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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (March- April) » Archive through April 24, 2008 » Ulster Pronunciation « Previous Next »

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James_murphy
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Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 131
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 06:13 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have an old book called "Aids to the Pronunciation of Irish" and came across the following:
"Iodh and Iogh = í + "o" glide (Connaught and Munster)".
Some of the examples given are: Iodhna, tiodhlaic, iodhbairt, dioghaltas, dioghla, fiodh etc.

Does this mean that these combinations of letters are not pronounced /i:/ in Ulster?

Séamus Ó Murchadha

Caighdeán mo Thóin!

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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 06:26 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ogh and odh often long o, i would have thought

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6966
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 06:26 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

James, rud eile ar fad: ba cheart duit camóg a chuir i do thag

Caighdeán , mo Thóin!

Nó an ag caint faoi do thóin atáir?

Níl freagra do cheiste agam, ach táim cinnte go mbeidh Lughaidh thart ar ball.

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 497
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 08:36 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Historically a broad gh stood there, then a long unrounded o in Ulster. For up to the minute info on particular places, there is only one man

le díol

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 733
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá an focal "tón" ann chomh maith (agus "tóin" mar ghinideach air.) Seans gurb 'in a bhí i gceist ag mo dhuine!

An ag foghlaim na Siníse atá tú, a Shéamais?

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6972
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 04:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ón bhfoclóir beag:

Ní bhfuaireamar
tón,
ach seo tónacán focal ata gar dó san fhoclóir.
tónacán [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
únfairt, útamáil thart.

Sin atá ar bun againn, James, ná bac linn!

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2367
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 02:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

"Iodh and Iogh = í + "o" glide (Connaught and Munster)".
Some of the examples given are: Iodhna, tiodhlaic, iodhbairt, dioghaltas, dioghla, fiodh etc.

Does this mean that these combinations of letters are not pronounced /i:/ in Ulster?



I don't know, I think I've never heard these words so far and they are not in the modern spelling. However I'd say that "tiolaic" is pronounced [ˈtʲʌlˠɪkʲ].

By the way, I don't think there would be a long i in these words.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 132
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 03:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Caighdeán , mo Thóin!

Nó an ag caint faoi do thóin atáir?


Bhí a fhios agam nár cheart é ach ní raibh ann ach aistriughadh cora cainnte Bhéarla ar aon chor. Glacfad le do chomhairle.

quote:

By the way, I don't think there would be a long i in these words.


Unless I'm mistaken they're all (apart from 'fiodh')spelt with a long 'i' in the current spelling - 'tíolaic', 'íobairt', 'díoltas' etc - so I always had the impression that that was the universal pronunciation.

P.S. I genuinely didn't bring this up to point out yet another fault with the caighdeán orthography but there it is.

Séamus Ó Murchadha

Caighdeán mo Thóin!

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2368
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 12:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My mistake! sorry, when I saw "tiodhlaic" I thought of "tionlaic", and it has a short i. It *is* tíolaic (to bestow/to dedicate) with a long i. I have never heard that word in Ulster nor never seen it mentioned in a book about Ulster Irish. According to its spelling, it may be [ˈtʲiːlˠɪkʲ], but it's just a guess.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 133
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 06:36 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I know "The Fews" in Armagh is an Anglicised form of "an Fiodh" (or perhaps a plural form) so perhaps, in some cases at least, these letter combinations are pronounced /u:/ in Ulster.

Séamus Ó Murchadha

Caighdeán, mo Thóin!

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2372
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 07:41 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Maybe as bíodh is pronounced [ˈb͍iːu] in Ulster. Maybe the original pronunciation if "fiodh" was [ˈɸ ͍ɪw] in Ulster Irish.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/



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