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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (May - June) » Archive through May 17, 2008 » Rosetta Stone Review « Previous Next »

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1240
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 08:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Alright, so it turns out that they include four times the material that I initially thought they did. The full package consists of three levels. Each level contains four units. Each unit contains four "core lessons" and between four and twenty-five supporting lessons for each core lesson.

At the end of each unit is a "milestone" in which you are a participant in a sequence of events via a slideshow with prompts for you to respond orally.

There was a question as to whether or not everything was tá+vn. For the first two units, it is. I'm just doing the unit 3 core lesson right now and they are introducing the present tense of all the verbs for which verbal nouns were used in lessons 1 and 2.

I've had to get used to a few Munster pronunciations that are different from what I'm used to hearing, particularly "tinn" and some internal slender Ds, but it seems that the program will take (even on the most stringent setting) either the pronunciation given or a more connemara pronunciation as correct. Next time I see "maith" I'll see if it takes the ulster, but I'm sure it will.

In the first two units one covers colors, foods, masc/fem concepts, possession, genitives and plurals, where one lives, countries, rooms of the house, introductions, "how are you?" "Where are you from?" counting things, counting people, articles of clothing, hair color, places where people live (houses, apartments, etc), a host of animals and activities, prepositions for on/in/under, near to/far from, cuid, and numerous other things that slip my mind at the moment.

It even goes so far as to teach the distinction between, "they are reading newspapers," "they are reading their newspaper," and "they are reading their newspapers."

You are asked to read things aloud, to select written answers based on pictures, to respond aloud to things with no written prompt, and eventually to type things from hearing them (so it teaches Irish spelling, too).

All that on the first half of the first cd.

I will post other things to this thread as they come up. Anyone else who has specific questions should post them as well as others who have the software and can speak from first-hand experience.

I do ask that we leave the debate that derailed the other thread on the other thread and allow this one to be a resource for people considering this expensive purchase to see what features and materials are included in the program.

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Roisín Leac (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 08:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cé mhéad dlúthdhiosca agat?

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1241
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 09:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

tá lán an thrír (all three?) dlúthdhiosca agam.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 10:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tuigim. Tá súim agat san aistriú ar líne. Sílim go mbeadh sé cosúil le tumadh ar feadh trí míosa.

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Jeannette
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Username: Jeannette

Post Number: 15
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 11:24 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

GRMA, re posting about Rosetta Stone content.

I am particularly wondering if the higher levels, say Level 3 would give instruction in how to use other tenses of many of the verbs...past, future, perfect etc.

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1242
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 09:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Not sure. I'll let you know when I get there =). I'm going to do some more tonight, I think. I find it works best if I do a little every day paired with reading (something new for me in Irish). So far this month I've gone through An Tobar and Dúnmharú ar an Dart. I'm now waffling between Dúnmharú sa Daingean (see a pattern developing?) and Ginger i gCois Fharraige...DsaD is winning, I think. But I am finding that vocabulary in the RS is helping me to read those books.

I figure I've spent years amassing about five linear feet of as Gaeilge lit, ranging from Bran ag Obair to Péig...'bout time I started working my way through them...

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1254
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 08:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

first half of unit three:

answering questions with positive/negative forms of verb.

introduction of "speak" "teach" "study" (and others) along with several languages

counting up to sixty as well as up to sixty things with constructions like "diachead a dó" and "sé phláta is fiche"

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Liam_fitz
Member
Username: Liam_fitz

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 09:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My copy of RS just arrived today. I'll get it installed Saturday morning and dive in. I can't wait to start!

Fitz

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1255
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yay! remember to adjust those settings. Can't wait to hear what you think.

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Liam_fitz
Member
Username: Liam_fitz

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 01:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well, I got it installed last night and since starting this morning, I've managed to get up to Unit 1 lesson 3. The lessons are verrrrry long! They are a mix of vocabulary, speaking, writing and reading. I can see that doing 1 lesson per night during the work week will be about all I can squeeze in.

The interface is extremely intuitive and easy to navigate. It allows the learner to focus on learning and not the software. I work in software QA and this is the golden ring that software developers strive for. RS has hit the mark.

I tested out the voice recognition and the default setting is way too easy to be useful, as Antaine said. This should be set to "difficult" at a minimum. Still, either I am just an Irish pronounciation wiz kid or I need to crank it up even more as I haven't gotten one wrong yet. :)

The combination of Pimsleur and all the reading I've done online has served me well. I breezed through the first 2 lessons at a blistering pace scoring very high 90's and usually 100% at every stage. I am finding out that I've learned far more Irish than I would have given myself credit for. Still, I know it gets tougher from here and soon I'll be hitting the vocab and grammar that I don't know.

So far, I'm really liking it. Seems like the right amount of repetion and again, the interface could not be better.

It will be interesting to see what my wife, who is lagging behind me, just at level 3 of Pimsleur with almost no study of vocab and grammar, can do with it.

More to come when I get deeper.

Its going to be raining here in NH all weekend, so I may be able to get through another 2 or 3 lessons.

