I read a previous posting in here on the different forms of address for the word brother. Here is my question put simply

I want my tattoo to say simply "brother" - I know it's for my brother he's going to get "sister". So what is the proper look for just the noun "brother"? What got confusing was the dots, no dots, etc.

Brother = deartháir

Okay so we decided we would like our tattoo to say this

My brother Aaron

His would be

My sister Carole

Do our names translate into Irish?

If I have this right
a dearthair (with the accent on the a)
a deirfuir (with the accent on the u)

Is this correct?

Whe you're addressing to someone, if you say "my brother!" it is: "a dheartháir!" and if you say "my sister!" it is: "a dheirfiúr" (or "a dheirfear" in Donegal).

I think Carole is Caral in Irish, for Aaron I'm not sure: I saw "Árón" on several websites but since these were full of mistakes, there may be a mistake in that name too...

Please wait for other answers...

Aaron is a Biblical name, so anyone with an Irish Bible should be able to answer the question, right? I've found this site: http://briathar.materdei.ie/ to be reliable on Biblical matters before and they also give the spelling "Árón", e.g. "...os ár gcomhair ina bhfuil Maois, Árón, Iacób, Dáiví agus araile le feiceáil".

(Interesting about the pronunciation of deirfiúr in Donegal. I'm more puzzled than ever about what the CO spelling is based on, since in Munster it's driofúr--a spelling even Ó Siadhail uses, although he transcribes the CF pronunciation as /dr'aur/.)

ok so i'm not addressing anyone it is more a statement "My Brother Aaron" Does that change the spelling and/or accentuations?

Carole, whatever you do, wait for LOTS more answers before you get inked. Many times it isn't possible to translate even simple things straight into Irish.

Unregistered Guest:

Dáiví

Are you sure this is a traditional spelling? With a v?

Mo dheartháir Aaron (or Áron)
Mo dheirfiúr Carole

Personally, I would not try to translate the names, as they do not have native equivalents in Irish.

doesn't carol have a translation? I mean I was named at christmas after "christmas carol" - doesn't carol in that use have a translation?

Look at it this way, Carole: the names John and Sean both exist in America. Sean happens to be the Irish equivalent of John. If your brother were named John, would it makes sense to change it to Sean on a tattoo? Then you'd get "Hey Carole, I didn't know you have a brother named Sean!" I think it would be wise to follow Aonghus's advice and stay with your actual names, Aaron and Carole.

Strictly speaking, names don't have translations because they don't have meanings. Their only linguistic function is to act as pointers to specific individuals. "Joseph Green" is not a "translation" of "Giuseppe Verdi"; it's a signpost pointing to an entirely different person.[*]

Why do you need the names at all? Do you have multiple siblings that you need to differentiate? If it's just you and your brother, I would think "Mo Dheartháir" and "Mo Dheirfiúr" by themselves would be sufficient.

BTW, the Irish for "Christmas carol" is "carúl (na) Nollag", but as far as I know, "Carúl" is never used as a given name in Irish (although "Nollaig"--note spelling!--is).

[*] Of course, this must sound a bit odd coming from a person who is not know as "Domhnall Liaim Liaim" anywhere on the planet outside of this board. But this isn't my name any more than any of the other aliases I've ever gone by online such as "Tataduhende", "Muckefuck" or "Merzdada".

I almost agree with DLL.

Names have meaning, but they rarely survive translation.

Aon + g(h)us -> First Choice. A right fool I'd look englishing my name that way.

Shíl mé riamh go dtáinig sé ó óen + gus (= force, vigour, gumption, etc.) Ach níl mé cinnte agus ní ormsa atá an t-ainm!

Is iomaí léamh air.

Ach is mé an mac is sine.

Names have etymologies, but that's not the same thing. When someone bases an argument on the etymological meaning of a word, we call this an instance of the "etymological fallacy". For instance, a claim like "'radical' simply means 'grasping by the root'" (advanced by a anti-establishment speaker on campus last year) is, at best, disingenuous, because there's nothing "simple" about the meaning of the word radical in modern English. The fact that the ultimate source of the word is Latin radix "root" is an interesting bit of trivia, but doesn't have a thing to do with its contemporary meaning.

So it is with names. It's interesting to know the source of your name, Aonghus, but that is of no importance of all when it comes to parsing a sentence that contains it. I can't say, "Well, Learning Irish wouldn't be my Aonghus, but it's a fine textbook all the same" and expect anyone to interpret it according to the explanation you just gave. In ordinary speech, such a sentence could only be understood metaphorically, i.e. I stand in the same relationship to this book as I do to an identifiable person called Aonghus (or as might to Aonghus, or as someone else does to Aonghus). The meaningfulness of the expression derives from knowing that Aonghus is a pointer to an individual, nothing more.

Tuigim.

What I meant was that sometimes the etymology can be helpful to establishing a sensible equivalent.

For example: Mac Gabhann = Smith

Thank you for all your help - we will do it without the names. I really appreciate it!

quote:

"I mean I was named at christmas after "christmas carol"

I don't think the two words are related.

Carol is borrowed from Old French carole, which is derived from Latin choraula: one that accompanies a choral dance on a flute.

But the name Carole is derived from old Germanic "karl" (man,serf), which bore the Latinized name Carolus magnus (Charlemagne) for the great first emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. From his name developped many names in English, especially Charles, but also female names like Caroline and Carol.

PS: But the similitude to carol gives the name a nice sound!

Because it's for a tattoo:
I'd use dots instead of the letter h (to reduce pain)
And Cló Gaelach looks better:

mo ḋeaɼṫáiɼ and mo ḋeiɼfiúɼ

Laɼſ

It's a good idea only if you can find someone who knows how to render the script correctly. Maybe it's all the awful kanji tattoos I've been subjected to, but I'd rather see a common script rendered attractively than an uncommon one done badly.