Does anyone know a good place to build up on vobulary besides looking up random words?

Go raibh maith agaibh!

What do you mean by "build up on vocabulary?"

Are you looking to practice new words? Or learn the different forms of words you already know? (singular, plural, genitive, dative...)

Do you want sites?

Before You Know It Irish is a computer program that has a lot of Irish words in thematic groups.

Some of the Irish learning courses out there have started to take a thematic approach so that helps.

There is also the Flash Card Exhange. I have seen a lot of Irish words there.

Personally, I have been hoping to see a website out there that is designed for the sole purpose of being able to practice Irish vocabulary in all its forms. I have thought about creating one myself a time or two, however, I have neither the fluency to do this nor the computer skills needed to creat something like that.

Yes, that kind of site would be useful. I've tried BYKI Irish before and it just didn't have the diversity I needed. I'm a writer first and foremost and I'd just love to be able to express myself with lots of verbs and adjectives, as well as be able to read irish that others write and understand idioms. Is there a site for idioms?

quote:

Personally, I have been hoping to see a website out there that is designed for the sole purpose of being able to practice Irish vocabulary in all its forms.

Céard faoin gceann seo?

It's funny you started this thread just as I was starting my thread on learning nouns...

The problem I found with BYKI is that like most learning products out there, they do not really cover words.

With a language like Irish you cannot just tell a person that the word for cow is "bó." This isn't really helpful because it doesn't prepare a person for the reality that they might enounter "bó" in eight differet ways:

bó
an bhó
na ba
na bó
na mbó
a bhó
a bha
an mbó

Also "ag córcaireacht" doesn't help a person with the verb to cook because it is not preparing them for:

córcaráil
chórcaráil
córcarálann
córcarálfaidh
ag cócaireacht

and so forth...

I have been thinking about creating a site just for this problem. Maybe a random generator that shuffles selected words in all their forms and can score your success. Now that's what BYKI does, but I am talking about going into a lot more depth with each word, and offering a huge selection of Irish words.

The problem is that I don't know how to do such things. I would be more than happy to help create the databases, you do not have to be fluent in a language to do that. You just need the patience ;-)

I was also thinking about having a site that would have fill in the black questions that would cover all the different forms of a word.

And then finally, I have been really impressed with some of the online dictionaries for German. Beolingus and Leo are fantastic. Not only do they allow you to search both English <> German, but when you click on a word it gives you the word in all its forms and examples.

That would be awsome for Irish I think. The Online English to Irish Dictionary is very nice, but it needs a lot of work, it could be a lot better I think. An Foclóir Beag is also a great website, but the Irish only aspect is a little stressful for lower level fluencies, and a lot of words are not found there.

Stressful can be a good thing! The sooner you can get to thinking, reading and writing in Irish instead of about Irish, the more progress you'll be making.

You're right that the verbal noun is not the most logical choice for the base form of a verb. Try the second-person singular imperative instead. Once you know that, everything else but the verbal noun is just a series of endings (and the odd prefix before vowels in a couple of tenses). Learn those endings once and for all, then learn the imperative and the verbal noun for every new verb, and your troubles are over.

LOL...

Why do I think you are hinting at something there Abigail ;-)

Actually, I can write simple sentences in Irish, but I find that I often get into trouble because of my choice of phrases.

That is actually another project I have thought about that would greatly help those learning Irish. Most beginning level courses tell you how to say basic sentences, and some idomatic expressions...but they do not help a learner to start building more complex sentences.

Most of the courses out there don't go beyond the "Tá sé fuar." of "Ba mhaith liom cupan tae."

I have yet to see a course take a person through a process that would allow them go for more complex sentences like "There were five butterflies on those blue flowers over there, but the wind blew stongly and now there are only two butterflies."

A DC, cad'na thaobh go bhfuil áil ort rás a rith sula mbeir in ann a bheith id sheasamh?

Ní ag hinteáil a bhí mé ar chor ar bith, ach ag labhairt díreach amach leat. "Cleachtadh a dhéanann máistreacht."

Más féidir leat abairtí simplí a scríobh, in ainm Muiris bí ag scríobh abairtí simplí! Má bhíonn tú i dtrioblóid leo, bí i dtrioblóid - cén dochar? Gheobhaidh tú lámh cúnta i gcónaí.

