuing the legacy... the area had two, before the cities were joined, me and a couple friends operated the extinct one until 2006. When it was shut down and the city sold the shares of the building to the Pentecostals, we founded a charitable organization and took the machinery - we hauled the stuff off for free, and neither the seller or buyer had to mind getting rid of them. A win-win-win situation.

Well, the eclipsis/lenition thing... I kinda figured that out too... but then, when I think of "bhfuil", it probably isn't eclipsed from fuil at all, but just comes as a form of the verb... OTOH it wouldn't surprise me if in some old languages, words meaning blood, life, and being/existing would be related... and why an extra silent F? Now, I'm just trying to reverse engineer some pieces of a large puzzle, trying to figure out how they fit together. Agus tá mé marbh tuirseach.

BTW, "tá an madra marbh", doesn't it metaphorically mean a situation with suspicious play in the background? Because Finns use the phrase "...koira haudattuna", which means just that a dog is buried.

(Message edited by curiousfinn on October 15, 2008)

I'm not following you on fuil. That this is definitely the root form of the verb is obvious in West Cork where the negative interrogative is formed with ná rather than nach + eclipsis, e.g. Ná fuil sé anso? (Standard: Nach bhfuil sé anseo?) Note also that the negative form, níl, is a contraction of ní fhuil.

The resemblance between this verb form and fuil "blood" is a coincidence; in Scottish Gaelic, the base form of the verb is feil while the noun is fuil.

Tá tú ag déanamh bealaigh i dtreo stair na teanga a Fhinn - you're heading towards the historical aspects of the language a Fhinn, agus cén dochar - and that's no harm.

An ceart ag Domhnaillín, níl ann ach comhtharlú, - a coincidence. Níor bhain 'fuil' an bhriathair shubstaintigh le 'fuil' na fola - the 'fuil' of the substantive verb didn't start out from the 'fuil' of blood, but had its origin in 'fil' as of 'file' - poet, seer and is equatable to Welsh 'gwel(d)', 'to see'. If one sees something, then it 'is', it exists in being.

Not unrelated is 'éigse' in seeing and matters of learning, and I always feel that northern 'tchím' is just as good as 'tá', not unlike in a way the other thread on 'it is as it is'.

Where you’re heading a Fhinn:
http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/liosta/old-irish-l/
Beidh spéis agat ann.

I'm not following you on fuil.

Neither am I... Bhí mé marbh tuirseach, an gcuimhníonn tú?

How about the part about "tá an madra marbh"?

Tá an madra marbh just means that we're in for trouble ahead. As far as I know, there's no particular hint of foul play.

quote:

Focal suggest Fiontraí and Eachtránaí

Moladh uaimse:

Fiontraí eachtránaíoch (= stocaire-i-ndeireadh-thiar-thall)

Mana an saormhargaidh (tar éis na tuile - ar a dhéanaí):

Cothaítear an craos fánach
leis an iocóir cánach.

Hmm, a random(??) esophagus is fed by the tax payer(s)?

craos [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
an píobán mór ón scornach go béal an ghoile; oscailt, béal (craos foirnéise, craos gunna); an iomarca bia nó dí (peaca an chraois).

Yeah, a masculine noun of first declination (The official Finnish word for noun is "nimisana", translates straight from ainmfhocal, BTW...)

The large pipe from throat to (mouth of?) stomach... an opening or mouth... the furnace mouth, gun barrel (so far following with little need to refer to foclóir)... too much food or drink would be... Greed? Avarice?

quote:

Greed? Avarice

Sin agat é!

The careless greed
is fed by the taxpayer

Thóg mé saoirse lena creachta cartlann.

Scríobh Domhnaillín:

Then there are all the metaphorical compounds like madra draoibe or madra gaoithe and expressions like tá an madra marbh or madraí a chur i bhfuinneoga.

OK, "tá an madra marbh was" cleared, "trouble ahoy" if you allow me some poetic license...

"madraí a chur i bhfuinneoga"... dogs thrown in from windows??? Nothing to do with "raining cats and dogs"?

