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Aindréas
Member Username: Aindréas
Post Number: 207 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 09:46 am: |
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What's the difference in pronunciation between the singular and plural scéalaí and scéalaithe? The first is /s`k`e:Li:/ but it seems like the broad/slenderness would be exactly the same in the plural, so I'm not sure how to distinguish these. Is there any difference between using neart/mórán and go leor? I understand that mórán is for negative statements and questions, but can I say both An mbeidh mórán carranna ann?/An mbeidh go leor carranna ann? and Tá neart bróig agam./Tá bróig go leor agam.? What's the plural of fuinneoig? Because Ó Siadhail lists fuinneoga in the vocabulary list, than in a later grammar explanation has fuinneogaí móra for "big windows." Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2038 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 07:01 pm: |
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quote:What's the difference in pronunciation between the singular and plural scéalaí and scéalaithe? The first is /s`k`e:Li:/ but it seems like the broad/slenderness would be exactly the same in the plural, so I'm not sure how to distinguish these. I'm not 100% sure because Connemara Irish isn't my dialect, but I'd say there's no difference between these 2 words in pronunciation in that dialect. quote:Is there any difference between using neart/mórán and go leor? I understand that mórán is for negative statements and questions, but can I say both An mbeidh mórán carranna ann?/An mbeidh go leor carranna ann? and Tá neart bróig agam./Tá bróig go leor agam.? I think neart = go leor in Connemara, and that mórán is used in negatives and interrogatives sentences, as you said. I think it should be Tá neart bróg(a) agam and Tá go leor bróg(a) agam. (bróg should be in the genitive plural after go leor and neart). quote:What's the plural of fuinneoig? Because Ó Siadhail lists fuinneoga in the vocabulary list, than in a later grammar explanation has fuinneogaí móra for "big windows." The plural is fuinneogaí in Connemara, I think, but in the Standard and in Munster they use fuinneoga. So maybe in his vocabulary list he gave the Standard form by mistake. Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Jenny
Member Username: Jenny
Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 08:00 am: |
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check an foclóir beag ar líne. Tá samplaí ansin don uimhir iolra (Message edited by jenny on October 24, 2007) Jenny
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2039 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 01:26 pm: |
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As far as I know, an Foclóir Beag is in Standard Irish, so there will be differences (Learning Irish isn't written in Standard Irish and even not in Standard spelling). Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Jenny
Member Username: Jenny
Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 01:30 pm: |
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Thats true for you in spoken irish but in writing the language we must stick to An Chaighdéan más féidir, or there will be no standard at all. Jenny
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2040 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 01:49 pm: |
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Why must we? We do what we want, we won't be jailed if we don't write in the CO ! Nothing happened to Ó Siadhail after he published Learning Irish, which is in Cois Fhairrge Irish ! I write exactly as I speak, and it seems that everybody understands me. So why would I need to write in the CO ? Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6374 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 02:44 pm: |
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quote:it seems that everybody understands me Gach duine líofa! (seachas corrfhocal thall is abhus, ach tarlaíonn an rud céanna sa Bhéarla domsa) Tá a áit ag an gCaighdeán i ngnó oifigiúil, agus a n-áit ag na canúintí gach áit eile. Bheinn dóchasach. ach eithne Gaeilgeoirí líofa ann, go dtiocfaidh fíor chaighdeán chun cinn. Ach caithfear dlús a chuir leis an eithne sin. Táimid i bhfad uaidh fós. |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 3274 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 02:57 pm: |
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quote:it seems that everybody understands me Tuigim thú (ní gan stró uaireanta), ach cuireann do fhriotal gáire orm go minic. Sorta like reading the equivalent of: "I don't rightly know, Mars Tom, but I speck he's only jist a' animal. No, I reckon dat won't do, nuther, he ain't big enough for a' animal. He mus' be a bug. Yassir, dat's what he is, he's a bug." "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2041 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 05:04 pm: |
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quote:ní gan stró uaireanta ’Magadh ’tá tú ! Do you laugh when you read pre-caighdeán books? I've seen many that had been written more or less as I write (except I'm not a native speaker so my Irish isn't as good): apostrophies in the article 'an' and in 'ag', and purely dialectal forms all the time. Just as in Cnuasach Conallach http://homepage.eircom.net/~gfg/a.htm . Are all these texts that funny? :-) Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 3276 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 05:58 pm: |
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Tá an sliocht thuas ón úrscéal Tom Sawyer Abroad le Mark Twain. Tá a fhios agat cé hé, is dócha. Is cuid de phléisiúr an úrscéil é an litriú sin, gan dabht. Ach braitheann an pléisiúr ar an gcomhthéacs. Ní bheinn féin in ann teachtairecht i litriú mar sin a chur chuig cara nó liosta nó clár plé gan iontas a chur orthu. Ní dhéantar é, sin an méid. Agus níl aon duine eile a scríobhann Gaeilge anois mar a scríobhann tú féin í, i nuachtáin an lae inniu, ar bhloganna ná ar shuíomhanna idirlín, ná in aon cheann de na húrscéalta a léigh mé le fada an lá. Face it, is éan corr thú. Tá do litriú eisceachtúil. Tá blas an folklore collection air. Tá cognitive dissonance ann idir an litriú céanna agus tú féin, Francach óg nach bhfuil cónaí air sa Ghaeltacht. Tá mé cinnte nach scríobhann do mhúinteoirí, na daoine san ollscoil ar fhoghlaim tú an Ghaeilge uathu, nach scríobhann siad mar sin ar chor ar bith. Tig leat do rogha rud a dhéanamh, ar ndóigh, ach níl neart agat ar bharúil na ndaoine a léann na rudaí a scríobhann tú. Feictear *domsa* go bhfuil siad -- nó na héadaí atá orthu, ar aon nós -- aisteach agus greannmhar. "An seanchas gearr, an seanchas is fearr."
