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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (July - August) » Archive through August 18, 2008 » Inishmaan « Previous Next »

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Trigger
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Username: Trigger

Post Number: 153
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 01:49 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I've read on several sites today that there is still old people in Inishmaan that can not speak English, is this true?

gaeilgeoir.blogspot.com

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7350
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 02:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I doubt it. Find it awkward, perhaps. Inis Meáin is the most isolated of the Gaeltacht islands. But I'd be surprised.

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Darach
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Username: Darach

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 04:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ta aithne 'am ar daoine i gCon na Mara gan Bearla.

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 1347
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 10:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

As someone who has an interest in this topic, people here know it, I have amassed anicdotal reports of monolingual speakers in recent history. If you like I could check my records and see how many anicdotes I have pertaining to Inis Meain in the 00s. Just let me know and I'll check and tell them here. Note that these are stories I've heard from people around here and other Internet locations and from others so they cannot be proven, the ones from people here and others I know being the most reputable.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Danny2007
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Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 66
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 05:14 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I was on Inis Meáin for three days in late April. I stayed at a B&B run by a islander who said his family have been on the island "since day one", as he put it. Last name of Ó Conaile, which is very profilic in the Aran islands, so I'm told. His wife is actually from Guatamala originally. She said she never made any effort to learn Irish though she's been there for over ten years.

Anyway, she said there's definitely one man who has no English. A basket maker (or weaver??) who lives on the [even] more remote corner of the island, she said she's tried having conversations with him but he was never able to communicate with her. She wanted to ask him about baskets, but only after using the Irish word for basket and using body language did he understand, according to her. She said he's illiterate and thought he was in his early 70s.

I never met the man but there were plenty of elderly men taking strolls around the place when I was there. I had a few brief conversations with them and their English seemed halting at best. Very thick accents.

But according to this woman who ran the B&B (a great cook, I might add), there's definitely one who has no working knowledge of English.

- Danny

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Danny2007
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Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 67
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 05:14 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

hehe

*prolific

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Asarlaí
Member
Username: Asarlaí

Post Number: 206
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 06:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Feicim gur Inis meáin atá i gceist anseo a Trigger so sorry orm. Níl ach sceitiminí orm go mbeidh mé ag fanacht in Inis Mór ar feadh cúpla lá, an tseachtain seo chugainn... yippee.

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 157
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 07:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

so sorry orm



I'm losing the will to continue to bother any more with Irish. Why care when no-one else seems to.

Séamus Ó Murchadha

Go mBeannuighe Dia Éire Naomhtha!

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7356
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 08:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cúramach, a James.

Ní hionann "tá sorry orm" agus "tá brón orm"

Mild, self deprecating the one, true sorrow the other.

Tá difríocht ann.

Léigh níos mó a mhic - tosaigh le Feasta (agus Comhar nuair a fhilleann sé ar ball beag).

Tá daoine ag léamh/scríobh/caint togha na Gaeilge fós.

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 159
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 08:34 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

No, I don't think so. "Sorry Orm" means NOTHING. It's not Irish. It may be the beginnings of some sort of shitty Creole which may exist during the transition of Irish from a living language to a dead one. That's it.

Séamus Ó Murchadha

Go mBeannuighe Dia Éire Naomhtha!

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7357
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 08:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Muise.

An droch ghaeilge pingin, margadh, aifreann, cruiscín,....cá stopfaidh mé?

Tóg go réidh é, a James.

Labhair gaeilge ar do dhícheall, agus ná bí ag trasnáil - as Béarla - ar dhaoine eile, maith an fear.

An bhfuil Feasta 7 rl LÉITE agat? An bhfuair tú ábhar clamhsáin ann maidir le focail Béarla a bheith sníofa tríd an Ghaeilge ann?

Táimid ar fad an an aistir ón mbeatha go dtí an bás....

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Trigger
Member
Username: Trigger

Post Number: 154
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 11:42 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I agree with James here.

Just because Irish is an endangered language it don't give the right for learners to write nonsense.

''Sorry orm'' is not Irish, it should be ''Tá brón orm''.

gaeilgeoir.blogspot.com

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7360
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 11:53 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá sorry ormsa, ach tá an leagan "Tá sorry orm" le ciall eagsúl ó "Tá brón orm" coitainta thiar i measc cainteoirí Chonamara le fada an lá.

Gheobhaidh tú sampla de i "Lig sin i gcathú" Uí HEithir, mar shampla.

