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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6172 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 06:07 am: |
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quote:Tá sé ráite ag an Immigrant Council of Ireland (ICI) gur cheart go mbeadh ranganna Gaeilge ar fáil d'aon inimirceach a thiocfadh go hÉirinn. http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=2341&viewby=date Faraor, níor tuairiscíodh an chuid seo den scéal sna Meain Béarla (iontas na n-iontas) |
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 06:28 am: |
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iontas na n-iontas go cinnte a chara. Táim tinn focain tuirseach dóibh siúd sna meáin Béarla. Chuir mé an ceangal sin suas ar suíomh an Indo ansin, faoin ainm Tom. Sa bpobalbhreith s'acu |
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 250 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 12:02 pm: |
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Scríobh duine eile rud eicínt faoin ainm Tom freisin ar suíomh an Indo ach ní mé atá ann. Is fuath liom nuair a dhéanas amadáin é sin (Message edited by Mise_Fhéin on September 12, 2007) |
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Diarmo
Member Username: Diarmo
Post Number: 240 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 06:27 pm: |
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Ar feabhas! We should be creating sites for all the Polish people etc to learn Irish! if not the opportunity will be lost-maybe it is already lost?? How is Colleen getting on with her classes? still many people attending?? I would help more if I had the time Knowing a little Irish would be great for new people here- I said to one of my friends yesterday who will soon have Irish nationality that he should learn Irish he said back he is not moving to Connemara :( we are losing the battle i'm afraid a chairde! Foreigners are soaking up negative attitudes from RTE and papers like the Indo and silly attitudes towards Irish that some Eireannaigh have ....is mar sin a feicim e..cad a cheapann sibh? |
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Diarmo
Member Username: Diarmo
Post Number: 241 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 06:36 pm: |
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Cen fath nach caitheann an rialtais beagan airgead ar leabhran do strainsear chun beagan Gaeilge a foghlaim?? Nuair a bhi me i mo chonai i Maidrid fuair me an leabhran seo http://weib.caib.es/Recursos/abast/home.htm ta dha coip agam le diosca -ceann amhain i mBearla agus ceann eile i Spainnais! Ta beagan Cataloinis agam fhein anois I cant understand why they our government has created the same..wasted time cad a cheapann sibh???!(Immigrants who speaks lanaguages like French,Arabic,Chinese here now ten or more years they will never bother to learn Irish!!) |
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 04:10 am: |
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"We should be creating sites for all the Polish people etc to learn Irish! if not the opportunity will be lost-maybe it is already lost??" Ní raibh suim ag formhór acub sa gcéad áit. Níl siad anseo don gcultúr ach chun a gcuid a dhéanamh as an "Tíogar Ceilteach" "Knowing a little Irish would be great for new people here- I said to one of my friends yesterday who will soon have Irish nationality that he should learn Irish he said back he is not moving to Connemara :(" Is mór an trua nach bhfuil fonn ar na hinimircigh a bhfuil sa nGaeltacht cheana an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim. Ar a laghad thaispeáin do chara roinnt meas. (Message edited by Mise_Fhéin on September 13, 2007) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6176 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 06:10 am: |
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Maidir le Gaeilge agus Polannais http://ie.youtube.com/user/Ionadbuailisteach Is ó Mhuintir na hÉireann a fhaigheann inimicigh a ndearca ar an nGaeilge. |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1071 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 06:24 am: |
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Re this Ionad Buail Isteach. Idea is good, but execution is lamentable. If I were Polish - I would be immensely confused why the same Polish word "Cześć" (basically "Haigh") is first translated "Dia dhuit" and immediately after that "Slán leat". On other occasion they say "Przepraszam" is both "Gabh mó leithscéal" and "Tá brón orm". But the effort is nice. quote: Ní raibh suim ag formhór acub sa gcéad áit. Níl siad anseo don gcultúr ach chun a gcuid a dhéanamh as an "Tíogar Ceilteach" This is fundamentally wrong view. Any psychologist would confirm that immigrants are even more interested in Irish than locals are, because they feel subconsciously that studying cúpla focal would help them to mesh with society better. If not for themselves, then at least for their children. It is completely different thing that State grants their children automatic exemption (instead of voluntary opt-out), thus if they pro-actively want their children to have bit of Irish - they have to fight with headmaster. Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6178 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 06:30 am: |
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The automatic exemption is indeed a problem, but applies only to those who are over 11 when they enter the State (i.e. secondary school pupils). It is a consequence of the bad curriculum and lack of planning by the state and says more about our inability to educate anybody in Irish than about immigrants. The secondary school Irish curriculum assumes and requires that pupils have attained basic fluency in primary school. This assumption is false in most cases, and so we get the mess. |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 508 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 08:41 am: |