And these two gave nothing conclusive with a quick look:

madra draoibe/gaoithe

OK perhaps I took too much freedom, LOL...

madra draoibe Lit. "dog of mire (draoib)". To make a madra draoibe of someone is to besmirch their reputation.

madra gaoithe Lit. "dog of wind" (gaoth). This is a kind of atmospheric phenomenon called a "sea-dog" or "fog-dog" in English. It's a brightness near the horizon that indicates an oncoming storm.

madraí a chur i bhfuinneoga "put dogs in windows". ("Throw dogs from windows" would be madraí a chaitheamh de bhfuinneoga). It means to try to trick and confuse people.

GRMA!

How's the "taking freedom/liberty" part, anything like that in Irish? It works in both English and Finnish word to word.

Níl, go bhfios dom.

If I wanted to conjugate the phrase of putting dogs in windows, say, like "He tries to trick and confuse people", wouldn't that be like "Chuireann sé madraí i bhfuinneoga"?

Then, obviously this form wuld work for non-metaphorical use too, like putting wallpaper on walls (with correct prepositions, subject, object of course)... "páipéar balla a chur ar (m?)ballai"??

Cuireann, without aspiration.

Remember, i is the only preposition that causes eclipsis without the article. If you were using ar, it would be ar bhallaí. But it sounds redundant and clumsy to say páipéar balla a chur ar bhallaí. I mean, where else would you put it? I'd say páipéar balla a chur suas "put up wallpaper".

I came to think that way too...

Hum. Back when we discussed pronunciation, someone said that I could use Finnish R all through, for slender too. Someone also suggested that slender R could be approximated my making "modern" to "modrn"... When I've been tasting this, it sounds much like some R noise I hear from my Turkish/Kurdish acquantainces.

I think that's a bad approximation. As far as English sounds goes, slender R sounds closer to Z than to any rhotic.

Hmm... it does sound more like a Z than any rhotic... somewhat distorted, approximately the same that was taught to me to be the Notorious G (pun intended) in Giraffe, aspirating a wee bit from J in John... but this may be the closest approximation where my tongue bends... unless I get to train in a real situation. Which may take a while and another.

Well, how's this?

Chas mé bean agus a madra inné. Bhí an madra deas agus an bhean gleoite deas.

Also I noted that madra would not take mutation in this case... would need to know the context to tell whether the owner is a group of people or a single woman (pun intended). I have a creeping feeling that I have missed something obvious, but...

Táim ag dul a chodladh.

Cas in the sense of "run into" is used impersonally, i.e. Casadh orm bean agus a madra inné.

Codladh sámh!

Hi, folks,

great web-site here. Might start getting back into the old gaeilge myself soon. By the looks of things that's where all the clever (=cool) people hang out.

One thing that always flummoxed me in Irish was:

what are the differences in pronunciation of "alt" compared to "ailt" and "ard" compared to "aird" for example. Is the "ai" in both cases a diphthong?


And is

"Cothaítear an craos fánach
leis an iocóir cánach."

an seanfocal?

"what are the differences in pronunciation of "alt" compared to "ailt" and "ard" compared to "aird" for example. Is the "ai" in both cases a diphthong?"

The fact that people do not know such things is telling passes for teaching in Ireland. Anyway, the 'lt' group in the second is different than in the first. The addition of an i is to show the difference in the second 'lt' group, that is a change in quality if the consonants, not a diphthong.

Irish has two sets of consonants, the way many (most?) languages have 2 sets of vowels (long/short etc). Some languages have vowel harmony (rules for grouping vowels relative to one another) and some languages have consonant harmony.

Irish is extreme (for English speakers) in that it not only has consonant harmony, but has incorporated it into the grammar.

'Crann' singular then becomes 'Crainn' (sounding like 'crinn') in the genitive singular (and plural in the standard). Remember that there are two qualities to the consonant? Well 'cr' are of one quality (A) and 'nn' in crann is of the same (A), but when changed for grammatical reasons, the A'nn' becomes B'nn'.

The vowels e, and i are placed next to the B set and the vowels a, o, u next to the B set to show quality, thus 'alt'(A) becomes 'ailt'(B).

There is not a diphthong change as much as a glide

OK, back again. How are these phrases?

