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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (November-December) » Archive through November 07, 2007 » Buntús Cainte question « Previous Next »

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 301
Registered: 09-2006


Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 12:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A quick question for those who may know:

Buntús Cainte: which dialect is it based on, or is it CO?

Thanks.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1110
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 12:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I've always understood it to be CO

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brn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 159.134.220.10
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 04:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

All the people on it are from Connacht which is why I feel so at home with them and their humour. One American lady on the internet described it as 'unintentionally homorous', which suggest that some mis the point, though I'd say most here would appreciate it, cultural connoisseurs/gourmands that ye are

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Seanfhear
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Username: Seanfhear

Post Number: 34
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 08:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Buntús Cainte" the series of books, is surely in the 'Caighdeán Oifigiúil'. I haven't listened much to the audio version but as this presumably reflects the material in the books it would be 'CO' Irish, spoken in predominantly Connemara Irish accents. The original series was first published back in the 1960s and has been in use ever since.

The subject matter badly needs updating of course, hence the 'unintentional humour' recalled by the American lady referred to above, but it was a brilliantly conceived series in its time. Its method for learning Irish has a carefully contrived simplicity, guaranteed to allay the usual anxiety of beginners with graded levels of complexity designed to lead into the language as 'painlessly' (read non grammar-based approach) ) as possible.

'Buntús Cainte' was primarily designed for use by beginners who are learning without a teacher, but it has proved very useful as an aid for teaching simple spoken Irish in class.

Seanfhear

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 306
Registered: 09-2006


Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:57 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Plus, I believe it was our very own Dennis King who told me right here on daltai.com that the vocabulary was also deliberately chosen to include the most commonly encountered words in Irish.

For many reason, BC seems to be a valuable adjunct to any course of study.

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 3277
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 12:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is fíor duit, a Dhomhnaill. Anois, tá ceist agam ort. An fear rua thú dháiríre? :-)

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 307
Registered: 09-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 01:53 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá mé cinnte rua, a Dhennis. Dáirire píre. Even my barber will attest!

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brn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 86.43.126.166
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 06:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"The subject matter badly needs updating of course, hence the 'unintentional humour' recalled by the American lady referred to above"

What has the old fashionedness of it got to do with how the humor is received? If one does not get the humor one is not familiar with Ireland enough. It has some of the most on target and sometimes subtle humor i've ever seen in print. Some of the scenes are no longer contemporary, but no other learning material situates the style of expression of Irish people, with that soft 'winking' humor. Unfortunately, as Ireland becomes increasingly grey and samey, many even here will not understand it. It is not the crass, arrogant, and self-gazing tripe you see on RTÉ's 'The Panel' where a bunch of unfunny 'comedians' sit about expressing their love of their own voices (i.e. urban Irish humor), but an often ironic look on people's foibles and failings that results from knowing them intimately. Some of the characters in it are almost archetypes.

"the vocabulary was also deliberately chosen to include the most commonly encountered words in Irish."

I would be surprised if they got it 100% as they did not have computer to construct frequency tables and ordinal lists. Also the material is not graded exactly right, at least I found. There is a greater degree of unevenness of curve on the 3rd book

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 3280
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 12:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Dhomhnaill Rua, perhaps you're a descendant of Connla, the protagonist of a tale in Old Irish:

A Chonnlai Rúaid
muinbric caindildeirc


O Ruddy Connla
freckle-necked, candle-red

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Alun (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 156.63.68.243
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 03:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I understood that Buntús Cainte was based on the research of the late Fr. Colmán Ó Huallacháin. If I remember correctly they audio recorded everyday conversations in homes and selected the highest frequency words.
The research was done 40 years ago so even the vocabulary may be somewhat dated.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1115
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 04:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

that and the fact that the "money vocabulary" is trapped two monetary systems ago (pre-decimal)

endearing, nonetheless

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Seanfhear
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Username: Seanfhear

Post Number: 35
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 08:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The unintentional humour is readily found along with the intentional humour in the text and the nice little illustrations which reflect a suburban Dublin of the 1950s and 60s. Needless to say I don't imply that this makes ' Buntús Cainte ' any the less useful.

Seanfhear

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brn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 159.134.221.179
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 07:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Oh right, there is unintentional humour? Since I'm missing it, can someone point out an example?! It's not unknown for me to miss the point...

As for suburban homour of 50s/60s, untill Whittaker's report and the enconomic changes brought in by Lemass in 60s the only suburbs in Ireland were of rich Catholics and Anglo-Irish (like Ranelagh and Ballsbridge). I would not have detected that in Buntús Cainte, but then again I don't know the world of 50s suburban Ireland (ancient history) and assumed the stories were set in rural Ireland

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Suaimhneas
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Username: Suaimhneas

Post Number: 358
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 11:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

the only suburbs in Ireland were of rich Catholics and Anglo-Irish (like Ranelagh and Ballsbridge).



What about Cabra West, Drimnagh, Crumlin, Marino?

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brn (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 159.134.220.126
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 01:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ya I lived in both the old ones and those 'newer' ones. I forgot about them!

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 58.108.28.38
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 08:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

brn, we need not make too much of this but I'm sure that American lady had good reason to be amused by the unintentional humour in 'Buntús Cainte' , as I now am having looked at it again after some years. To her it probably seems antediluvian in its portrayal of ordinary society but so would any similar instruction book for any language that was first published 40 or 50 years ago. This in no way implies that 'Buntús Cainte' does not do the job it was designed for.

You can see that many of the themes of 'Buntús Cainte' are now outdated. Relatively few families live this kind of traditional suburban life nowadays. BTW, don't forget that suburban life went on in Irish towns other than Dublin. When I was growing up in a smaller Irish town our daily lives were very much reflected in those ordinary domestic themes. But I know how funny it all seems to young people today. I am after all,

Seanfhear

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 315
Registered: 09-2006


Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 10:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I can't imagine any of the humorous graphics in BC sacrifice meaning.

Some of them are hilarious: "tá mé glan, tá tú salach" shows a boy taunting a girl who's cleaning a floor... then "Níl mé glan, níl tú salach" shows the boy with the pail of wash-water dumped over his head by the ticked-off girl. It's funny enough that it stuck in my mind, so it plainly served its purpose even though I didn't grow up washing floors out of a pail on hands-and-knees!

I also only vaguely recall the tale of Lady Godiva, but the depiction accompanying "Níl gúna agam" struck me as funny as well.

(Message edited by domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh on November 02, 2007)

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Seanfhear
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Username: Seanfhear

Post Number: 37
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 08:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Wow! My sense of humour must be wackier than I'd realised. Doesn't anyone else find the old-fashioned lifestyle of that family in Buntús Cainte amusing in this day and age? Not rolling-on-the-floor hilarious mark you, just provocative of a wry smile or two?

Seanfhear



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