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James_murphy
Member Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 131 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 06:13 am: |
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I have an old book called "Aids to the Pronunciation of Irish" and came across the following: "Iodh and Iogh = í + "o" glide (Connaught and Munster)". Some of the examples given are: Iodhna, tiodhlaic, iodhbairt, dioghaltas, dioghla, fiodh etc. Does this mean that these combinations of letters are not pronounced /i:/ in Ulster? Séamus Ó Murchadha Caighdeán mo Thóin!
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BRN (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 06:26 am: |
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ogh and odh often long o, i would have thought |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6966 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 06:26 am: |
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James, rud eile ar fad: ba cheart duit camóg a chuir i do thag Caighdeán , mo Thóin! Nó an ag caint faoi do thóin atáir? Níl freagra do cheiste agam, ach táim cinnte go mbeidh Lughaidh thart ar ball. |
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Bearn
Member Username: Bearn
Post Number: 497 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 08:36 am: |
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Historically a broad gh stood there, then a long unrounded o in Ulster. For up to the minute info on particular places, there is only one man le díol
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Abigail
Member Username: Abigail
Post Number: 733 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 11:31 am: |
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Tá an focal "tón" ann chomh maith (agus "tóin" mar ghinideach air.) Seans gurb 'in a bhí i gceist ag mo dhuine! An ag foghlaim na Siníse atá tú, a Shéamais? Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6972 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 04:12 pm: |
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Ón bhfoclóir beag: Ní bhfuaireamar tón, ach seo tónacán focal ata gar dó san fhoclóir. tónacán [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh] únfairt, útamáil thart. Sin atá ar bun againn, James, ná bac linn! |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2367 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 02:02 am: |
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quote:"Iodh and Iogh = í + "o" glide (Connaught and Munster)". Some of the examples given are: Iodhna, tiodhlaic, iodhbairt, dioghaltas, dioghla, fiodh etc. Does this mean that these combinations of letters are not pronounced /i:/ in Ulster? I don't know, I think I've never heard these words so far and they are not in the modern spelling. However I'd say that "tiolaic" is pronounced [ˈtʲʌlˠɪkʲ]. By the way, I don't think there would be a long i in these words. Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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James_murphy
Member Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 132 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 03:48 am: |
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quote:Caighdeán , mo Thóin! Nó an ag caint faoi do thóin atáir? Bhí a fhios agam nár cheart é ach ní raibh ann ach aistriughadh cora cainnte Bhéarla ar aon chor. Glacfad le do chomhairle. quote:By the way, I don't think there would be a long i in these words. Unless I'm mistaken they're all (apart from 'fiodh')spelt with a long 'i' in the current spelling - 'tíolaic', 'íobairt', 'díoltas' etc - so I always had the impression that that was the universal pronunciation. P.S. I genuinely didn't bring this up to point out yet another fault with the caighdeán orthography but there it is. Séamus Ó Murchadha Caighdeán mo Thóin!
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2368 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 12:17 pm: |
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My mistake! sorry, when I saw "tiodhlaic" I thought of "tionlaic", and it has a short i. It *is* tíolaic (to bestow/to dedicate) with a long i. I have never heard that word in Ulster nor never seen it mentioned in a book about Ulster Irish. According to its spelling, it may be [ˈtʲiːlˠɪkʲ], but it's just a guess. Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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James_murphy
Member Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 133 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 06:36 am: |
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I know "The Fews" in Armagh is an Anglicised form of "an Fiodh" (or perhaps a plural form) so perhaps, in some cases at least, these letter combinations are pronounced /u:/ in Ulster. Séamus Ó Murchadha Caighdeán, mo Thóin!
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2372 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 07:41 am: |
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Maybe as bíodh is pronounced [ˈb͍iːu] in Ulster. Maybe the original pronunciation if "fiodh" was [ˈɸ ͍ɪw] in Ulster Irish. Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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