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BRN (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 01:26 am: |
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Can you use cá in this fashion?: Tchifidh me an situation fos nach bhfuil aon duine ar bith ina n-abhar sagairt Sorry for lack of fada ; on work PC meaning: "I see a situation yet where there is not one person going for the priesthood" |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6981 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 05:28 am: |
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Nach mbeidh, is dóigh liom. Seachas sin, is dóigh liom go bhfuil d'abairt gramadúil (ach míchruinn!) |
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Bearn
Member Username: Bearn
Post Number: 499 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 08:16 am: |
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Sorry, I meant can you translate 'where' in the same way in native Irish using cá/where as a conjunction le díol
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6984 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 08:25 am: |
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Ní thuigim. Tabhair sampla. Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil gá le cónasc sa chás seo. |
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Abigail
Member Username: Abigail
Post Number: 738 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 08:26 am: |
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No, not really. You can say things like: D'fhiafraigh sí díom cá raibh mé ag dul. Níl a fhios agam cá bhfuil sé. but that's using it as an interrogative particle, it seems to me. You wouldn't use cá to translate, say, "the town where I grew up" or "stay right where you are." Mostly you need relative clauses for that. Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!
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Lars
Member Username: Lars
Post Number: 232 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 10:37 am: |
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I see = tchí mé, feicim (not future tense tchífidh) a situation = staid, cor (no article an = the) Regarding "where": I'd use "ina" here (= in which) or "a ... inti" in affirmative sentences. In negative sentences: nach ... inti Tchí mé staid nach mbeidh duine ar bith sa tsagartacht inti. Or perhaps rather no relative clause but a simple phrase with 'bheith' (to be): Tchí mé staid gan aon duine a bheith sa tsagartacht fós. "cá" is only interrogative or indirect interrogative as in Abigail's examples. Lars (Message edited by Lars on April 23, 2008) |
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Trigger
Member Username: Trigger
Post Number: 78 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 12:17 pm: |
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The present tense would be ''Tchím''. Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2370 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 04:49 pm: |
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Trigger is right, I don't think people would say "tchí mé", except maybe in some dead dialect of the 6 counties. At least I think nobody says it in Donegal. quote:Or perhaps rather no relative clause but a simple phrase with 'bheith' (to be): Tchí mé staid gan aon duine a bheith sa tsagartacht fós. It's odd to use "fós" in the same sentence as "tchí". That verb is typically Ulster, while "fós" is typically Munster and is used in Connemara too. It is "go fóill" in Donegal. Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Trigger
Member Username: Trigger
Post Number: 81 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 05:08 pm: |
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The problem with this is that its mixing up dialect you are using words that is Donegal, and some words that isn't. Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6994 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 05:48 am: |
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Why is that a problem, if your aim is to use the words you feel best suit? Certainly, if your aim is to accurately reproduce a dialect, then it is an error. But if a natural standard is to emerge, then is will be by a natural blending of dailects, as happened everywhere else. That is a solution, not a problem! |
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Abigail
Member Username: Abigail
Post Number: 743 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 06:01 am: |
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Nach mairg don fhiosrach! Cuir ceist gramadaí agus déarfar leat "tabhair sampla, maith an fear." Tabhair sampla agus stróicfear as a chéile é i dtaobh mionphointí eile nach raibh i gceist agat i dtús báire. Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2375 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 08:11 am: |
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quote:But if a natural standard is to emerge, then is will be by a natural blending of dailects, as happened everywhere else. Everywhere, really? Where? Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6998 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 10:11 am: |
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Béarla, Fraincis, Gearmáinis,.... Cumasc atá iontu ar fad. Cinnte, bhí canúint amháin in uachtar ar deireadh, ach is de bharr cuimilt canúintí a gineadh an chanúint sin. |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 3698 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 11:54 am: |