Cheannaigh mé fístaifeadán pearsanta ag USB.
Ag sin tá gá agam leis cúpla ríomhchlár na bhideo chun ríomhaire a aistriú agus chun DVD a dóigh.

(Now, I know that there are people out there who strongly oppose to the use of gaelicized english words like bhideo, dabht, bhuel etc...)

Can dóigh be used in this sense?

quote:

use of gaelicized english words like bhideo

Ní gá leis sa chás seo. "Físeán" an focal atá uait. Rud eile, ní bhaintear úsáid as "bh-" i nGaeilge an lae inniu. Tosaíonn focail mar sin le "v-". Mar shampla:

vóta
Vatacáin
volta

(The "bh-" convention is found in Scottish Gaelic: bhòta = vóta.)

Well, I've seen bhideo used in an Irish text, though. Or then, it was Scottish and I didn't recognize it.

So, "Físeán" is correct for "video" as in video stream or files?

Na rudaí atá ar YouTube, is físeáin iad.

físeán ceoil = music video

físeán digiteach = digital video

cluiche físeáin = video game

Físeán. Ceart go leor.

Mharaigh físeán an réalta raidió... B)

Conas raibh mo c(h?)úpla frása faoi an fístaifeadán pearsanta?

(Message edited by curiousfinn on November 03, 2008)

(Message edited by curiousfinn on November 03, 2008)

Scríobh mé cúpla lá ó shin:

Cheannaigh mé fístaifeadán pearsanta ag USB.
Ag sin tá gá agam leis cúpla ríomhchlár na físeán chun ríomhaire a aistriú agus chun DVD a dóigh.

Thuairimí?

Ar feadh m'eolais tá an graiméar ceart, ach cad ciall i "ríomhaire a aistriú"? An bhfuilir ag rá faoi nuashonrú na mbogearraí córais?

Bhí broim inchinn orm.

"transfer to computer"... ???

Teastaíonn réamhfhocal uaidh ansin: "aistriú go dtí ríomhaire".

Ag sin Anois tá gá agam leis cúpla ríomhchlár chun na físeán chun a aistriú go dtí ríomhaire agus chun DVD a dhóigh.

GRMA!

I've been really preoccupied with work for a few days, I must mull this over.

Some hints:
dó [ainm briathartha][ainmfhocal firinscneach den cheathrú díochlaonadh]
dul no cur trí thine; loscadh (dó gréine, neantóige, seaca).

AINM BRIATH.
dó

I assumed you meant "now" by "Ag sin" and so corrected it to "anois" - if you meant something else, let me know.

leis [réamhfhocal, an tríú pearsa fhirinscneach uatha ]

This is le + é. Since you had no pronoun, you just use le

Hi Curious,

Tá jab agam duit, should you wish to accept it.

An féidir leat an scéilín seo a leanas a aistriú go Fionlainnis? I'll gladly answer any questions you have, naturally. I'm collecting translations of it in various languages. I have an Estonian translation already. Dála an scéil cén chaoi a bhfuil do chuid Eastóinise?

Triúr manach a thug diúltú don saol. Téann siad ins an fhásach chun aithrí a dhéanamh ina gcuid peacaí roimh Dhia. Bhí siad gan labhairt lena chéile go ceann bliana. Ansin dúirt fear díobh le fear eile bliain amháin ina dhiaidh sin, “Táimid go maith,” ar seisean. Mar sin go ceann bliana. “Is maith go deimhin,” arsa an dara fear. Bhí siad ann ina dhiaidh sin go ceann bliana. Dar m'aibíd,” arsa an treas fear, “mura ligeann sibh ciúnas dom fágfaid mé an fásach uile daoibh!”

A Dhonnacha, is féidir liomsa aistriuchán duit i gKorean agus, b'fhéidir Uzbekistani. Fan cúpla lá

A Dhennis,

I did a translation, hopefully good enough.

A Aonghuis,

with "ag sin" I meant "with that/it" but I wasn't sure... just something I came up with after looking in the foclóir.

(Message edited by curiousfinn on November 09, 2008)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "With that" in the context. With the video recorder?

