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Puma
Member Username: Puma
Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 11:30 am: |
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This question is probably elementary, but your help would be much appreciated. I am wondering if you could help clarify for me the pronunciation of the name Ríonach or Ríona. My main question is whether or not to pronounce the 'o'. I found in some places the pronounciation is (REE-uh-na, or REE-uh-nakh, with "ch" pronounced as in the Scottish word "loch"). But in other places the 'o' is silent. Does it depend on which region the speaker is from or has the pronunciation changed through time or both? I would guess that the 'o' is ignored because it is from the Old Irish female name Rígnach, meaning 'queenly'. Thanks very much! |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2196 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 01:13 pm: |
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As far as I know, you don't pronounce the o (in any region), it's just there to show that the n is broad: REE-naH [ˈriːnˠah] REE-nuh [ˈriːnˠə] Rígnach would be probably pronounced REEGH-nuKH [ˈriːɣnəx] Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Puma
Member Username: Puma
Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 03:47 pm: |
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Yes... that makes sense. I suppose the incorrect pronunciations that I have seen must be related to the pronunciation of 'Fiona', which was invented in the 19th century by Scottish author William Sharp. I just found an article on this name, which says "There are a number of other feminine Gaelic given names that are formed with Finn-, including Early Gaelic Finnguala, Finnmaith, Finnabair, and Finncháem. However, none of them could have given rise to a medieval Fiona for several reasons. Firstly, Gaels did not normally form nicknames or diminutives by simply dropping off the end of a given name. Secondly, they never formed nicknames or diminutives by dropping off the end of a given name and then adding -a. Thirdly, even if they had broken the rules to form a nickname in this way, no name formed from Finn-/Fionn- could result in a name pronounced as Fiona is (\fee-OH-nah\), because Gaelic words, including names, almost always have the emphasis on the first syllable, not the second, and Finn- (later Fionn-) is pronounced as a single syllable, \fin\ (later \fin\ or \fyun\), but never as two syllables with the emphasis on the second, \fee-OHN\. Fourthly, in Gaelic it is significant whether a word is spelled with two s, as in Finn-/Fionn-, or with one , as in Fiona. A word or name with two s will not normally transform into a word or name with only one ." Thanks very much (my wife will not be happy though, because she liked the REE-oh-na pronunciation for our baby) (Message edited by puma on December 18, 2007) |
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brn (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 12:10 am: |
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"Rígnach would be probably pronounced REEGH-nuKH [ˈriːɣnəx]" Lughaidh knows this (just so you won't say I said you didn't) but the broad ch sound changed over the history of Irish from a velar fricative to an uvular fricative. To day it's an uvular fricative, not a velar; velars are more likely to migrate, and if you listen to RnaG you don't get that migration forward and so no confusion with slender ch "Finn- (later Fionn-) " Well it's the same thing, only different spelling Fiona, I think was coined by Johnathan Swift (the irony of it all...). It is always pronounced fee'yón-na and is yes different to 'fee-onn' of Fionn |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2198 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 07:44 am: |
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Fionn has different pronunciations according to the dialect (I think). I just know the Ulster one: [ɸɔn̪ˠ] (learnt at Coleraine University). I'm not sure "fyonn" exists, because normally you can only have "fy-" before certain long vowels (ó, ú), as in feoil and fiú. Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2199 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 08:01 am: |
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Note: if it were "REE-uh-nakh", it would be spelt Rianach. Most of the time, ío is pronounced [iː]. Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Riona
Member Username: Riona
Post Number: 1288 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 04:43 pm: |
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You could pronounce it the way your wife likes if you put the fada over the o instead of the i. Sure it isn't traditional but it would be pretty. Incidentally I pronounce Riona as roughly REEunna with emphasis on the first syllable. This is how Aonghus and Seosamh told me to pronounce it. Best wishes with your new little one. Beir bua agus beannacht |
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