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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (January- February) » Archive through January 10, 2008 » John O'Donohue « Previous Next »

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 659
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I came across a wonderful bit of verse entitled "Beannacht" by John O'Donohue. Part of it reads:

"When the canvas frays
In the currach of thought ...

I can't find "currach" in my dictionaries.

Anyone?

Is ait an mac an saol.

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déiridh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 01:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

curach

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 660
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Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 01:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Foclóir Scoile defines curach as currach. That brings me full circle.

Is ait an mac an saol.

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déiridh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 01:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"That brings me full circle"

pull harder on the other oar

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6707
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 03:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

it is a hide covered boat used on the west coast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currach

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 661
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Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 03:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat agus do theaglach, a chara agus go raibh na beannachtaí Nollaig agat an lá seo.

Is ait an mac an saol.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6709
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Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 04:14 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Agus agatsa agus ag do chúram.

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Seanfhear
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Username: Seanfhear

Post Number: 52
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 08:15 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

To be exact it was a hide-covered boat originally, but in more recent times the light timber frame is covered with canvas which is tarred. A somewhat differently shaped prow makes the Co Kerry 'naomhóg' distinct from the Co Galway 'curach'.

Muiris Ó Súilleabháin in 'Fiche Blian Ag Fás' tells how scared he was the first time he saw a naomhóg being carried upside down on the mens' heads down to the water, like a huge shiny black beetle.

Seanfhear

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déiridh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"To be exact it was a hide-covered boat originally..."
right, because a hide covering doesn't usually have much 'canvas fray'! wonder how you'd make the metaphor work w/ a hide covering?? a friend of mine built a trad. river coracle a number of years ago...slán sábháilte, ach mall.

a phádraig
if you've ever a chance to hear john o'd. he is a lovely speaker, whether in person or on tape. it's refreshing to see a conamara native so proud of his language and culture

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An Croí Ait (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 04:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

'Tis like asking the Japanese for sushi. The curach or currach is Irish. God knows why we added an extra r for an English version (to be different?).

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 662
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 05:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Although by no means exhaustive, I conducted a brief search and found no Irish translation of "Beannacht." And so to stretch my brain and to reinforce the adage that 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread,' I have made the following attempt.

I welcome any corrections or comments from the kind-hearted and patient.

GRMA

BEANNACHT

Ar an lá nuair
Istíonn go trom an meáchan
anuas ar do ghualainn
agus tuislíonn tú,
go ndamhsú an chré
a cothromú thú.

Agus nuair siocann do súile
thiar an fhuinneog gras
agus tagann an scáil diobhála
isteach go cnámh,
go dtaga ealta de líocha,
corcra, dearg, uaine,
agus gorm duibheagánach
a dhuisiú ionat
móinéar aoibhneais.

Nuair tá an canbhas ag roiseadh
sa curach smaoineamhe
agus dubhaíonn fut smál aigéin
go dtaga thar an uisce
cosán solais na gealaí bui
a thabhairt thú abhaile go sábhailte.

go rainh an beathú an talaimh agat,
go raibh an ghlaine solais agat,
go raibh an éascaiocht an aigéin agat,
go raibh an chosaint na sinsear agat.
Agus mar sin go n-oibrí I do thimpeall
gaoth fadálach na focail seo geana,
clóca dofheicthe
aire a thabhairt do do shaol.

Is ait an mac an saol.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6719
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 05:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

don't duplicate articles!

It's good, but I think you have been led astray by gnás an bhéarla in a few places.

More later - I have an impatient daughter....

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6720
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Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 06:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ar an lá nuair
Islíonn an meáchan go trom
anuas ar do ghualainn
agus go dtuislíonn tú,
go ndamhsaí an chré
chun tú a chur ar do chothrom arís.

I'm afraid I can't follow the second verse, since I don't know the original.

Nuair tá an canbhás ag roiseadh
i gcurach na smaointe
agus dubhaíonn fút smál aigéin
go dtaga thar an uisce
cosán solais na gealaí buí
chun tú a thabhairt abhaile go sábháilte.

go raibh an beathú an talaimh agat, (alternatively talún)
go raibh glaine an solais agat,
go raibh éascaíocht an aigéin agat,
go raibh cosaint na sinsear agat.
Agus mar sin go n-oibrí i do thimpeall
gaoth fadálach na focail seo an gheana,
clóca dofheicthe
a thabharfaidh aire do do shaol.

Await proofreading by the grammarians!

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 664
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 11:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Duirt Aonghus: "I'm afraid I can't follow the second verse, since I don't know the original."

Here's the English:

And when your eyes freeze
behind the grey window
and the ghost of loss comes into you,
may a flock of colors,
indigo, red, green, and blue
awaken in you
a meadow of delight.

Here's my shot at it:

Agus nuair siocann do shúile
thiar an fhuinneog gras
agus tagann an scáil diobhála
isteach go cnámh,
go dtaga ealta de líocha,
corcra, dearg, uaine,
agus gorm duibheagánach
a dhuisiú ionat
móinéar aoibhneais.

Is ait an mac an saol.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6723
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 07:26 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Agus nuair siocann do shúile
taobh thiar den fhuinneog glas (alt. laistiar; liath)
agus nuair a thagann taibhse an chaillteanais ionat,
go ndúisí scata dath
corcra, dearg, uaine, agus gorm
móinéar aoibhnis ionat.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 665
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 05:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Aonghuis, a chara,

Céad: Bliain Mhaith Úr duit. And thanks for taking the time with this thing. I must say I was delighted to discover how much of what I did managed to pass muster. It's been six years since I discovered this site, and back then I thought go raibh maith agat was pronounced go rabe mayth a gat.

