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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (January- February) » Archive through January 26, 2008 » Study Aids « Previous Next »

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Cait (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 08:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have been thinking about saving up my money to buy myself a professional language learning program for my computer. I know there are several out there, but I wanted to know if anyone has ever used one and which one they would recommend.
I know of Rossetta Stone, and they are supposed to be top-of-the-line, but I know there are many that are sold over the internet only, and so on...
I'd be grateful for an honest opinion.
Go raibh maith agaibh.
Oíche mhaith.

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 346
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 10:14 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have Easy Reader http://www.irishforlife.com/ and I find it useful (tho it can interfere with Win Gleacht as each other's dialogue boxes cross-interrogate a bit). I'd like to work with the maker to map out the collocates and colligates of Irish (i measc, ar maidin, ag éirigh etc) which would extend it even further.

It allows you to click on a word and get the translation, even if the word is inflected for vocative, genitive or dative, singular or plural. It has sample sentences too, and you can record your own speech too. I don't use all of the features so I can't comment on them.


I hear Plimsleur is very good. It uses a prompted retrieval pattern style to keep concepts in mind.


Dictionary: WinGléacht http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=5020&osCsid= 53a0d3d6da62ea6bd66e117ad69b5999

This is an electronic form of the Ó Dónáill dictionary


Flashcards: http://www.paul-raedle.de/vtrain/home.htm


http://supermemo.com/ This is a Polish system some people swear by -I don't know it did not make sense to me when I tried it: http://supermemo.com/


A Reader: Getting Nancy Stenson's Irish Gaelic reader in conjunction with Ó Siadhail's Learning Irish might be a good idea (don't know URL). A good introductory Reader might be a good collaborative project for Daltaí people (I will do one someday when I'm better and know more about acquisition).


This is only for other languages but gives an idea of what Easy Reader is about: http://www.babylon.com/ an in browser translator


Don't know what this is like: http://www.mylanguageexchange.com/ Don't use the PalTalk (MyLanguageExchange tells you to use -I read it is malware but use rather Sykpe:


http://skype.com/intl/ko/ good if you can get others for chatting -maybe daltaí people will do yet


This is very interesting -I suggest reading it, despite it's annoying 'chummie' style: http://www.scribd.com/doc/461994/How-To-Learn-Any-Language-Quickly-Easily-Inexpe nsively-

The memory technique is pure gold -I use it to memorise Korean and Russian words (English and those both are what I hear most of the time) and usually I need only hear the word once to memorize it. Last night in 60 seconds before I went out the door to meet someone, I memorized a page of Irish words from a phrase book. No practice, just recall. I have everyone of them. Phrase books have words by theme, and this makes it even easier.

It's mad and that is why I say read the link.

le díol

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 353
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 11:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

This program is good too: http://www.nualeargais.ie/seansEile/index.php

It allows you to focus on a particular area and repeatedly go over it

le díol

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 670
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 08:53 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cé thú féin ar Skype, a BhRN? Mise 'abigail.mitchell'.

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 354
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 08:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Nílim ag úsáid Skype go fóill mar tá cúpla faidhbe i mo riomhaire. Nuair a bheidh sí cóirthe, déanfaidh mé an glaoch!

le díol

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 359
Registered: 09-2006


Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 08:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Regarding "How to Learn Any Language" above, it employs Harry Lorayne's mnemonic techniques and, as Bearn mentions, they're very crazy -- which is precisely why they work. I've been using these memory techniques for years now and I only wish I came across the book sooner than I did. I stumbled across it as a senior in college and I honestly think I could have added three or four tenths of a point to my GPA if I'd used these techniques from day one.

Basically it's memorization by association using the most absurd, asinine, over-the-top imagery you can come up with, the theory being that the mind recalls what is truly out of the ordinary. As ridiculous as the examples are, they really do work. For those of us not gifted with photographic memory, this system is a life-saver!

It begins on p. 52 of the link Bearn provided:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/461994/How-To-Learn-Any-Language-Quickly-Easily-Inexpe nsively-

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Cait (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 09:22 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is Nualeargais.com maith liom é. Tá stór focal tábhachtach liom. Go raibh maith agat, a Bhearn. Tá Skype smaoineamh maith freisin. Go raibh maith agat, a hAbigail.

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Cait (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 09:29 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

(Edit) I'm am enjoying "How to Learn Any Language". I'm going to read the whole thing and possibly print it out just to have a copy handy. (I'm a huge text collector--books, magazines, journals...) Go raibh maith agat, a Bhearn for that and thanks for the commentary about it, A Dhomhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh. That does increase my hope that it will be very helpful.
Slán.

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 355
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 07:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd like to know what ways it can be used best. That page I memorised, I still can recall all of the words (easily) -I wonder what is the limit alothgether. I did make a list of body parts at a depth of over 100 words, so I am going to use the technique on them, once I figure any passive memory from writing them has diminsihed.

I have been passivly recognising proverbs too, and now know a few hundred, and so was pleasenlty surprised to hear one on RnaG and knew it instantly, and have been able to recall a few. Once I am comfortable with all of them, I will then start to prompt myself to speak them. I can do so for a number (especially the chomh X le Y pattern ones).

Anyway, a ray of hope -we have been blessed!

le díol

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Curt
Member
Username: Curt

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Disclaimer: I haven't seen the Irish Rosetta Stone, and my thoughts are based on trying out the Dutch one a few years ago...

