Ní raibh mion bhriseadh síos ar fáil ón Daonáireamh a tógadh sa bhliain 2006, maidir le úsáid na Gaeilge sna ceantair éagsúla Gaeltachta, go dtí anois.

Chuir CSO na figiúirí ar fáil le gairid don léachtóir Matamaitice ón GMIT, Donncha Ó hÉallaithe agus rinne sé anailís orthu do Nuacht TG4. San alt seo tugann sé tuairisc chuimsitheach ar thoradh na h-anailíse.

http://anghaeltacht.net/ctg/080323foinse.html

Eoin

Áit bhocht...

Can anyone provide a really brief summary of the article? I think I get the gist of it and I'm certainly familiar with the sociolingustic study which proposes that the Gaeltacht should be broken down into categories A,B and C.

Is it saying that the current gaeltacht will be cut in half or that it *should* be?

Maybe they should only include the areas coloured pink and green in the maps.

He's saying that if the recommendations of the study were followed (i.e. categories A, B, C retained, everything else eliminated) the resulting Gaeltacht would have about half the population of the current one.

The black areas on the maps are what would be eliminated. Among other things, these include:
- The Uíbh Ráthach Gaeltacht in its entirety
- An Daingean
- Most of the Mayo Gaeltacht (from 11,000 to 2000)
- The Gaeltacht estates in Galway city (14,000 people)

The smaller Gaeltachts - Meath, Waterford - would lose a little bit but nothing drastic.

Go raibh maith 'ad. Galway would stand to lose the most. Almost 29,000!

Can you translate these?

Líon Teaghlaigh
a Thuill an
Deontas Iomlán
SLG (2006/07)

%Teaghlaigh a
Thuill an Deontas
Iomlán. (2006/07)

Is the first one in relation to households where the entire family is Irish speaking and who received the full SLG grant in 06/07?

I hope not because the total for Dún Caoin is only 11.

"Number (resp. %) of households earning the full SLG grant in 2006/07."

As it stands Galway would still edge out Donegal as the largest Gaeltacht, but only just.

Still confused.

"Number (resp. %) of households earning the full SLG grant in 2006/07."

= Líon Teaghlaigh
a Thuill an
Deontas Iomlán
SLG (2006/07) ????


I thought that was the second.

Sticking with the Dún Chaoin example.

Daonra (2006): 159. I assume that's total population.

% Cainteoirí Laethiúla Gaeilge: 72 (% of population who are Irish speakers?)

Líon Teaghlaigh a Thuill an Deontas Iomlán SLG (2006/07):
11

% Teaghlaigh a Thuill an Deontas Iomlán. (2006/07):
79

So is it saying of the eligible SLG households, 79% received the full grant? And that number was only 11 households? Even for a population of a mere 159, that seems low.

Ok, I think I get it now. Yikes, only 1408 SLG households in category A.

Have you ever heard of 'counting your blessings'?

I'm not saying there are no problems - but your relentless air of "alarm", "concern" and general downerism is starting to grate.

Huh? Did I start this thread? I was commenting on the figures.

I have a deep interest in the state of the Gaeltacht. Without it, Irish becomes a two-bit language, in my opinion. The numbers are what they are. My views don't change that. I'd rather be a realist than a head-in-the-sand thin-skinned, naive optimist. Which plenty of leaners are.

*learners

Some people like posting about grammar. Some like talking about trad music. Some like nitpicking about phonetics and dialects...or tattoos. It's all good. There's room for it all.

So who are you to accuse me of being alarmist or a downer simply because I'm interested in the sociolinguistic state of the Gaeltacht and its impact on the vitality of the language!? It's something that will effect Irish more than grammar or Des Bishop ever could. I'm merely discussing the figures as they are.

Danny2007,
Welcome to the site!
If you look back over the older posts you will notice a tendency for the purists to avoid too much serious discussion about the state of the language.
It usually starts with someone (even if sympathetic to the language) asking about the health of the language. There may be follow up posts in Irish and the subject fades away. If there are comments in English it can turn ugly when the questioner is demonized and basically treated as a sort of traitor/troll.
We all have our own reasons to learn Irish, some because of ethnicity, others for reasons of their own,
but I see no problem with a potential learner wondering if the time (in a busy world) and money is worth it.
The Irish language revival movement is often its own worst enemy. Would you want to talk to them in any language anyway?

Yunno, I have been disbelieved in 2 boards for what I saw last summer when I visited, usually by people either in Dublin or abroad, about what I saw.