Nílim ag rá gur dea ghaeilge atá ann.

Ach táim ag rá gur gránna an mhaise é a bheith ag trasnáil - i mBéarla - ar dhuine a d'úsáid focal fanach amháoin Béarla i dteachtaireacht i nGaeilge.

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 65
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 12:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Deireann na hOllannaigh "sorry" an t-am ar fad (i nAmsterdam ar aon chuma). Is dóigh liom go gcuireann é sin in iúl gurb teanga i mbaol Ollainnis leis.

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Riona
Member
Username: Riona

Post Number: 1348
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 12:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Danny a chara,

Oh, why didn't you tell me before! Now I can stick another story in my chart, go raibh maith agat for mentioning it.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Trigger
Member
Username: Trigger

Post Number: 155
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 12:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Danny that is very interesting you should of hunted him down when you had the chance because that would of been very interesting! ;-)

Without a doubt, there is people on Inis Meáin who is better in Irish, Inis Meáin is the next place on my list to go maybe summer 2009, but I would rather go at a time when there is less tourists...

gaeilgeoir.blogspot.com

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Sieirál
Member
Username: Sieirál

Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2008


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 02:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd love to stay in a B&B in the west of Ireland. :) That would be a dream come true, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford it. :(

And I agree with James a bit, though I think he's being a bit harsh, that one should try to write correct Irish and correct English and not a sloppy combination...unless the person isn't sure how to write it and then they should indicate that and others can show them the right way. I've had to ask for that assistance many times.

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 68
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 03:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

And I agree with James a bit, though I think he's being a bit harsh, that one should try to write correct Irish and correct English and not a sloppy combination...


Except that one person's "sloppy combination" is another's "playful blend". (Feic an cuid tráchtanna deireanach leis atá Dennis t'réis a thabhairt sa snáithe "Hebrew and Irish".) I just discovered that there's a programme in Ireland called "Fáilte Towers", and even if that's not the cleverest pun in the history of both languages, I'd hate to think that kind of play is off limits.

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Sieirál
Member
Username: Sieirál

Post Number: 34
Registered: 01-2008


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 03:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

oh, no that kind of play isn't off limits. I was just commenting on the sentence use of the words. If it's meant to be playful, then by all means, let people use it that way. :)But they shouldn't use it as if it were the correct version of Irish in a proper sentence. That way issues like James is worried about can be avoided.

(Message edited by Sieirál on August 12, 2008)

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member
Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 70
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 04:14 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

But they shouldn't use it as if it were the correct version of Irish in a proper sentence.


I'm not sure what this means. They shouldn't use it on a website aimed at learners? In a classroom setting? In print (as opposed to in speech or on the Internet)? With clerics and language purists? On Sundays and high holy days?

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 160
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 04:57 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Ní hionann "tá sorry orm" agus "tá brón orm"

Mild, self deprecating the one, true sorrow the other.


Irrelevant. If "Níl horses agam" took on a shade of meaning different from "Níl capaill agam" would it become acceptable?

quote:

Léigh níos mó a mhic


Léighim an Ghaedhilg gach lá dem' bheatha. Mar sin féin, go raibh maith agat as do chomhairle, a mhic ó.

quote:

ná bí ag trasnáil - as Béarla - ar dhaoine eile, maith an fear.


Gabh mo leithscéal umhal, a mhúinteoir.


quote:

An droch ghaeilge pingin, margadh, aifreann, cruiscín,


YAWN! The same old painfully tiresome 'argument' - " Irish has a long history of taking in apparently perfectly acceptable loanwords, therefore, the current swamping from English (a) is equally valid & (b) cannot be opposed without opposing all loanwords back to ecclesiastical borrowings from Latin".
Nonsense.

quote:

..cá stopfaidh mé?


I don't know. Try 1960

quote:

Deireann na hOllannaigh "sorry" an t-am ar fad (i nAmsterdam ar aon chuma). Is dóigh liom go gcuireann é sin in iúl gurb teanga i mbaol Ollainnis leis.


Wow! You've opened my eyes. If Dutch can incorporate the beautiful and expressive word 'Sorry' then surely Irish, a language in an almost identical position as Dutch, can do the same!!! Anyone else convinced? No?

Séamus Ó Murchadha

Go mBeannuighe Dia Éire Naomhtha!

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member
Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 71
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 05:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

If "Níl horses agam" took on a shade of meaning different from "Níl capaill agam" would it become acceptable?