Yes... but perhaps I had "broim inchinn"... not my first one, and unlikely to be the last.

Hmm.
I'd still say "anois" in that context, since (if I understood correctly) you have bought the recoder and now need the peripherals.

Otherwise we would need to rephrase the sentence to be idiomatic.

It would be possible, but awkward, to say "In éineacht leis tá..."

quote:

I did a translation, hopefully good enough.

Go raibh maith agat! Cuir chugam é, led thoil: donncha1 at comcast.net

Tá sé ar an snáth faoi Triar Manach:

http://www.daltai.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/daltai/discus/show.pl?tpc=20&post=74542#PO ST74542

quote:

is féidir liomsa aistriuchán a fháil duit i gKorean agus, b'fhéidir Uzbekistani.

Cóiréis agus Úisbéiceastáinis, ar fheabhas!

Dennis,

Cén uair a foilseoidh tú sé?

Tá mise agus Caoimhín ag Sabhal Mór Ostaig, mo leathbhádóir sna tograí seo, ag plé leagan amach an tsuímh faoi láthair, .i. an mbeadh frámaí ceart go leor sa chás seo, bíodh is go bhfuil siad as dáta anois, nó an mbeadh sé níos fearr "display:none" a úsáid in éindí le blúirín beag Javascript. Tá súil agam go mbeidh rud éigin socraithe againn roimh dheireadh na seachtaine.

leathbádóir? half-boatman??? ;B) It still takes me long to decode complicated sentences... I'll copy that to another file and have a go with it at some point.

I'll try to compose some more phrases, hopefully intelligible.

Inniu d'athraigh mé an bolgán an teilgeoir. Bhí sé (i g?)caite agus deacair ag tosú, agus bhí a bpreab suaiteach.

Déardaoin glaofaidh mé mo chara, a thart "Fear Sé" d'inis dom.

Stupid me. I eclipsed preab instead of leniting.

Inniu d'athraigh mé an bolgán sa teilgeoir.

Bhí sé caite agus deacair ag tosú, agus bhí a bpreab suaiteach.

Ní thuigim cad é i gceist anseo. Ar athraigh tú an bolgán toisc go raibh sé caite, an bhfuil an ceart agam? Ar dtús bhí deacair sin. Cad a tharla i ndiadh sin?

Déardaoin glaofaidh mé mo chara, a thart "Fear Sé" d'inis dom.

Ní thuigim an dara habairt i n-aon chor.

leathbhadóir

Bádóir = boatman

Leath is often used for one of a pair. i.e. Leathbhadóir = one of two boatmen
Hence
mo leathbhadóir = my colleague/partner.

Tá sé bolgán stua ardbhrú... ní fanfaidh mé go dtí pléascann sé agus briseann sé an scáthán parabóileacha. Dó tharlódh sé, bheadh sé chóiriú daor, níos mó daor ná an bolgán ag athrach.

I hope this doesn't make it any more confusing.

The "Fear Sé" part is better directed to Dennis, something I need to research further.

Tá sé Is bolgán stua ardbhrú atá ann

Dá dtarlódh

bheadh sé daor é a choiriú
níos daoire
ná an bholgán a athrú

Scríobh Aonghus:

bheadh sé daor é a choiriú
ná an bholgán a athrú

Scríobh mé:

Bhí sé caite agus deacair ag tosú, agus bhí a bpreab suaiteach.

I guess the correct form would have been "deacair a tosú", then? And I already know that it should have been "bhí a phreab suaiteach"... only one bulb had disturbing flicker.

Damnú air! Rinne mé dearmad de mo chara a glaoch.

(Message edited by curiousfinn on November 13, 2008)

Hmm. I would recast the entire sentence.

Inniu d'athraigh mé an bolgán an teilgeoir. Bhí sé (i g?)caite agus deacair ag tosú, agus bhí a bpreab suaiteach.

Bhí sé caite, agus ní raibh sé ag tosú i gceart, agus bhí sé ag caochaíl.

Caochaíl = blockage (by irishdictionary.ie), flickering (by focal.ie)...

As it seems, there's no direct verb for "to flicker", so you must say "it was at flicker"? Then, "it was not in sure at start"?