I'd be very cautious about Rosetta Stone. They seemed to use a cookie-cutter approach to teaching all languages, even though what's very difficult in one language may be a non-issue in another. Also, since the same images were used for different languages, there was no cultural context at all.

There's a more in-depth review (of Rosetta Stone for Russian, version 2) at
http://www-writing.berkeley.edu/chorus/call/reviews/rosetta_russian/index.html

.. don't know if newer versions are any better.

I tell my students (I teach Russian) that RS is OK as an occasional supplement, as long as they understand it's no substitute for a good course with a good textbook.

-Curt

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 360
Registered: 09-2006


Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 02:28 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Curt - I'm relatively certain that there is no Rosetta Stone software for Irish.

Bearn - You said, "I'd like to know what ways it can be used best. That page I memorised, I still can recall all of the words (easily) -I wonder what is the limit alothgether."

My take? As regards nouns, I'd say you'd need to make sure that you incorporate content in your mental image that will indicate the gender of the noun and its plural(s); however much you think needs to be memorized by heart. Then, based on that memorized image, go through a drill with yourself: "(A) Noun, The Noun, (the) Nouns, My Noun, Our Noun, Of the Noun, Of the Nouns," etc., to account for mutations, prefixes, plurals, yadda yadda. This seems like a lot of work but it's nothing compared to trying to just bludgeon it in.

For verbs, I guess explicit reference would need to be made to the verbal noun in addition to the root, etc. Others more advanced would have to advise whether there are other aspects that brook memorizing at the get-go.

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Cait (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 11:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Dhomhnall, sinn Rossetta Stone i Ghaeilge. I almost bought it a while back. :)

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Danny2007
Member
Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 07:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

So what are some scenarios for remembering Irish words based on Harry Lorayne's mnemonic techniques?

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 358
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 09:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Here's one for the body parts:

Hand:

méar(a) :finger(s) -one imagines horses (mares) streaming off ones hands instead of fingers. The mare is feminine, so that encoded gender.

Ordóg : thumb -Ord was a hammer in medieval times and óg is a feminine suffix so a small pink masons sledge ('little hammer').

Corrmhéar : index -corr is odd, so 'odd finger'; one can imagine pointing out an odd person

Méarfhada : long finger, so that is easy, but you can come up with many different ones here.

Méar Fáinne : Ring finger

Lúidín : little finger -a 'little lout' -I think it might be etymologically related


Skull: cloigeann -like a bell

Brain: intinn -like in for inside and tinn for sick, like a head cold in the skull, the brain been like a folded membrane of mucus

Croi(dhe) :heart -an Indian reservation or heart of the body

Corp : body -think other languages where corp means a collective and that is what the body is a corp of parts too


Clipe droma: spine -think of how the vertebrae 'clip' one into the other like in a Klingon weapon -I think that is a sort of spear in history too

Ráitín: ankle -think of a ratchet which can work to pivot on the foot

Glúin: knee(cap) -in the north, someone has been kneecapped and so they had to 'glue-in' it back (syntax can be hampered by this!)

Cuas na láirge : Pelvis -Think of water flowing into the pelvis form the thigh, as it is the cove (cuas) of the thigh


As for verbs -I'll try one, though it might not be so effective!



Beir -catch

Habitual -analytical pronouns; root: beir
Beir sounds like 'bed' so many English speakers, so one can imagine a bed where the person (tú, sibh etc are around the bed as seperate entites (beireann sibh)) catching hold of the bed but the synthetic ones (me and us -beirim and beirimid) are in bed together holding the covers for fear of losing the duvet and becoming cold (like the historical 'tension' between synthetic and analytic.) The free-verb is synthetic so is the duvet seem contracting itself -no agent.



Past -analytical; root: rug

This time a rug is been grabbed onto in some historical period (like Persian times) by all the persons -for dialects with rugamar -all persons are sitting on the rug and grabbing at once. The saorbhriathar is seen as the carpet self contracting and becoming a magic carpet.



Future -analytical; root béar

Imagine a bear with berries (béarfaidh ~bear-ee) spinning around it, or with berries having personality grabbing onto him-one is me, you him her etc. For dialects with Béarfaimid we could all be eaten by the bear and go down to his belly. If you pronounce -mid as míd one can imagine berry mead been drunk.

Saorb -béarfar -bear far away and someone invisible grabbing hi and annoying him



Used to -Synthetic; root: beir; lenition

Bed again, but made of wax and melted a little (or time phased, or smudged if painted or made of cotton candy) to show lenition and a big v on duvet (for 'veir')

Mé: me in the the bed 'bheirinn' grabbing duvet

Tú: you as a 'hard chaw' (tough guy) in the bed 'bheirteá' grabbing duvet

Sé and sí: analytical so out side the bed on each side grabbing from outside

Muid: Mishing and mashing potatoes by grabbing them all the persons in the bed. (Reflexively might be best if only the synthetic persons appear in the bed)

Sibh: Have other peoples having to shout (as they are far away) to 'ye'

Said: The synthetic persons going 'Jeesh' those critters in the bed again -'bheiridís'

Free: a little home 'tigh' or houses 'tí' are woven into the duvent and have a life of their own with people and things moving between them.


That gives an idea of how to use it

le díol



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