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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (September-October) » Archive through October 15, 2007 » Autonomous form of verb: past tense: Munster « Previous Next »

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Josh (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think possibly the most out-of-the-way piece of grammar in Irish relates to the autonomous form of the verb, and I am having a spot of bother pinning down some information. Can anyone help (I am unfortunately interested in what the original system regarded as correct in Munster was, and not in the CO, which system may or may not be the same)?

Q1. Teach Yourself Irish (Myles Dillon) indicates that the perfective particle does NOT lenite the autonomous form:

do glanadh: one cleaned/people cleaned

But: TYI doesn't give adequate examples of the negative and interrogative. Are these?

níor glanadh (no lenition?)
ar glanadh (no lenition?)

Do such rules for lenition apply across the board: they look at little wrong in some verbs. Eg: "do tugadh" or "do thugadh"? And níor tugadh? ar tugadh?

Q2. TYI says that "do" prefixes h to the autonomous form of the past tense:

do héisteadh: one listened/people listened

But: on p200 the same book gives 2 forms of the autonomus form of another verb that begins with a vowel:

do hosclaíodh OR d'osclaíodh

Which is correct?

What about the negative and interrogative?

níor hosclaíodh? or níor osclaíodh?
ar hosclaíódh? or ar osclaíodh?

Q3. I think I am right in saying that some irregular verbs have autonomous forms in the past tense that are always lenited, regardless of the consideration in Q1. Eg:

do chuathas, do thánathas, do chualathas, do chonacthas, do bhíothas.

So this means that whatever the answer to Q1 is, it doesn't apply to the 5 verbs in Q3, right?

I am sorry this question is so detailed, but this information is hard to pin down.



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