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Bhí lámh in uachtar ag canúint réigiúnach amháin i dtús báire, de réir mar a thuigim é. Tá sé seo an-soiléir i gcás na Fraincise. Le français de Paris a bualadh anuas ar an gcuid eile den tír d'aon ghnó, trí na scoileanna, etc. Dúirt cara liom a tógadh le Polainnis go ndeachaigh na canúintí ansin i léig tar éis an Dara Cogadh Domhanda, go raibh "meascadh" ann, ach níl a fhios agam dáiríre céard a tharla ansin. quote:Béarla, Fraincis, Gearmáinis,.... Maidir leis na teangacha seo a chumasc, chuala mé é seo ó fhear ar an raidió inné: " ... for those über-bloggers, the goal, the raison d'être, is... "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 3702 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 12:37 pm: |
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typo: Bhí lámh in uachtar... recte: Bhí an lámh in uachtar... "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 3703 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 12:45 pm: |
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quote:Why is that a problem, if your aim is to use the words you feel best suit? Aontaím le hAonghus go huile is go hiomlán. Bainim úsáid as focail as gach cearn den tír, á meascadh le chéile gan náire. Déanaim an rud céanna i mo chuid Béarla. Tá focail agus cora cainte in úsáid agam, agus ag a lán againn abhus anseo, nach raibh againn fiche nó tríocha bliain ó shin, a fuair muid ó na Brits. "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 7000 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 04:20 pm: |
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Bhí na méid a scríobh mé bunaithe ar leabhar a léigh mé faoin mBéarla. Lorgóidh mé na sonraí. Ach rianaíodh ann sonraí canúintí faoi leith ar an mBéarla caighdeánach i Sasana. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2378 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 04:34 pm: |
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quote:Béarla, Fraincis, Gearmáinis,.... Cumasc atá iontu ar fad. Cinnte, bhí canúint amháin in uachtar ar deireadh, ach is de bharr cuimilt canúintí a gineadh an chanúint sin. Ní dóigh liom é. Níl mórán cumaisc chanúintí sa Fhraincis, go simplí siocair nach n-úsáidtear na canúintí níos mó, nó chóir a bheith. Sin an rud a fhaghthar giota beag, meascadh beag (cupla focal, agus blas) eadar seanchanúint agus an Fhraincis chaighdeánach, ach seachas sin, cha mheasctar teangaidh na Briotáine Oirthearaí (sin an Gallo) le teangaidh dheisceart na Fraince nó le cionn an tuaiscirt. Níl mórán eolais agam ar an Ghearmáinis agus ar a canúintí, ach níl mé cinnte go measctar an Ghearmáinis oifigiúil, canúint Köln, canúint Bherlin, cionn Hannover agus cionn an Schleswig Holstein le chéile. Maidir leis a’ Bhéarla, ’gcualaidh tú daoiní a’ meascadh Béarla na hIndia le cionn na hAstráile agus le cionn Bhéal Feirste nó Oileáin Leódhais ? Sin an t-aon mheascadh a thug mé fá dear meascadh eadar seanchanúint cheantair áirid agus an teangaidh oifigiúil. Rud céarna leis a’ Ghaeilg: ar an chuid is mó, cluintear cupla focal nó cor cainte as canúint eile, ó am go chéile, i gcanúint chainteoir dhúchais, sin a’ méid. Thig leat éisteacht le RnaG agus na cainteoirí Gaeltachta, cha gcluineann tú mórán tionchar as canúint eile ina chanúint féin, ach b’fhéidir focal nó dhó. quote:Maidir leis na teangacha seo a chumasc, chuala mé é seo ó fhear ar an raidió inné: "... for those über-bloggers, the goal, the raison d'être, is... rud difriúil ar fad atá ann, sin focla iasachta as teangthacha eile. Ní hionann saol na gcanúintí agus saol na dteangthach oifigiúla eadarnáisiúnta. quote:Aontaím le hAonghus go huile is go hiomlán. Bainim úsáid as focail as gach cearn den tír, á meascadh le chéile gan náire. Déanaim an rud céanna i mo chuid Béarla. Tá focail agus cora cainte in úsáid agam, agus ag a lán againn abhus anseo, nach raibh againn fiche nó tríocha bliain ó shin, a fuair muid ó na Brits. Thig leat do rogha rud a dhéanamh, ach ná habair gur chóir do achan duine an rud céarna a dhéanamh. Dá ndéanfadh achan duine ’n rud céarna, ní dóigh liom go mbeadh sé maith fá choinne na teangtha (teangthacha beaga atá i gceist agam anseo), nó dá meascadh na canúintí uilig, chaillfí cuid mhór dona saidhbhreas. Bheadh barraíocht cor cainte agus barraíocht focal ar chomhbhrí, agus is cinnte go bhfuígfí cuid mhaith acu. Dá meascfaí na canúintí le chéile, labharfaí ar an dóigh chéarna in achan áit, agus dá dheasca sin chaillfí an éagsúlacht ar fad. Ach cá bith, níl sé nádúrtha aigen chine dhaonna labhairt ar an dóigh chéarna in achan áit (sin a’ fáth a bhfuil canúintí in achan teangaidh, ins na teangthacha nach bhfuil á labhairt ach i gceantracha beaga baoideacha féin), agus in ainneoin a ndéanfaí, beidh canúintí ann i gcónaí. Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 7005 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 10:40 am: |
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Ní raibh mé ag rá gur meascán canúintí ANOIS iad Béarla, Fraincis, Gearmáinis; ach go raibh tionchar ag níos mó ná canúint amháin orthu agus iad ag teacht chun tosaigh mar caighdeán. Go hiondúil is canúint an ardchathair atá i gceist - agus is cumasc pobail isea pobal aon ardchathair, agus cumasc canúintí dá reir a gcanúint. |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 3714 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 01:40 pm: |
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quote:Go hiondúil is canúint an ardchathair atá i gceist Séard atá i gceist inniu ná dhá "áit" (feictear dom): (1) an ardchathair í féin (BÁC sa chás) seo, agus (2) na meáin chumarsáide, is cuma cá bhfuil siad suite, toisc go bhfuil fáil orthu chuile áit anois a bhuí leis an idirlíon: raidió, teilifís, na nuachtáin -- móide blaganna, cláir phlé, etc. etc. Tagann daoine le chéile sa dá áit seo agus foghlaimíonn siad focail, cora cainte, etc. óna chéile. Tá sé seo le feiceáil anois díreach. Is annamh iad na purists atá ábalta a gcanúint a chosaint ó na "hionróirí", ó chanúintí eile agus ón teanga mhór máguaird. (Message edited by dennis on April 25, 2008) "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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