Is fearr duit Gaeilge lag "trioblóideach" féin a scríobh ná Gaeilge bhreá bhinn mhilis a phlé i dteanga eile.

Is eagal liom nach bhfuil sé sa chinniúint do éinne againn a cheangal a scaoileadh, ach ní miste a bheith ag tathaint air go deimhin. Is le síorshileadh na fearthainne a ídeofar an charraig féin.
Ní 'dochinniúint' is ainm dó ar a laghad ar bith, a bhuí don fhleiscín folíne, agus tá súil agam go dtosóidh sé ag scaoileadh linn an fofhocal Gaeilge anois is arís le himeacht ama.

Nuair is mian leat cor a chur inár gcinniúint agus sinn go léir a chur ar ár suaimhneas a Cheann na Cinniúna, beimid faoi chomaoin agat.

Tá ceart ag Abigail. Caithfidh 'chuile fhoghlaimeoir iarracht a scríobh as Gaeigle anseo. Bheinn (would?) sé go hiontach má tá snáitheanna éasca as Gaeilge anseo.

quote:

There were five butterflies on those blue flowers over there, but the wind blew stongly and now there are only two butterflies.

Bhí cúig fhéileacán ar bláthanna gorm sin ansúid, ach séid gaoth go láidir agus anois, tá dhá fhéileacán anois.

Just a shot at it, that's all. I couldn't figure out how to say "only two."
FRC, GRMA

(Message edited by Student on July 22, 2008)

(Message edited by Student on July 22, 2008)

Tagaim leat a mhic léinn agus is teanga iontach casta é an Béarla chomh maith le sin. Fágaimis inár ndiaidh é de réir a chéile. Féach seo mar chastacht (focail):

With a language like English you cannot just tell a person that the word for bó is ‘cow’. This isn't really helpful because it doesn't prepare a person for the reality that they might enounter ‘cow’ in eight differet ways:

cow
the cow
the cows
of the cow
of the cows
oh cow
oh cows
with the cow

Also ‘cooking’ doesn't help a person with the verb ‘cócaireacht’ because it is not preparing them for:

cook
cooked
cooks
shall cook
cooking

and so forth...

Tá a fhios agam go máróidh tú mé a Dho Chinniúint as an gcleas a imirt ort, ach féach nach furasta mar theanga an Béarla é féin. Seachas eisceacht urú an tuisil tabharthaigh (... an mbó) sa nGaeilg, is beag atá eatarthu.

Actually, I am not certain that is quite the same thing...

With most ESL courses, if not all ESL courses, they do not teach verbs in that manner. They teach "to cook" and then from that they teach the different grammatical spelling forms. I have never seen a course introduce "cooking" first.

While I get the point, you can't quite reverse that for the same effect.

Also, there are only two spelling forms of "cow" and not eight. (cow and cows) I am talking about the different grammatical spellings for each word. In Irish the grammatical function dictates the different spellings and pronunciations...while this happens in English also, it is not as extreme.

If a person with little exposure to Irish was to hear a person say "uisce, huiscí, and n-uiscí" do you think they would know that that person was talking about "water"? I would wager no...they would think they said three different words with three different meanings. But if a person with little exposure to English was to hear a native say "the waters" or "with water" they would know that the person was talking about the same word.

A student learning Irish might be more likely to think that "bó, ba" are different words with no relation if they are not properly told about the possible changes before hand.

I think most people can see that there is a potential for a connection between cow and cows regardless of the words you put in front of it.

(Message edited by do_chinniúint on July 22, 2008)

Mar is nós leat, coinneoidh tú an t-úll i bhfad ón úllort.

'Chócaráil' agus 'cócaráilte', feilfidh sé sin do ghiolla na leisce chomh maith, sa méid gur aon leagan amháin Béarla 'cooked', a reicfeas iad araon. D'fhéadfaí a bheith ag cúngú teanga oiread, ar ndóigh, is nach mbeadh sa deireadh agat ach duth is dath. Ní duth is dath for is fónamh móráin, lucht foghlama san áireamh má deirim é.
Ní ag déanamh O Rahilly díom féin atá mé má deirim go bhfuil a leithéid de rogha ag an nGaeilg cheana ach a lorg a chur, Gaeilg Ellen Vannen, mar measaim gur fiú a lorg a chur:

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/manxsoc/msvol02/
http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaelg/gaelg.html
http://www.celticleague.net/branches/mannin.html
http://www.celticleague.net/

Céard faoi Ghaeilg na hÉireann anois mar leat féin mar sin?

