My attempt at translating this would be along the lines of "Tír na Gréine Éirighthe" but wouldn't this (also) mean "Land of the Risen Sun"?
"Tír Éirighthe na Gréine" occurs to me aswell but couldn't this have the meaning "The Land that Raises the Sun"?

What about the phrase "The Rising Sun" on its own?
Would "An Ghrian Éirighthe" be Both "The Rising Sun" and "The Risen Sun"?

Ni dóigh liom é.

Tir na Gréine ag Éirí, sílim.

Mholfainn ‘tír an ghail ghréine’ ar chúinsí staire a chairde, nó ‘tír éirí na gréine’ sa ghnáthchaint.

Nochtar Gal Gréine re crann,
Bratach Fhinn fá garg i dtreas,
Lomlán do chlochaibh don ór
Dar liom, fá mór a meas.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1648/grian_g.htm

http://www.geocities.com/athens/sparta/1648/bratacha.htm

Tá blagadóir Béarla (: To Gaelicise all aspects of our nation: language …. bla bla) a chroch an t-ainm ‘Craobh Gal Gréine’ air féin http://www.blogger.com/profile/13782812728527508512

Ach an dtugann sin an idirdhealú idir an ghníomh agus an staid slán?

i. "ag eirí" seachas éirí.

Ní bheadh ginideach i gceist leis an ainm briathair ar aon chuma a Aonghuis. Is é éirí na gréine in áit 'an t-éirí (gréine)' atá i gceist, is é sin, ní ainmfhocal atá sa nath 'éirí (na gréine)', mura ndéanfaimid ainmfhocal de, má thigeann tú leat mé, d'ainneoin an t-aonad ar fad le chéile a bheith ina aonad ainmfhocail!

Is féidir linn sin a dhéanamh, má theastaíonn uainn, ainmfhocal a dhéanamh, dá mbeimis ag trácht thairis in am éigin eile mar 'an t-éirí sin' nó 'an t-éirí gréine sin' áirithe, ach is iondúil go n-abródh daoine '... éirí gréine an mhaidin sin' (le dobhriathar ama ina dheireadh agus aonad ainmfhocail ar intinn acu le 'éirí gréine') nó 'éirí gréine na maidine sin' agus aonad ainmfhocail ar intinn acu faoin iomlán.

Cíoradh ar aon dul ábhair leis an gceist seo is ea seomra suí agus seomra suite. Feicfear 'seomra suite' sna leabhair, cuid mhaith, ach 'seomra suí' a déarfar. Féach a éagsúla is atá 'am luí' agus leagan eile nach mbreacfad anois.

Beidh an gníomh i gceist ceart go leor le 'tír éirí na gréine' d'ainneoin an briathar a bheith ina chuid d'aonad ainmfhocail.

'Tír Fuinidh' a thugtaí ar Éirinn scaití, de réir an scéil ar aon chuma. Fuineadh gréine a bhí i gceist. Maghreb na hEorpa ar bhealach.

quote:

Nochtar Gal Gréine re crann,
Bratach Fhinn fá garg i dtreas,
Lomlán do chlochaibh don ór
Dar liom, fá mór a meas.

Linguistic note for anyone confused by "fá". In Classical Modern Irish (Keating's Irish, mar shampla), "fá" was used commonly instead of "ba", the past/conditional form of the copula. So:

"bratach Fhinn ba garg i dtreas" = "the flag of Fionn who was fierce in fray".

Yipes. An méid sin uaime sa leagan Béarla!

quote:

'Tír Fuinidh' a thugtaí ar Éirinn scaití, de réir an scéil ar aon chuma.

An-deas! Chuir sé sin chuig FGB mé mar a bhfuair mé "Fia fuinidh" chomh maith. Ní raibh "fia" agam leis an gciall "tír", ach tá anois, a bhuí leatsa, a Sheosaimh. GRMA.

Thanks for the responses.


I imagined the answer would be very straightforward. Does the fact that the genitive and past participle of the verb are usually identical mean that confusion in cases like this and "seomra suidhe/suidhte" is simply unavoidable?
It seems very strange if it is.


I can see the sense to both "Tir na Gréine ag Éirí" and "Tír éirí na gréine".
I agree that something like "Tír an Ghail Ghréine" could be used as a poetic equivalent of Japan's sobriquet but I should have made clear that my question solely concerned how the phrase (and phrases like it) would be rendered in Irish.

I wonder how the likes of Séathrún Céitinn would have dealt with this

(Message edited by james_murphy on September 16, 2008)

"bratach Fhinn ba garg i dtreas" = "the flag of Fionn who was fierce in fray".

Out of curiosity, if you were to say "bratach Fhinn a bhí garg i dtreas," would it mean "the flag of Fionn which (flag) was fierce in fray"?

A Dhomhnaill, seems to me the semantics (how can a flag be "fierce in battle"?) would override that interpretation regardless of the verb. The real distinction between the two sentences would be whether you considered being garg i dtreas an inherent quality or a transient one (e.g. exhibited only in one particular battle).

A Dhennis, cad'na thaobh níl aon séimhiú ar "gharg" i ndiaidh "ba" anso?

quote:

cad'na thaobh níl aon séimhiú ar "gharg" i ndiaidh "ba" anso?

Chuir mé an cheist chéanna ormsa.