A chairde,

a question concerning "ná"...
The other day, I came across a number of sentences in which a usage of "ná" appears that I don't quite understand (or maybe I've forgotten...)

The sentences are (taken from: Frainc Ó Murchadha, Idir Dhá Chomhairle, Foras na Gaeilge 2003):

quote:

Ba é an cúram a bhí air ná aiste a scríobh mar obair bhaile.

quote:

An rud ba scanrúla faoi ná gurbh as béal Bhrean féin a labhair an guth.

And from a recent post by Dennis in the "Dubhairt" thread

quote:

Ceann de na ranganna a bhí ann ná uair go leith an chloig gach lá (Dé Sathairn san áireamh!) le Pádraig Breathnach ag léamh téacsanna, idir phrós agus fhilíocht, i Nua-Ghaeilge Chlasaiceach.

Again, I understand the sentences content-wise but would like to know the function of "ná" here, other than Imperative and Comparative (which it is not here, I know.) Can someone explain that to me?
Thanks in advance.

Is mó ná ná mar a cheapann tú atá ann!

ná [cónasc]
focal faisnéiseach leis an gcopail (is é ainm a bhí air ná Séadna).

atá i gceist na samplaí thuas, sílim.

Gheobhaidh tú scata brí le ná ach é chuir isteach san bhFoclóir Beag.


http://www.csis.ul.ie/focloir/

The use of "ná" is originally a Munster feature, I think, but it's in wide use now because it's so handy. Functionally it signals the beginning of the second half of a copular "equation". It's a bit redundant, really, since you can leave it out without loss of meaning, but it is used because it makes things clearer. For example, take:

Ba é an cúram a bhí air ná aiste a scríobh mar obair bhaile.

If you drop the "ná" you get a perfectly grammatical sentence that means the same thing:

Ba é an cúram a bhí air aiste a scríobh mar obair bhaile.

The equation here is "an cúram air" = "aiste a scríobh" : "the burden on him" = "to write an essay". The word "ná" is a little flag saying "okay, here's part two of the equation."

Well put Dennis. I've always considered the use of ná in sentences like that as a kind of punctuation

Ná is the Munster version of ''nach''.

Ná nílim grá agam duit ach oiread.

What about here? Can the 'ná' be omitted?

Ná nílim grá agam duit ach oiread.

Perhaps.
But I'd leave it in.

quote:

Ná is the Munster version of ''nach''.

Is fíor sin. Ach ní hionann an "ná" sin agus an pleonastic conjunction "ná" thuas.

quote:

Ná nílim grá agam duit ach oiread.

Ní chuirfinn "ná" ansin, an pleonastic conjunction "ná" ach go háirithe. Tugaigí faoi deara go bhfuil 6 "ná" éagsúla ann.

Chuirfinn ar an gcoinníoll gur sruth cainte a bhí i gceist;

Níl mé sásta leat,
Níl seo,
Níl siúd,
Ná níl grá agam duit ach an oiread...

An ná seo atá ann, sílim:
ná [cónasc]
= nó in abairt dhiúltach (níl mac ná iníon aige).

Faighim in "Eoin 8:11 an abairt seo: "Ná ní dhaoraimse thú ach oiread." Is cosúil go is an bhrí don frása "ná...ach oiread" neither agus is either "ach oiread."

With apologies for the butchered Irish. Sometimes I just wanna play with the big kids.

Bí ag broc leat a Phádraig. Sin an tslí cheart le dul chun cinn. Tá tú ag déanamh go maith.

quote:

Tá tú ag déanamh go maith.

Gan amhras!

Dála an scéil an bhfuil an Bíobla ar CD agat, a Phádraig, nó an bhfuil tú fós ag streachailt leis an leagan beag bog?

A Aonghuis, a chara,

Tá "An Bíobla Naofa" -- leagan bogchludach agam. (An Sagart, Maigh Nuad: 1981) Is anbeag an cló agus strácáláim na focail a fheiceáil. Teastíonn sé gloine formhéadúcháin. An eagrán eile ann atá cló mór aige? Mar atá na blianta á gcaitheamh tá sé ag dul i ndeacracht aghaidh an lae a léamh.

(Message edited by pádraig on August 22, 2008)

Tá dhá chóip agam, an leagan crua a bhfuil cló mór ann, ach atá an-mhór (thart ar A4) agus an leagan bog.

Ach tá CD-Rom ann freisin ó Fios Feasa

http://www.fiosfeasa.com/script/gaeilge/products/gbible.asp

Cheap mé go m'bhféidir go raibh sé agat; níl agamsa, agus bhíos fiosrach.

Interesting

quote:

Ná níl grá agam duit ach oiread.

= And I don't love you either.

quote:

Ná ní dhaoraimse thú ach oiread

= And I don't condemn you either.

ná = nor, ní ... ach oiread = not ... either.

"Ná ní ... ach oiread" here is a dissolving variation of "ní ... ná" in a sentence like:
"Ní dhaorann siadsan ná mise thú."
-> Ní dhaorann siad thú. Ná ní dhaorimse thú ach oiread.

Lars

ná = nor, ní ... ach oiread = not ... either.

Or more simply "neither."

Neither do I love you.
Neither do I condemn you.

Go raibh míle maith agaibh!