Anyway, I think that it is a grave problem, as the numbers need to be growing, not holding steady.

Nobody really. Just a fellow learner with (apparently) an entirely different set of hobbyhorses to ride.

Realism is one thing, and I can certainly understand sociolinguistics being a passion of yours. It's not the fact you want to talk about it so much that bothers me - it's the relentlessly negative tone. Pretty much any report on the Gaeltacht is a mixed bag, with some bad news, some good news but few real surprises. You habitually single out the worst numbers to discuss, and ignore the positive signs. No call for action, personal or administrative; just hand-wringing over the bad numbers and silence over the good ones. The result tends to look more like "pessimism" than "realism."

But maybe if we average it out with the effusions of one or two bubbly-headed optimistic learners...

If we really are facing the demise of the Irish language, well, call me a mad Gaeilgeoir but I prefer to face it in Irish rather than English.

If we're not, so much the better. I'd still rather discuss the state of the language in Irish. (For that matter I'd also rather discuss my laundry, my taxes and my grocery shopping in Irish.)

Haigh a Aibigéal, I'm glad someone finally mentioned it nice to see you on here.

(Mise Benjamin ar IGT)

"Pretty much any report on the Gaeltacht is a mixed bag, with some bad news, some good news but few real surprises. You habitually single out the worst numbers to discuss, and ignore the positive signs."

Alright, let's expand on this. What's the good news? What are the positive signs? Maybe I missed them. That's certainly possible. My threads mirror the findings of the Sociolinguistic study. I feel there are more positives in the Galltacht than the Gaeltacht, currently.

What jumps out at me:

- 18% of Gaeltacht residents live in areas where Irish is the predominant language. This constitutes 0.4% of the total population in the Republic. (17,200/4,300,000). Keep in mind that not all 17,200 people are even Irish speakers.

If we are less strict about it, it's 1%.
(Areas A+B+C) = 43,850 / 4,300,000

- I took a close look at the 2006 census, and even in the strongest areas like Gort a' Choirce and Leitir Móir, daily speakers (excluding those who claim to speak it ONLY in school) made up 64-67% of the population.

- Over half of Gaeltacht residents live in areas where Irish is effectively dead as a community language. The same could be said for Areas C (where the bulk of speakers are schoolkids...and some Areas in cat. B)

- Only 24% of young people in Category A areas claimed they used Irish primarily to communicate with their peers. (Study)

- Evidence that a significant percentage of young native speakers exhibit language skills less developed and less broad than one would expect from a typical native speaker (of any language) (detailed in Study)'

- Only 2,177 Gaeltacht households received the SLG Grant 06/07 (I noticed that the home of Oideas Gael, Gleann Cholm Cille, had a grand total of 4 households that received the SLG grant.)

"If the productive use of Irish cannot be established on a broader basis than within certain family and limited neighbourhood networks, and if the Gaeltacht education system is unable to establish an Irish language-centred socialisation process within its schools, this study will have unfortunately documented the dynamics presaging the final stages in the lifecycle of the Gaeltacht as an Irish-speaking community. The unambiguous conclusion of the survey on young people is that, without a major change to language-use patterns, Irish is unlikely to remain the predominant community and family language in those areas with the most widespread and inclusive Irish-speaking networks (i.e. Category A Gaeltacht districts) for more than another fifteen to twenty years. By the time the young people surveyed for this study become parents, the networks of active speakers will not be widespread enough to reproduce another generation of Irish speakers unless a supportive sociolinguistic environment can be established in the interim."

http://www.pobail.ie/en/AnGhaeltacht/LinguisticStudyoftheGaeltacht/file,8677,en. pdf


Positives:

- Emigration brought under control.
- Consistently positive views of Irish and the Gaeltacht in the surveys conducted in the NUI study
- Increased visibilty of Irish across the country. Less taboo to speak it in public. The growth of Irish blogs, forums, radio stations...

Danny, why do you keep on talking about the same thing?

Well, here's something that jumped out at me. Look at the daily-outside-the-education-system numbers for the Waterford Gaeltacht. Over 50% of the 10-14-year-olds there speak Irish. That's more than any other age group - more than their parents, more than their grandparents. The same phenomenon (though not as pronounced) can be seen in the Cork and Meath Gaeltachts as well. Kids speaking more Irish than their parents - isn't that a good sign?

