Hello again,

I know this is not really language related, however, I have noticed that when it comes to the Irish language...those who are interested in the language are often versed in many aspects of Celtic/Irish cultures in general.

I have been toiling over the "Celtic Lunar Tree Calendar." I know there are a lot of theories out there, and to be honest I am not interested in the debates.

What I want to know is if anyone here has also been interested in this and could point me to an expert in this matter?

I have some serious questions about this topic and I would like to hear the opinions of someone who might be more qualified to comment on this topic?

Most of the reading I have found on the internet leads to the idea that the Celts, and especially the Irish, may have used a 13 month lunar cycle system. I know that some have tried to recreate this calendar system using their imaginations which has caused a lot of problems.

I also know there are a lot of real scientific efforts out there trying to prove this and I would like to find them. All of my efforts are being slowed down because of the numerous websites out there with "less than academic" information. If anyone knows someone, or maybe where to search for them, I would really appreciate the help...???

Thanks

Pls tell us where you came across the Celtic Lunar Tree Calender. Its something I've not heard of before. The early Irish alphabet's letters had the names of various trees (easily found on the net) and lunar calenders must have been commonplace all over the world at one time, but a 'Lunar Tree Calender', Celtic or otherwise, that sounds intriguing. Assuming that you've already been in contact with the various Celtic Studies Schools and Faculties in USA, Europe and Britain maybe you could try An Roinn Béaloideasa - The Folklore Dept - Univ. College Dublin ? And be sure to let us know what you turn up.

Seanfhear

Well, like I said...I am not really qualified to make too many comments on the topic. I have only been reading things off the net and they tend not to give a lot of credible information.

I am taking a Religions Class at my university and we began talking about "alternative religions" which have been popping up in the last 100 years or so. The majority of the "alternative religions" tend to be modern day attempts to return to old world religions. There are many names and religions and I do not want to step on any toes here. They have been called everything from "New Age to Neo-Pagan." Some of the religions we were talking about are the "Druidic faiths" that have re-emerged in the last 50 years, and being a fan of Celtic culture this really caught my attention.

Now we don't really know what the Druids did or how they conducted the majority their practices...there were too many different groups, they didn't exactly write things down, and Christian ideology put a serious black mark on Druidic practices. So everything we are doing now, are creations of a modern day people. We have cut and paste different practices from several different "alternative religions" that we felt fit the image of Druid beliefs....

While I am not sure how I feel about their beliefs and practices, one of the more interesting things is the rise of the idea of Celtic astrology. We now that with the building of monoliths and tombs they were looking up at the night sky, but we really don't know what they knew and believed. Again, there is a lack of written material out there...

There are three different theories out there right now as to how the Celtic calendar may have worked, if they actually had one.

1) Celtic cultures had a lunar (moon) cycle system.
2) Celtic cultures had a solar-lunar system like we do.
3) Celtic cultures had no calendar system.

With a lack of evidence out there...most people automatically assume they did not have one. However, in the last century people have been trying to prove otherwise. When we found the Coligny calendar in France, it proved that at least the Continental Celts had an extremely accurate lunar calendar, that they modified to match the Romans solar calendar...so people began to re-think the Insular Celts.

The problem is that there is little evidence outside of mythology to prove they did. And to make matters worse, some people ruined the credibility of one with their imaginary works.

Graves is the most famous for this, he created a lunar calendar system of 13 lunar months. On top of that, he named each month after the trees he new were being worshiped in the Ogham by the Druidic faiths. And people across the world took him seriously...he made a very believable scenario. But he was a poet, not a scientist, and the scientific community ate him alive and now do not easily except any idea that is similar to it.

What is interesting is that the "Alternative Religions" have brought back his calendar or some variation of it and are actively using it.

From what I understand...it has 13 lunar months named after the trees of the Ogham in a complex lunar cycle. The months are roughly 28 days long and are separated into two halves, a dark half and a light half. The year itself is also separated into to halves, a dark and a light. Their New Year begins on the first new moon after Halloween, or when the moon is new around this period.

What is interesting is they reject the Western notion of fixed time. For instance, they embrace the notion that the moon is not going to be in the same phase at the same time every month. They call it the "natural chaos" of reality.

But that is all I know about it...I am looking for more information.

If anyone knows more about this, or can correct anything I have said, I would love to hear from you.

Thanks C-D for the explanation of where you are coming from. I agree that much has been written about 'The Druids'. I think that a lot of people have projected their own ideas backwards onto the few basic accepted facts. The history of the 'revival' of Druidism in Wales is for me the most relevant item of information.

In some ways I am happy to see the attempts to create a unique "Celtic Astrology." However, I do not know if we can really call it "Celtic" because it will be the creation from elements of many modern day practices coming from many cultures around the world...

If they refine their creation based entirely off of the mythological sources (which seems to be what's happening)...is that going to be enough for the world to accept it as real?

For instance, some of the common elements of the calendar seem to be the 13 month division based off the concept of lunar worship, followed by a period of time that does not exist. This period of time is usually a day or month depending on how the calendar is set up to synchronize with the solar cycle. Both historical and mythological evidence supports this idea.

I bring this up because the modern day attempts to follow this practice, has created an extremely complicated lunar cycle in order to create some sort of ordered recurrence, which goes against some of the perceived Druidic beliefs of "natural chaos."

Seriously, it is a really interesting topic and I encourage anyone who gets into this stuff to take a look at it.

Here is the typical Celtic Calendar:

The calendar is divided into 13 months of 29 or 30 days. Every 2 1/2 years an extra month is added to put it back on track with the solar calendar. However, you do not count by individual years, but rather by lusters (5 years) and cycles (30 years). So you would not say today is the ninth day, of the tenth month, of the two thousand and seventh year. ( October 9, 2007 ) You would say it is the "blank" day, of the "blank" moon, of the "blank" luster, of the "blank" cycle.

This is the rather complicated calendar system which is becoming the staple in modern Druidic religious practices...however...it doesn't really have to be so difficult. You can use another calendar system and it will still fit the pattern that we think the Druids followed...

For example, you could still have a night based calendar that consists of 13 months of 28 nights with one night of "nothingness" which gives you 365 nights....on a leap year you can just add a "nothingness" night. Hmm, that's strange, you can have a night time calendar that matches the day time calendar and still meet all the "Celtic" belief requirements ;0)

But for some reason, people prefer the complicated system... :0(