"It wasn't starting correctly". ("At [the] start" would be i dtosach or ar dtús.)

The "Fear Sé" part is better directed to Dennis, something I need to research further.

Is "skåj" atá ann, formhór de sé. Agus chreid mé mo chara. Bhí mé bómánta. Scairdfidh mé luaith te orm.

"ag" here denotes action, not position

Example:

Tá mé ag obair	I am working
Tá mé ar obair	I am at work (at my place of work)

Caoch minds partly blind, or partly blocked. Therefore coachaíl meaning flickering.

The grammar geeks will hopefully explain this better.

Hmm, I think I have a slight idea of the logic... "ag" puts me "into possession of" my work, therefore I'm working, "ar" would put me "on" my work, so to say, into contact with it, but not necessarily performing it.

Then, if someone has a job for me, it's "ag" them because they have, in a sense, a task "in their possession" to be given "do" me to process...

And, I read somewhere a structure like this...

Tá ag mo shean-saoisti 2000€ dom.

So he would owe me that much, having it "in his possession" "for me".

Even closely so?

I'm not sure the analogy is safe, even if it works.

"ag" does not simply means "at"

ag [réamhfhocal]
san ionad nó ar an ócáid (ag an doras, ag an damhsa); foinse (chuala mé agat féin é); i dtuairim (tá sé ina fhear uasal acu); i seilbh (is agat is fearr é); i bpáirt le (tá comharsana maithe againn); ag freastal ar (bhí an dochtúir aici); ag tagairt do thréithe nó staid nó eolas nó scil nó mothú nó imeachtaí nó dualgas nó fiacha nó buntáiste nó am nó faill agus araile (bíodh ciall agaibh; bhí saol breá againn, tá léann acu, dá mbeadh snámh aige, tá cion aici air, bhí cluiche maith againn, tá an obair le déanamh agam, bhí airgead agam air, tá tosach agat orm, dá mbeadh bliain eile againn); le haidiacht (tá sé trom agat, ba mhaith againn é); le hainm briathartha (ag ithe, ag ól, ag díol, ag caint).

There's another "ag" analogy that "elucidates" the usage of the genitive in such expressions as:

- ag moladh an fhir

- at the praising of the man

(it works better in German)

- am loben des Mannes.

Bheinnse den tuairim gurbh ionann "am" na Gearmáinise sa chás seo agus ag + ainm bhriathar na Gaeilge.
Gníomh seachas suíomh atá i gceist leo araon, ambaist!

quote:

- am loben des Mannes.

- am Loben des Mannes.

quote:

Gníomh seachas suíomh atá i gceist leo araon

Go díreach.


Dála an scéil, d'fhionn mé gurb fhiú uaireanta na ceisteanna gramadaigh a bhaineann le teanga amháin a chíoradh i dteanga eile - seachas sa Bhéarla amháin.

Na ceisteanna sanasaíochta freisin.

Dalltar daoine ag dalladh Béarla. Den dea dhaltachas an dátheangachas.

(Message edited by aonghus on November 19, 2008)

Dheimhnigh mé mo chóip na Madagascar 2... tá coíp maith agam, ach fuair mo shaoiste (i gcathair eile) cóip lochtach. Bhí fuaimrian analóg i gcupla ríl scannán i n-Ollainnis.

An gcuireann siad fuaimrian i gcartúini bheoite i nGaeilge?

"de Madagascar 2"
"coíp mhaith" [ainmfhocal baininscneach]
"fuaimrian analógach" [ainmfhocal is ea "analóg"]
"de chúpla spól scannáin" [saghas rince is ea "ríl"]
"as Ollainnis"

I got to say that I prefer the ''bh'' than the 'v' when borrowing foriegn words. It follows the original Irish orthography spelling.

The thing is, the pronunciation of initial bh varies substantially by dialect. Only in Munster is it consistently [v]; in the North, it's [w] before back vowels and I understand that some Ulster speakers have no [v] at all in native words, only [w]. V, on the other hand, will be pronounced [v] by everyone everywhere. So why I'm not fond of spellings like vóta and veain myself (particularly as I use Munster pronunciation), I understand why they are necessary.