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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (January- February) » Archive through February 27, 2008 » Wearing of the green « Previous Next »

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Elena (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 01:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I need some help with the history of wearing of the Green. Between wearing the tri colors of Ireland's flag and just wearing the green.


Thanks!!

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 1296
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 11:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I don't think the trycolor has been around that long in comparison to St. Patrick's Day. So just wearing green is kind of established in everyone's mind and has been for some time. When I was a young girl I thought that wearing green and orange would demonstrate my knowledge of Irish history but I decided it just wasn't a good idea and never did it. I think orange is an asthetically unpleasant color anyway. This brings me to wonder when the trycolor flag was first used/introduced/conceived of? I suspect it is potentially earlier than I currently assume.

Beir bua agus beannacht

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1177
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 03:59 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My recollection is that it dates to the 19th century, with some of the earliest recorded mentionings dating from 1830.

Even up to 1916, the green flag with the gold harp (Leinster) seemed to be the main contender for a national flag.

However, prior to green, it seems the Irish national color was blue. I can't quite remember the reference at the moment, but I'm pretty sure I was researching Brian Boroimhe when I came across that tid-bit for the first time.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 07:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I agree, its not a good idea just to wear green and orange together as a statement about Irish history. The two colours clash without the white between them.

The Irish tricolour of Green White and Orange was first carried in public in Waterford city by the Young Irelanders in 1848. It is modelled on the tricolour of Revolutionary France whose ideals the Young Irelanders shared and it symbolises the aspiration to unity for the 'native' or Gaelic Irish [green] and the 'settler' or Anglo-Irish [orange] with peace [white] between them. It was one of several flags carried in subsequent Nationalist movements down the years until The Easter Rising of 1916.

It became the official flag of the Irish Free State in 1921 and remains the official flag of the Republic now known as Ireland.

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Raghnall O' Muirghis (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 08:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My aunt who lives in Meelick, County Clare, says the flag is green, white, and gold - not orange. Does anyone out there say the same?

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Seosamh Ó Bratach (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 09:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

According to leading vexillologists, flags that are subjected to a mixture of sunlight and salt air, especially as experienced on the west coast of Ireland, will tend to see certain colors transmuted into others. This may be the reason why your aunt sees gold instead of the original color orange. She may want to invest in a new flag.

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Rg_cuan
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Username: Rg_cuan

Post Number: 240
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 05:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm from the other coast and a lot of people here say Green, White and Gold too.

I believe the reason for this is that, before the tricolour, one of Ireland's main national flags was a green background and a gold harp, hence people saying Green, White and Gold instead of Green, White and Orange.

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Raghnall Ó Muirghis (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 10:13 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh míle maith agat a Rg_cuan. Tá an ceart ag mo aintín.

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 156
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 10:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post


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Éad (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 11:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I first heard "green, white, and gold" in Éire and I thought it was because people associated orange with the Orange order and oppression of Catholics. Anyway, that's why I started saying it and I doubt that I'm the only one who says it for that reason.

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 374
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 10:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's another question: when did green start to be associated with Ireland, as it is not the traditional color. As far as I know, the same or similar blue as to Scotland, maybe just a bit darker

le díol

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MaidhcÓG. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 07:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In heraldry, one of the meaning given for the color blue is of loyalty. For green - rebellion.

The changing of the Irish flag's colors from blue to green was a clear statement of Irish feelings toward the British crown and no doubt gave rise to the banning of the color green.

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Canuck
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Username: Canuck

Post Number: 66
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 10:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Very interesting with the dates. That means that Newfoundland's green white and pink predates the green white and orange from Ireland...

"The Native Flag - 1843
Pink, White, and Green
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The pink the Rose of England shows,
The green St. Patrick's emblem bright,
While in betweeen the spotless sheen
St. Andrew's Cross displays the white"


http://www.wordplay.com/newfoundland/intro.html

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1178
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 10:53 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I've found mention of the Irish tricolor from 1830.

And I agree with Éad - those who say (or started saying) Green, White and Gold most likely did so for the reason he gave and not because they actually saw gold.

Also trips off the tongue a bit easier.

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Domhnall
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Username: Domhnall

Post Number: 1348
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Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 02:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well it definitely did change from blue to green.

The "Starry Plough" of the Irish Citizen's Army is blue with white stars.
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ie-stpl.html

I think calling it "gold" instead of orange is a poltical thing.

Sinne Laochra Fáil or Sinne Fianna Fáil sorta question...

However i think what our flag symbolises is something very good and the Union Jack is a bit out dated..

A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 08:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Despite the incontestable wisdom of aunties and whatever our traditional colours may have been, Article 7 of Bunreacht na hÉireann / The Constitution of Ireland states: 'The national flag is the tricolour of green white and orange'.

Seanfhear

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Suaimhneas
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Username: Suaimhneas

Post Number: 384
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 12:34 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I was taught it as "green white and gold". There was never any political significance, but it just sounds a bit more poetic - and my ancestors were bards!

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Éad (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 12:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have read that the nickname "Emerald Isle" came from an emerald ring given by a pope to a king of England to symbolize the king's right to rule Ireland. I haven't been able to find such a reference lately. Does anybody know of such a thing?

Like many Americans, I associate green with the Irish landscape, and that's another possible origin. It's certainly more pleasant.

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Antóin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 07:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

'gold' is easier to rhymn in rebel songs.

"our heroes so bold"

"our martyrs of old"

"our dear country sold"

"his blood it ran cold"

"a sweet joint he rolled"

etc., etc.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1181
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 08:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Éad, I believe it comes from the color of the landscape.

Pope Adrien (I forget the number), the only english pope, did recognize the monarch of england's claim over Ireland provided he/she would collect the tithes for the Church in Rome etc - all sorts of requirements the monarchy of england wouldn't ever dream of actually doing - something those anglophiles who quote that decision seem to habitually leave out...

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Riona
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Username: Riona

Post Number: 1299
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is maith liom do shmaoineamh Antoin, loighciuil agus fointeach.

:)

Beir bua agus beannacht



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