A person with little exposure to Irish ... would think...
An tusa an duine sin?
An bhfuil duine mar sin anseo ar chor ar bith?

A student learning Irish might...
An bhfuil tusa ag foghlaim Gaeilge?

quote:

Bhí cúig fhéileacán ar bláthanna gorm sin ansúid, ach séid gaoth go láidir agus anois, tá dhá fhéileacán anois.

Just a shot at it, that's all. I couldn't figure out how to say "only two."

Níl caill air i n-aon chor! The usual means of expressing "only" in Irish is somewhat roundabout: NEG + ach. So níl ann ach dhá fhéileacán anois. Agus bhainfinnse úsáid as níos mó alt ná tusa: Bhí cúig fhéileacán ar na bláthanna gorma sin ansin, ach shéid an ghaoth go láidir...

(Ar ndóigh, níl ionam ach foghlaimeoir mé féin.)

Well, if you would like to comission someone with knowledge of the programing languages I know someone. Email them at and see if she'll help you.
Tell her Lunarwings sent you.

Go raibh maith agat a Dhomhnaillín. Tuigim anois.

It's very nice that the more experienced members make the effort to help out learners like me with our Irish. I really appreciate it.

(Message edited by Student on July 23, 2008)

"I have yet to see a course take a person through a process that would allow them go for more complex sentences "

Might be waiting a long time...still you can make them yourself:

There were five butterflies/ on those blue flowers over there/ but the wind blew stongly/ and there only two now

Bhí cúig fhéileacán/ ar na bláthanna gorma sin ansin/ ach/ shéid an ghaoth go láidir/ agus níl ach dá cheann ann anois

Existential + Agent: butterflies (5) "There are 5 butterflies"
Spatial: flowers (on) "on flowers"; Quality: blue "on blue flowers"
Position: (over) there "over there"
Conjunction -restrictive "but"
Action + Agent: wind (blow) "wind blew"
Conjunction -semi-negative "only"
Agent/number: 2 "two"
Time: "now"

With the same idea we can make this...

Existential + Agent: bulls (2) "Bhí dhá tarbh"
Spatial/location: floor (under) "under the floor"; Quality: donn "faoin urlár dhonn"
Location: under speaker "faoi mo chosa féin"
Conjunction -restrictive "ach"
Initialization: start (tosaigh) "thosaigh"
Action + Agent: ground (quake) "an talamh ag crith"
Conjunction -semi-negative "only"
Agent/number/thing: zero "faic"
Time: "now"


Bhí dhá tarbh faoin urlár dhonn, faoi mo chosa féin, ach thosaigh an talamh ag crith, agus níl faic ann anois!"


It's only an idea!

The type of book I am thinking of is similar to a little book I had for German from Berlitz called "German Step by Step."

The whole book is a series of sentence writing excercise with answers in the back covering a whole range of grammar. Although it never tells you that it is targeting certain grammar points. It was just a writing excercise book.

However, It did require a dictionary for those with limited vocabulary. So it was also a good introducer of vocab.

It had you translate simple sentences in both English and German such as "The boy is big." and "The black dog ran very quickly."

And as the book went on, it slowly progressed in complexity.

Soon it started giving you sentences such as "The nice man over there gave me money for food." and "The comical monkey was swinging from tree to tree."

As the sentences grew in complexity, so did the length of the exercises. By 2/3 the book, you were translating whole paragraphs in both English and German.

I found it to be very helpful. I never finished the book because I lost it, but I have seen it at the local bookstore a few times.

Something like that could be very helpful for Irish. Not only would it aid in writing skills, but it could be used to introduce new vocab also.

1. Existential + Agent: There are 3 trees
Spatial: by the river
Quality: slow
Position: behind my home
Conjuction/Restictive: but
Action + Agent: a storm came
Conjuction-semi-negative: and only
Agent/number: one
Time: is there now.

