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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (July - August) » Archive through August 02, 2008 » Multiple words with the same meaning « Previous Next »

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student (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 01:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I was watching a TV program about the English Language where it was described how French words entered the English vocabulary. What caught my interest was the fact that the English began using French words which had similar, but slightly different meanings to the words they were already using.

For example, the English word "hard" was supplemented by the French derived word "difficult." Although the words are similar in nature, they also have shades of difference, which, as the program described, has added immensely to the power of the English language. Likewise, the word for the animal pig would be supplemented by the French word "pork" and "cattle" would be associated with the French derived word "beef."


I apologize for not couching my question in perfect linguistic form but I am curious, does this kind of process also occur in Irish? That is, are there two of more words associated with the same or similar meaning, which come from other languages?

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4039
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 07:43 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yes. Irish has been borrowing for the past 1,500 years (that we know of), from Latin, Welsh, Old Norse, Anglo-Saxon, Norman French, English. This has resulted in some close semantic doublets, and sometimes in native words being retired in favor of borrowed terms.

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe
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Username: Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe

Post Number: 15
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 07:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I tend to use the Irish word that's most different to the English one, e.g. "artola" instead of "peitreal" :-D

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4041
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 07:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Agus "guthán" in áit "teileafón" ?

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe
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Username: Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe

Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2008


Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 08:30 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go deimhin! Ní chloisféa an dara focal as mo bhéal!

Ní maith liom féachaint ar chláraibh theilifíse cosúil le "Ros na Rún"... Bíonn mearbhall orthu cén teanga a bhíonns siad a labhairt: "tá an bainne sa fridge" nó "beidh mé ag babysiteáil".

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4043
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 08:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ah, purist atá ionat. ;-) Tuigim duit, áfach. Is fearr liom "guthán" tóisc go bhfuil "ar an nguthán" níos binne ná "ar an bhfón", dar liomsa.

Seo péire suimiúil:

maighnéid
adhmaint

Both mean "magnet", both come from Latin, probably in the late medieval period. It might be fun to do a Google Fight between them. Chuirfinn geall go mbeadh an bua ag "maighnéid".

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4044
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 08:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hey, d'athraigh tú do phictiúr! Is fearr liom an chéad cheann -- cé nach bhfuil aon locht ar do mheangadh gáire seo cheann seo ach oiread.

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe
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Username: Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe

Post Number: 19
Registered: 05-2008


Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 08:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dá mbeadh muintir na hÉireann ag labhairt Fraincíse sa ló atá inniubh in ionad Bhéarla, bheinn ag roghnú na bhfocal nGaoluinne atá difriúil ó na focalaibh Fhraincíse! :-D

Deich nóiméad chun a dó ar maidin is ea an t-am anso in Éirinn... táim ag bualadh mo leapa! ZZzzzz

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Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe
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Username: Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe

Post Number: 20
Registered: 05-2008


Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 08:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Choimeádfainn an chéad phictiúir ach coinním mo chuid gruaige bearrtha sa ló atá inniubh! Fear praiticiúil atá ionam haha!

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4046
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 09:59 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's a nice duo, both of which translate "economy":

geilleagar (a 20th century coinage from native roots)

eacnamaíocht (a gaelicized international borrowing)

The on-line dictionary Pota Focal makes the proper distinction between them: http://www.potafocal.com/Search.aspx?Text=economy

This nice distinction is frequently ignored, however, with "eacnamaíocht" serving both functions.

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Diarmo
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Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 262
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 05:22 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What is the root of Geilleagar? and what exactly is it´s meaning?

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4048
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 09:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dúirt James Murphy i dteachtaireacht i Mí na Bealtaine:
quote:

Also, am I right in assuming that 'Geilleagar' (economy) is made up of 'geall' + 'eagar'?

He was, indeed.

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 29
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 12:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

buachaill ón PC. bou- "bó" + kwoljo- "tiománaí"

garsún ón SFhr. garcion

Agus leagan garsúin is ea gasúr, ní hea?

Tá leis leanbh agus páiste (ón A-N page) ann, ach ní hionann ar fad an bhrí atá leis an dá fhocal.

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4056
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 11:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Samplaí maithe! An bhfuil péirí eile agat?

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 31
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 04:34 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Otharlann agus ospidéal? Níl dóthain Gaelainne agam go bhfuilim in ann a rá cé acu is fíor-chomhchiallaigh iad.

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 4058
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 06:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is péire maith é sin. Sílim go mbíonn an t-otharlann níos lú ná an t-ospidéal de ghnáth, ach tugtar aire do dhaoine breoite insan dá áit. Agus céard faoi "lia" agus "dochtúir"? An-chosúil le "physician" agus "doctor" i mBéarla a déarfainn.

Maidir le -lann, tá an focal "cartlann" ann agus baintear úsáid as go rialta, ach chonaic mé "aircív" áit éigin ar na mallaibh. Níl sé in FGB, ach feicim go bhfuil sé ag focal.ie.

(Message edited by dennis on July 10, 2008)

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe
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Username: Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe

Post Number: 31
Registered: 05-2008


Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 07:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

ach chonaic mé "aircív"

Is fuath liom focail mar sin, táid sa bhád chéanna le leithéid "teileafóin". Toisc gurb é Béarla an teanga atá níos láidre i gcóngaracht na Gaoluinne, ceapaim gurb é an rogha is fearr do chainteoiríbh ná focail a roghnú atá difriúil ón bhfocal Béarla.

"artola" in ionad "peitreal"
"guthán" in ionad "teileafóin"

Sé an sampla is fearr sa Ghaoluinn de shárfhocal a cumadh sa ló atá inniubh ná "srónbheannach" ar "rhinoceros". Más féidir Gaoluinn dheas a chur ar "rhinoceros", cad atá ann nach féidir Gaoluinn dheas a chur air!

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Student Pending Registration (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 03:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Very interesting examples above.

Scríobh Dennis

quote:

Seo péire suimiúil:

maighnéid
adhmaint

Both mean "magnet", both come from Latin, probably in the late medieval period.



To me, as a mere student, "maighnéid" sounds like an obvious borrowing from some other language, like Latin as Dennis indicates, but "adhmaint," with the "adh" beginning, sounds very much like an Irish construction.

I'm interested in what impact there is in having the pairs of similar words in Irish. How do these pairs of words influence the language? Is it at times a positive influence where the additional word adds extra meaning or a different flavor of the original word?

I can see that sometimes the additional word may not have a positive influence and may lead to the demise of the original Irish word.

I'm sure I'm not phrasing my thoughts above in a linguistically correct format, but I thought I would at least ask as best as I could since I think it's very interesting how foreign words enter a language, like Irish, and would like to understand the positive effects, if any.



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