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2042 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 06:55 pm: |
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Léigh ’Amach as Ucht na Sliabh’, ’Seanchas Annie Bhán’, ’an tOileánach’ féin agus rudaí mar sin. Cha scríobhann achan duine sa chaighdeán. (Agus cha bhfoilsíthear achan leabhar sa chaighdeán ach an oiread). quote:Tá cognitive dissonance ann idir an litriú céanna agus tú féin, Francach óg nach bhfuil cónaí air sa Ghaeltacht. Tuighe? Agus cad é ’n duifear a bheadh ann dá mbínn ’mo chónaí sa Ghaeltacht? quote:Tig leat do rogha rud a dhéanamh, ar ndóigh, ach níl neart agat ar bharúil na ndaoine a léann na rudaí a scríobhann tú. An duine atá a’ léamh a scríobham, má shileann sé "bhuel, tá eolas maith aige’n duine sin ar Ghaeilg Uladh", beidh mé iontach sásta. Munab fhuil sé sásta leis a’ dóigh a mbreacam, is cuma liom :-) . Is leadránach liom an CO. Níl mórán daoiní ann a scríobhas mar seo siocair go bhfuil iogla orthu go silfí rud ineacht fá dtaobh daofa, b’fhéidir, nó siocair go sileann siad go gcaithfear scríobh sa chaighdeán agus chan ar dhóigh eile (siocair gur húradh leo ar scoil é). Curann sin iontas orm: a’ chuid is mó don am cha bhíonn dúil aige na daoiní sna rialacha agus ghníonn siad a ndícheall le gan cloí leofa! Ach cloíonn siad leis a’ chaighdeán, b’fhéidir, siocair gur húradh agus gur húradh aríst leofa sin a dhéanamh ’s iad iontach óg (agus mar sin, b’fhurast anál a chuir faofa) - níl ’s agam cad é mar a bíos teagasc na Gaeilge i scoltacha na Gaeltachta, ach cha dtuigeam sin. Níl ’s agam cad é ’n iogla ’bíos orthu. Ach ós rud é go dtuigeann achan chainteoir dúchais achan rud dá n-abartar ar RnaG nó ar TG4, sna canúintí eile féin, cad chuighe a mbeadh ar achan Ghaeilgeoir cloí le teangaidh chaighdeánaithe i dtéacsannaí pearsanta (nó neamhoifigiúla)? Má thuigeann siad a chéile ’s iad a’ caint, tuigfidh siad a chéile ’s iad a’ scríobh mar a labhras siad... Is é mo bharúil go gcaillfear caint na Gaeltachta muna mbaintear feidhm ach as a’ chaighdeán in achan áit (sileann roinnt daoiní sa Ghaeltacht nach bhfuil a dteangaidh ceart siocair nach í an teangaidh a theagasctar ar scoil agus a léitear sna leabharthaí). Caillfear í muna mbaintear feidhm aisti agus má chuirtear a’ caighdeán ina háit i dtólamh. Mar sin, baineamsa feidhm as Gaeilg Uladh (ar mhéid is a thig liom, mar go dtiocfadh le mo chuid Gaeilge bheith i bhfad níos fearr), ionas go bhfeicfí í agus nach ndéanfaí dearmad go bhfuil Gaeilg bheo ann taobh istoigh don chaighdeán. Chan minic a tchíomsa Gaeilg chanúnach ar na fóraim Ghaeilge. Buíochas le Dia tá Gaeilg Ghaeltachta le cluinstean ar a’ raidió agus ar a’ teilifís. Ach cha dtuigeam cad chuighe nach scríobhann mórán daoiní í. Dé ’n duifear? Taobh istoigh do stuif an Stáit, an gá cloí le caighdeán nach labhrann duine ar bith go nádúrtha (nó chóir a bheith) ? Cad é ’tá ’cuir isteach ort in mo chuid Gaeilge scríofa? Na a’, ’n srl? Scríobham mar sin siocair gur mar sin a scríobhtaí go minic roimhe’n chaighdeán, agus ionas go mbeadh ’s aige na foghlaimeoirí cad é mar is cóir an t-alt agus "ag" a dh’fhuaimniú. Is rómhinic a chluintear "tá - mé - ag - dul" nó "chuaig(h) - an - bhean - go dtí - an - phictiúrlann" srl (ó bhéal foghlaimeoirí agus ó bhéal a’ chuid is mó do na múinteoirí fosta!), nuair a deirfí achan chainteoir Gaeltachta: tá mé ’dul (nó ’goil nó ’gabháil) agus "chuaig a’ bhean go dtí’n phictiúrlann" nó "chuaigh a’ bhean ’na pioctúrlainne" nó stuif mar sin. Is beag áit nó leabhar ina míníthear na rialacha sine. Nuair a léas foghlaimeoir mo chuid postann, ar a laghad is féidir go bhfiabhrann sé dó féin "bhuel má scríobhann sé sin mar sin, is féidir go bhfuil cúis leis" agus le cuidiú Dé, cuartóchaidh sé tilleadh eolais fá dtaobh dó sin i leabhair ineacht agus beidh 's aige cad é mar is cóir na foclaí sine a dh’fhuaimniú ón am sin amach. - Bhuel, nuair a bíos cúrsaí CO i gceist, cha dtig drud ar mo bhéal :-) Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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