Tá trí chreann / le an habhainn / ar chul mo theach / ach / thainig stoirm / agus níl ach aon ann anois.

2. Verb: ran
Subject: a man
Adjective: tall
Adverb: quickly
Direction: up
Direct Object: the road
Adjective: dirt
Time: this morning

Rith / fear / ard / go gasta / suas / an tsraid / brocamas / ar maidin seo.



An ceart é?

(Message edited by Sieirál on July 24, 2008)

3. Existential + Agent: I had 1 animal
Spatial: in my bedroom
Quality: small
Position: at home
Conjuction/Restictive: but
Action + Agent: I bought 4 more
Conjuction-semi-negative: only
Agent/number: 2
Time: months ago.

Bhí ainmhí agat / i mo sheomra leaba / beag, / ach / cheannaigh mé ceathair níos mo, / níl ach / dhá / mí ó shin.


Seo freisin...

(Message edited by sieirál on July 24, 2008)

An bhfuilir cinnte, a Shieirál, gur ceart "ceathair níos mo" a rá? Shílfinnse "ceithre cinn breise" nó rud cosúil le sin.

A Dhomhnaillín,
Thugim mé "níos mo" = "more". Ach féachfaidh mé ag "ceithre cinn breise". Cé ceart é?

(Message edited by sieirál on July 24, 2008)

Tá ceithre abairt ar a laghad go bhfuil a fhios agam fúthu go bhfuilid siad ar comhbhrí le "more", de réir an chomhthéacs: níos mó, a thuilleadh, eile agus breis. Is féidir go bhféadfá úsáid a dhéanamh de níos mó anso, ach ní mheasaím gur ceart ar fad an dóigh í ina dheinis é seo.

Lookin' good!

Tá trí chrann in aice leis an abhainn ar chúl mo thí, ach tháinig stoirm agus níl ach crann amháin ann anois.
"Le" turns into "leis" before the article: "leis an." Also it means "with" rather than "nearby", so I changed it to "in aice le(is an)."
"Teach" goes into the genitive because it's after a compound preposition.
Generally you can't say just "one" or "three" by itself unless you're talking about the number 1 or 3. If it's one of something you have to include the noun, so: "crann amháin."

Rith fear ard go gasta suas an bóthar cré ar maidin.
An-mhaith! "Ar maidin" is automatically either "this morning" or "in the morning", depending on context - no need to add the "inniu."

Bhí ainmhí (amháin) agam i mo sheomra leaba beag, ach cheannaigh mé ceithre cinn eile, níl ach dhá mhí ó shin.
Same thing again with the numbers. If you don't want to repeat the noun itself ("ceithre ainmhí eile") you can also use "ceann" for objects and animals, "duine" for people.
(Note that "ceann" used this way is one of only a handful of nouns which do take the plural after numbers. That's why it's "ceithre ainmhí" but "ceithre cinn.")

quote:

agus níl ach crann amháin ann anois

Seo í mo thuiscint go n-aistrítear an t-ainmní go dtí deireadh na habairte agus go mbíonn forainmneacha (agus rud) i gcónaí taobh istigh den fhráma “níl ... ach” (níl raibh aici ach é, níl ann anois ach crann amháin).

"seomra leapa", is dóigh, an ceann is cirte.

In aice na habhann
nó
Cois abhainn

a bheadh agamsa.

seachas "in aice leis an abhann"

Ach níl mé cinnte cén fáth, seachas nach bhfuil aon rud in aice le habhann seachas a bhruach!

In aice na habhann, or in aice leis an abhainn

Cois abhann (cois is followed by the genitive)

in aice le habhainn

By the way, in Donegal the genitive of abhainn is abhanna.


I'd say "níl ann ach crann amháin" or "níl fágtha ach crann amháin" or "níl ach crann amháin fágtha".

"Cois abhann" an leagan is túisce a rithfeadh liom féin chomh maith. Ar son an íosionraithe a bhí mé.

I dtaca le “in aice leis an abhainn”, tá ceann seargtha i gConamara, de réir chosúlacht – ar bhruach abhann (cf. faoi bhun croinn) agus úsáid bainte as an nginideach uatha gan alt roimhe.