I don't know what caused it, but I'd sure like to. And I wonder why you don't see the same thing in stronger Gaeltachts like Galway. Might the same trend be present there too, but its effects masked by the 29,000 speakers in non-A/B/C areas? How does the age breakdown change if you restrict it to the A/B/C areas?

It's directly related to the thread Eoin created. Grow up.

That *IS* good, yeah! I haven't been able to find an age breakdown for each Electoral Division in the gaeltacht. Just by county. How come it says Daily outside the education system only in some reports, but only "Daily" (in addition Daily inside education ssytem only, and daily ALSO OUTSIDE education system only).

Daily by itself is too vague.

Waterford County:

Total Irish speakers: 1,242

So for example, under 10-14 year olds...you've got 75 who claim they only speak it in school...and 79 who speak Irish also OUTSIDE the education system. Plus another 11 under "Daily" (whatever that means).

Amongst 5-9 year olds...88 inside school only...20 also outside...

15-19...50 inside school only...18 also outside.

That is quite a discrepancy indeed. But that 10-14 age group is a very good sign.

http://beyond2020.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=10417

Tá sé thar am againn an snáithe seo a thiontú ar an nGaeilge, a chairde. Má tá na socio-linguists in ann iad féin a chur in iúl sa teanga a bhfuil suim acu inti, maith go leor. Ní fiú éisteacht leo i mBéarla.

Yes, no, maybe.

Tá na huimhreacha leasmhar an bheag, tá athrú tomhaisthe i daonna aonaraigh...is féidir leo beagnach aon rud...

Níl na athruithe maith maith go leor...ar chor ar bith

Déanann an athbheochan coiscéim ar aghaidh amháin agus sé choiscéim ar ais. Tá, is feabhas é, ach ní dóthain é.

Being wanted is good, being needed is what's required.

Má níl Gaeilge IS GÁ chun saoil coitianta, éagfaidh sí. Is gá do Gaeilge rud éigin dian...

An bhfuil an "political will" ann é a déanamh? An féidir siad é a fháil? Níl a fhios agam, ach ní fhéachann sé dóchúil...

(Tá mé ag foglaim fós...maith dom má ní raibh ciall le gach abairt)

Everyone here is interested in different aspects of an Gaeilge, that is allright. There are often times when people talk about aspects of the language situation that I don't find particularly interesting at this juncture but I don't diss (talk crap about) on them or their interests even if I think things to that effect in my head. Ergo, hence, therefore, I see no reason why people are coming down on Danny and saying bad things about the fact that he is participating in a thread, which he didn't start by the way so you can't say he _always starts these threads. Its good to be optimistic about situations, it helps one to keep energized about learning and speaking an Gaeilge for instance. But, as a general rule, I find optimism in large doses to be tiresome, it grates on my fractious nerves. :) So one person's optimism and another person's just-the-facts attitudes round each other out. I'm happy to hear Abigail's news about young kids in Waterford, that is a good thing to be sure and your positive energy about it is great. But alarm at negative statistics isn't so unexpected and should be agknowledged as well.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Áthas orm gur spreag staidéar Dhonncha an méid seo díospóireachta.

Bhí roinnt mhaith ar RnaG agus TG4 leis. Bhí píosa faoi an tionchair a bheadh ar aththarringt teorannacha Gaeltacht na Gaillimhe i gGlór Chonamara. Tá sé le léamh ag:

http://anghaeltacht.net/ctg/gaillimh06/080321gc.htm

Tá ráiteas ó Michael Ring (TD FG) a foilsíodh i bhFoinse ar an leathanach anois (Cé nach bhfuil sé ar suíomh Fine Gael!) agus ráiteas ó Chonradh na Gaeilge. Táid ar aon ag moladh an coimisiún seo chun na teorannacha nua a aimsiú.

Bhí tuairisc i mBéarla san Independent atá le fáil ar:


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gaeltacht-revamp-could-cut-population-in -half-1325947.html


Ní doigh liom go raibh aon rud eile faoi sna meáin Bhéarla seachas RTÉ.

An rud is annamh....

Is there any numbers of Irish speakers in county Kildare? Kildare town to be more specific.

Very sobering article, although nothing new. What I really find shocking - it is the atrocious spellings of Gaeltacht localities in the article: Ma Nua (should be: Má Nua), Corcha Dhuibhne (should be: Corca Dhuibhne), Maigheo (should be: Maigh Eo), Tuar Mhic Chéidigh (sic!) (should be: Tuar Mhic Éadaigh) etc.