Pé scéal é, I took your admonition to not duplicate articles to refer to my tendency to insert the definite article before nouns in both nominative and genitive: "the house of the old man." Won't do that no more.

It would be a help to know whether the changes you made to my effort were due to what you called gnás an Bhéarla or just plain error on my part. To that end I have reproduced the text below with your changes in black and my original stuff in parenthetical red. If you have any kind-hearted patience left, and time to kill as well, perhaps you could indicate why the phrases in red are inappropriate. If not, I'll surely understand.

Tá seacht n-iníonacha agam.

Beannacht
le
John O’Donohue
(d’aistrigh le Pádraig MacGafraidh)


Ar an lá nuair
Islíonn an meáchan
Anuas ar do ghualainn
agus go d(tuislíonn) tú,
go ndamhsaí an chré
chun tú a chur ar do chothrom aris (a cothromú thú.)

Agus nuair siocann do shúile
Taobh thiar den (an) fhuinneog glas
Agus nuair a thagann taibhse an chailltenais ionat
(Agus tagann an scáil diobhála
isteach go cnámh,)

go ndúisí scata dath,
(go dtaga ealta de líocha,)
corcra, dearg, uaine,
agus gorm (duibheagánach
a dhuisiú ionat)

móinéar aibhnis (aoibhneais) ionat.

Nuair tá an canbhas ag roiseadh
I gcurach na smaointe (sa curach smaoineamhe)
agus dubhaíonn fut smál aigéin(
cosán solais na gealaí bui
go dtaga thar an uisce
chun tú (a thabhairt) abhaile go sábhailte.

go raibh beathú an talaimh agat,
go raibh glaine solais agat,
go raibh éascaíocht an aigéin agat,
go raibh cosaint na sinsear agat.
Agus mar sin go n-oibrí i do thimpeall
gaoth fadálach na focail seo an gheana,
clóca dofheicthe
a thabharfaidh (future tense?) (thabhairt) aire do do shaol.

(Message edited by pádraig on January 01, 2008)

Is ait an mac an saol.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6725
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 06:21 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Maybe later!
A lot of my correction is based on gut feeling, so analysing it may take time.

quote:

future tense

Yes.

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c (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 01:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"It's been six years since I discovered this site, and back then I thought go raibh maith agat was pronounced go rabe mayth a gat"
You've come a long way from then, I'd say. Hat's off to you a Phádraig. Cá bhfaigheann tú an t-am? Go n-éirí an t-ádh leat leis na cailíní sin.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 666
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 02:29 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cá bhfaigheann tú an t-am?

I've discovered that studying a quarter hour per day is more effective than 1.75 hours once a week. This race is for turtles, not rabbits.

Is ait an mac an saol.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6727
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 05:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

agus go d(tuislíonn) tú Gut feeling that it's wrong without the eclipse
a cothromú thú I don't think you can use cothrom as a verb
taobh thiar de at the back of; de + an -> den
Agus tagann an scáil diobhála isteach go cnámh too wordy!
go dtaga ealta de líocha both ealta and líocha ar unfamiliar words to me - I preferred to use the words to hand
duibheagánach not there in the original
a dhuisiú ionat móinéar aoibhneais Verb Subject Object! i.e. too wordy and in this case wrong
a thabhairt thú abhaile go sábhailte something missing
sa curach smaoineamhe plural seems better here (also gen. sing is smaoinimh


Hope that helps.



duibheagán [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
poll nó scoilt an-domhain; domhain farraige nó talún; áit agus araile i bhfad thiar nó thíos (i nduibheagán na hoíche, an éadóchais).

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 667
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 08:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

a cothromú thú I don't think you can use cothrom as a verb

I think the transitive verb is cothromaigh

go dtaga ealta de líocha both ealta and líocha ar unfamiliar words to me - I preferred to use the words to hand

I chose ealta and liocha to convey the image of colors resembling a flock of birds filling the air around the person being blessed

Is ait an mac an saol.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6729
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 10:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I recant.

But:

cothromú [ainm briathartha][ainmfhocal firinscneach]
a dhéanamh cothrom.

This is to make equal, rather than to balance a person.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 668
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 02:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

How about comhardaigh?
Surely there's a word that means to balance.

Is ait an mac an saol.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6730
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 02:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

to balance has a variety of meanings in English, which are translated differently into other languages.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 669
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 05:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Credim go úsáidfidh mé stuamaigh faoi láthair. Is briathar aistreach é agus ciallaíonn sé "to calm down" nó "to steady."

Is ait an mac an saol.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6733
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 05:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ceart go leor, ach bí cúramach.
Ní féidir "a <briathar> tú" a rá.

(Message edited by aonghus on January 03, 2008)

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 670
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 09:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

An féidir "chun tú a stuamú" a rá?

Is ait an mac an saol.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 6735
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 06:17 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is dóigh liom é.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 671
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 08:46 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Maith go leor agus go raibh maith agat.

Is ait an mac an saol.

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déiridh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 10:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"...whether in person or on tape..."
i guess it won't be in person...
"...Irish Times Saturday, January 5, 2008 ...author John O’Donohue (53), died suddenly on Thursday 3rd January 2008..."

go maire na mairbh agus a mbriongloidi
i bhfoscadh chaoin dílis na Tríonóide



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