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Niamh83
Member Username: Niamh83
Post Number: 25 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 05:14 am: |
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A chairde, Wondered if anyone could help. I am translating an old Medieval tale from French into Irish and I am missing the word for "manuscript". Focloir says: "lamhscribhinn" but that's "manuscript" as in "written by hand", I am looking for a word for the actual manuscripts where you'd have found the histories of monastries, transcriptions of Gregorian Chants, etc. As this is quite fundamental to my story, it is sort of important I find the right word, or at least, convey the right idea in a not too stylistically heavy way (I'll then have to learn this story for a comhortas in Ireland, so it has to be kept failry simple). Anyway, thanks for your help! Adh mor. Niamh. :.) |
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James
Member Username: James
Post Number: 548 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 08:23 am: |
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Niamh, A Chara: Don't you think "written by hand" conveys the way in which Medieval transcriptions were recorded? Until the invention of the printing press that's how history and literature were recorded as well as reproduced. I don't have another word for you but I thought I'd give my perspective. Sometimes the writer is too close to the subject. From a potential reader's perspective, I would fully understand and appreciate the meaning of lamhscribhinn. As one who has a rather elementary understanding of Irish, I would intuitively translate lamhscribhinn as "written by hand." Just my two cents worth. Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón. Fáilte roimh cheartú, go deo.
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Míshásta (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 08:26 am: |
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'Manuscript' means a document or book written by hand. "Lámhscríbhinn" plural "lámhscríbhinní" is the word you want. Wait for confirmation from more learned contributors. |
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Abigail
Member Username: Abigail
Post Number: 782 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 10:46 am: |
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"lámhscríofa" - manuscript, handwritten (an adjective) "lámhscríbhinn" - manuscript, a handwritten document (a noun) Compare to "clóscríbhinn", which is a typed or printed document, and "bunscríbhinn" which is an original document. Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 4030 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 12:02 pm: |
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Úsáidtear an giorrúchán LS uaireanta, ar nós MS i mBéarla. "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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Do_chinniúint
Member Username: Do_chinniúint
Post Number: 339 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 02:56 pm: |
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Have you considered other words than "manuscript?" At first when you descibed what you are looking for, the first words that popped into my head were things like chronicles, documents, or just plain records. The nitty bitty of it is that "manuscript" is devrived from Latin's "manu scriptus." Which literally means "written by hand." So in that case, "lámhscríbhinní" would be quite on the mark. But if you are looking more for a word with the meaning of a historical record of something, I suggest looking at these types of words. chronicle = croinic chronicles = croinicí document = doiciméad documents = doiciméid old document = seandoiciméad old documents = seandoiciméid record = taifead records = taifid old record = seanthaifead old records = seanthaifid These are just suggestions. |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 4033 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 04:29 pm: |
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quote:old record = seanthaifead old records = seanthaifid Tá rud éigin mícheart anseo. Cad é? "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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Do_chinniúint
Member Username: Do_chinniúint
Post Number: 340 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 09:11 pm: |
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Do you mean in terms of how I wrote it...or...the word "taifead" itself? When I look up "record" I get a whole list of possibilities...but I thought maybe this word would be the first option that meant "record" in terms of documentation? I know that "sean" doesn't aspirate a "d" but I wasn't certain if that applied to "t" also? If you meant the words "taifead" and "taifid"...I took them straight from An Foclóir Beag. (Message edited by do_chinniúint on July 06, 2008) |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 4034 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 11:33 pm: |
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quote:I know that "sean" doesn't aspirate a "d" but I wasn't certain if that applied to "t" also? Bingo. :-) The DeNTaLS rule is at work here. When two words are joined into one compound word, the second word is normally lenited. But a dental consonant at the end of the first word will block lentition of any dental at the beginning of the second word. "DeNTaLS watch each other's backs." sean + bróg > seanbhróg Ach: sean + duine > seanduine sean + teach > seanteach mall +briathrach > mallbhriathrach (slow-talking) Ach: mall + triallach > malltriallach (slow-moving, sluggish) cos + muintir > cosmhuintir (proles) Ach: cos + tinn > costinn (footsore) agus mar sin de. "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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Do_chinniúint
Member Username: Do_chinniúint
Post Number: 341 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 07:24 am: |
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I see what you mean now. Cool, GRMA Dennis a chara. So for the record ;-) record = taifead records = taifid old record = seantaifead old redords = seantaifid |
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Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe
Member Username: Tomás_Ó_hÉilidhe
Post Number: 12 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 01:22 pm: |
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quote:But a dental consonant at the end of the first word will block lentition of any dental at the beginning of the second word. I ngach canúint? Bhí mé ag smaoineamh cad a thabharfaí ar "Institute of Technology" as Gaoluinn? Institiúid Theicneolaíochta nó Institiúíd Teicneolaíochta ? Tá 's agam go ndeirtear "bean dheas" mar sin nílim cinnte. Dosna cainteoiríbh dúchasachaibh inár measc, cad a déarfádh sibh? |
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 474 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 01:45 pm: |
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Ní "Institiúid Theicneolaíochta" ná "bean dheas" comhfhocail. |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 4036 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 01:53 pm: |
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Tabhair faoi deara go ndúirt mé "When two words are joined into one compound word". All bets are off nuair nach comhfhocal atá i gceist. "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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Niamh83
Member Username: Niamh83
Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 03:38 pm: |
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Go rabh mile maith agaibh as na freagrai ar fad! Abigail, ta tu ceart, ni rabh mé cinnte idir an ainmfhocal agus an aidiacht (as in "a manuscript" versus "this letter is manuscript" as Béarla). Ach ta tu ceart, bheadh an adiacht "lamhscriofa" so nil "ambiguities" ann ansin! Ta mé ag cuairtu an focal "manuscript" i ndairire mar ta an sceal ata mé ag aistriu faoi manach a bhi ag scriobh lamhscribhinn i mainistir so sin é an focal ata uaim i ndairire. Ach bhi sé aisteach, bhi mé ag amharc piosa den chlar ar TG4 ar an t-idirlion areir. Ni rabh mé cinnte cén chlar a bhi ann ach chuala mé an focal "lamhscribhinn" ansin! B'chlar faoi Star é agus bhi seandalai ag caint faoi na ruadai sin ansin! Nach aisteach é sin! Ach go rabh maith agaibh as na freagrai ar fad, ta siad iontach maith, mar is ghnath! :.) |
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