Fitz

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1259
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 05:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have chosen to shoot for this as a minimum

every day, do one core lesson or 2-3 supporting lessons

that is far more useful than doing three hours once a week. I find i can get through a core lesson in 20mins (it recommends 30) and a supporting lesson in 5-10 mins. This is with the exception of the few supporting lessons that are as long as core lessons themselves.

I breezed through unit 1, slowed down a little in unit 2, and slowed down a lot in unit 3.

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1260
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 12:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Just a note, since I saw it suggested on the other thread before it was closed - be very wary of buying used copies of RS. It requires an activation code to get past the first couple lessons. The system seems designed to actively foil the sale of used copies. I have not been able to find any way to make a copy work once it has already been registered.

If you wish to save money, buy the subscription (I recommend 6mos to give yourself enough time to get through it all).

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1263
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 08:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

So I just finished the fourth core lesson in unit 3. That lesson, which will be expanded on and reinforced by the ten or so subsequent supporting lessons, covers

washing things and body parts
the face
wet/dry
clean/dirty
asking where and why
because
toothbrush/toothpaste/teeth
brush/soap/towel
pillow/sheet/blanket
how much/many

They're still mostly using passive voice (á + constructions), which I find more confusing than if they just taught how to conjugate the verbs, but I've known numerous other methods in other languages to do the same thing (sticking with verbal nouns and passive voice for awhile). That being said, they are doing some straight conjugation of regular verbs.

I'll keep you posted if anything new pops up in the supporting lessons before the end of the unit. Probably won't get to that until after the immersion weekend though...gotta go talk to some fíor daoine once in a while, after all...

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 455
Registered: 09-2006


Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 08:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

For anybody who wants to sample the Irish language version of this product, you can call their customer service department at 888-232-9245 and ask for an Irish language demo version. They'll then mail you a CD containing the first lesson.

Why they don't do this online is beyond me, as they used to, but there you have it. (Also, be prepared for a bit of a hard sell... "it comes with an unconditional money-back offer, why not just buy it?", you get the drift.)

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Liam_fitz
Member
Username: Liam_fitz

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 10:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Note to self: Slow down on pronouciation exercises!

The deeper I get, the more I realize that the program is allowing me to move on when I know my pronounciation is crap. This, even with the setting on "difficult". Stop here and use the pronounciation practice dialogs to nail the phrase before moving on. It will pay off down the road. I noticed that the constant repetion in Pimsleur was key to me being able to easily mimic the native speakers pronounciation and retain it. Gotta do the same thing in RS. After all, speaking it fluently and properly is the goal.

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 541
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 01:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Guys the naivety here is laughable -not only have they the BEST learning system in the world -they now have the BEST voice recognition system in the world...like why don't I tell my toaster from half the house away to put down a few slices while drunk and slurring -why? Because voice recog is not that good, but Rosetta seems to have nailed it. Right.

le díol

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Liam_fitz
Member
Username: Liam_fitz

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 06:24 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hmmm. I don't think I'm naive at all. I can play back my recording side by side with the native speaker and and easily hear the difference. I can re-record the byte over and over until my pronounciation matches what I'm hearing from the speaker. Its really not that difficult.

My ears (and brain) are infinitely more sohisticated instruments than the softwares voice recognition system. I can discern extremely subtle variations between the two and adjust my pronounciation until I've nailed (not RS) the phrase. Thus, I am not relying RS's VR.

Thanks, you've made my point.

(Message edited by liam_fitz on May 11, 2008)

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Do_chinniúint
Member
Username: Do_chinniúint

Post Number: 286
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 10:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Liam Fitz,

There are going to be differences between your voice and that of the native speaker's. Actually, if you were to do one recording of your voice, and the do it again and play them side by side, there will also be differences.

People's voices are almost as unique as their fingerprints. Speech recognition software works by using the native speaker's voice as a medium standard and then creates an acceptable range both plus and minus because it is impossible to match the voices perfectly. You may be able to hear subtle differences, which is good because it means your ears are tuning in to Irish, but if the program lets you move on then your pronunciation was acceptable.

Also you have to take into account for things like accent which are often a major factor. Unless you live in the area of the native speaker, you are going to have a different accent and it will show.

I would not be too worried about this. I know you want to master your pronunciation, but remember, it is "your" pronunciation. You are going to mimic the native speaker's only long enough to establish a basic comfort level with the sounds of Irish.

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Wee_falorie_man
Member
Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 172
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 11:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have been working with Rosetta Stone for a couple of weeks now and so far, all is well. It's fun, easy, and I'm learning alot. The price is a little steep but I would definitely recommend it to anyone who is serious about learning Irish.

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Wee_falorie_man
Member
Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 173
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 02:49 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Whew, I just made it through my first "milestone" (Unit 1) and I'm champing at the bit to start on Unit 2

This stuff is so much fun compared to the old, boring grammar books that I've been using until now It's nice to see that they've finally come out with something better.

Now that I have Rosetta Stone, I've been spending WAY more time studying Irish - at least a couple of hours every day. I really appreciate the fact that the lessons are in Irish, without any spoken or written English whatsoever. This forces you to speak, listen, write, etc. entirely in Irish, in order to get through the lesson. It's the closest thing to immersion that I can get, over here in New Mexico



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