And why not? English has room for both ham and prosciutto, time and tempo, country house and villa, etc. It's natural for loanwords (as opposed to nonce borrowings) take on a different nuance of expression than their existing counterparts.

Dálta an scéil, más chomh luachmhar sin atá an teanga Ghaelainne agat, cad'na thaobh ná fuilimíd ag plé ach i mBéarla? An bhfuil sí chomh hEabhrais an Bhíobla, ní éigin atá ro-naofa le húsáid coitianta?

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 161
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 09:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

And why not?


Níl horses agam!!! That's why not.

quote:

Dálta an scéil...


Is fusa dhom mo smaointe a chur in iúil as an teangain luardha fós ag an am seo. Bím im' bhástart leisceamhail go minic gan amhras, leis .

Séamus Ó Murchadha

Go mBeannuighe Dia Éire Naomhtha!

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 603
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I once heard the comparative form :nios sorrier orm and the superlative, is sorriest orm...

sold!

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Jonas
Member
Username: Jonas

Post Number: 985
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 04:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

James, I hear you and I agree. I would like to take this further, though, and ask you to stop mixing all those French words into English. Just in this thread, you keep throwing in words like:

acceptable
apparently
argument
beautiful
continue
convinced
current
during
equally
exist
expressive
history
identical
incorporate
irrelevant
language
nonsense
opposed
perfectly
position
transition
valid

I'm afraid this may be the sign of a "shitty creole". ;)

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Jonas
Member
Username: Jonas

Post Number: 986
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 04:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tuigeann sibh go maith go bhfuilim ag magadh ach bun agus barr an scéil is ea é seo: tá an coibhneas iasachta i bhfad níos lú as an teanga so go fóill...

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Smac_muirí
Member
Username: Smac_muirí

Post Number: 43
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 05:31 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tuigimid agus tuigimid gur chóir 'fear slán' a rá leat féin ar ais a Jonais. Ba fear siúlach thú le scathamh, bail ó Dhia ort, is b'fhéidir go mbeidh scéal leat ar ais inár measc.

Mar a fheicir féin, tá an tóin tite as an teanga (le seachtain agus 800 bliain) is ní fada eile go mbeidh deireadh linn mar dhream teanga nach labhrós feasta ach Glanglais Iar-Normannach. - Níor athraigh tada!
Do chéad míle fáilte ar ais!

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 166
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 06:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

James, I hear you and I agree. I would like to take this further....



Good God! Such devastating wit. Such masterful satire which has completely demolished my arguments at one fell swoop.
It can only be Oscar Wilde, back from the dead and here on this forum!

Séamus Ó Murchadha

Go mBeannuighe Dia Éire Naomhtha!

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Smac_muirí
Member
Username: Smac_muirí

Post Number: 45
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 07:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ní raibh tada ag Oscar na Fiáine ar Jonas na Fionlainne a Shéamais.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7363
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 08:31 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Scríobh Seosamh:
quote:

Do chéad míle fáilte ar ais!



Aiméan, a deirim

Halsingaer, Jonas! Fáilte roimh do chomhairle.

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Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe
Member
Username: Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe

Post Number: 81
Registered: 05-2008


Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 08:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Seo an t-imeartas focal is fearr a chuala mé:

Bhí beirt fhear a rith síos Bóthar na bhFál
Chonaic siad fear ina shuí ar bhalla
An gceapann tú go bhfuil sé san UVF?
Knee-cap him

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7366
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 08:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá caonach liath ar an gceann sin!

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 604
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 09:22 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

hardie har!

"It can only be Oscar Wilde, back from the dead and here on this forum!"

Just as Jonas makes a tentative return, the petite bird of hope gets bludgeoned by a stray paw from today's dual...

As for 'horses' I would have thought it worse than 'sorry' as it can be inflected, so 'aon' and 'amháin' etc can get dropped too when referring to one horse (níl ach capall amháin 'am -->'only bhon (one) horse agam')

sold!

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Asarlaí
Member
Username: Asarlaí

Post Number: 207
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 11:05 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gheobhaidh mé mo chóta .. agoa :0) A bhuel, beidh turas den scoth agam cibé rud a tharlóidh. Go n-éirí libh

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 7368
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 11:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tabhair buataisí ruibéir agus cóta maith baistí leat má tá tú ag dul go hInis Mór. Tá an aimsir in Éirinn lofa faoi láthair!

Bain sult as do thuras.



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