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"This is fundamentally wrong view. Any psychologist would confirm that immigrants are even more interested in Irish than locals are, because they feel subconsciously that studying cúpla focal would help them to mesh with society better. If not for themselves, then at least for their children" Ní fíor san, a Romáin. Is iondúil do inimiriceoirí suim a chur sa teanga atá thuas, an ceann is mó úsáid, ina féidir leo a mbeatha a thabhairt i dtír ann: sin an fáth ar tháinig siad { Glacaim go mbíonn eisceachtaí ann}. Ní heol dom áit ar bith ar fud an domhain ar chur rabharta inimiriceoirí le neart mionteangacha le hais an teanga a tá thuas |
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 255 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 08:49 am: |
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"This is fundamentally wrong view. Any psychologist would confirm that immigrants are even more interested in Irish than locals are, because they feel subconsciously that studying cúpla focal would help them to mesh with society better. If not for themselves, then at least for their children. It is completely different thing that State grants their children automatic exemption (instead of voluntary opt-out)" Bheadh sé togha dá mbeadh sé fíor ach, faraor, níl. "thus if they pro-actively want their children to have bit of Irish - they have to fight with headmaster." Seafóid den chéad scoth |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1074 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 08:50 am: |
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Fearn, I was never saying that ALL of them are interested, but some are interested for sure. And the current problem is that government supposes that immigrants don't want any irish by default - and this not true. Re minority languages. It is sure that Polish immigrants will not study a lot of Irish in Dublin, however they might in Conamara where they see people actually speaking Irish. However the state denies them such opportunity - immigrant children even get exemption while studying in all-Irish schools (unbelievable, isn't it?). Haven't you heard of Russian (ok, ex-Russian) girl in An Daingean, which as it appears didn't have to study Irish for 4 years while at school which is supposedly all-Irish? And only now when 2 schools (both of them all-Irish) are amalgamated the whole story came out? So I suppose immigrant children have to be treated the same way children of nationals are treated - no opt-outs if in Gaeltacht. I can't imagine somebody getting exemption from French if in France, even if moved after the age of 12! (Message edited by róman on September 13, 2007) Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1075 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 08:52 am: |
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thus if they pro-actively want their children to have bit of Irish - they have to fight with headmaster." Seafóid den chéad scoth Believe what you wish - I heard the story of Pakistani doctor who had to argue with headmaster for his children to study Irish just yesterday. Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 256 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 08:52 am: |
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"It is sure that Polish immigrants will not study a lot of Irish in Dublin, however they might in Conamara where they see people actually speaking Irish." Bheadh sé togha dá mbeadh sé fíor ach, faraor, níl. |
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 257 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 08:53 am: |
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"Believe what you wish - I heard the story of Pakistani doctor who had to argue with headmaster for his children to study Irish just yesterday." Foinse? Source? |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1076 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 08:55 am: |
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Mise_fhéin, your xenophobic and supremacist agenda is really turning me inside out. Do you have any specific examples to illustrate your point? I know personally of one Slovak guy, named Martin, who learned Irish while working in Inis Mór's Spar. No, he doesn't work there anymore - but any local will confirm my words. Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1077 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 08:57 am: |
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Mise fhéin - foinse? Friend of mine, prof from Limerick university told me it yesterday. Now can you give any sources of your assertions that no immigrant wants to study any Irish? Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6182 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 09:00 am: |
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Fiainaise, a Mhise Fhéin? Bhuail mise le fear as an Pholainn a bhí líofa sa Ghaeilge. Bhí conaí air i gcathair na Gaillimhe - lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht. Agus bhí tóir ar ranganna Coleen san Ionad Buail Isteach. Tá an cheart ag Rómán; níl an deacracht chéanna intinne ag eachtrannaigh, a bhfuil níos mó ná teanga amháin acu, dul i ngleic le teanga eile, agus atá ag anglofónaigh na hÉireann. Fiainiase eile: an t-aisteoir i Yu Ming; leaid óg ón tSín nach raibh ach roinnt bliainta in Éirinn sular bhain sé amach ónóracha san Teastas Sóisearach i nGaeilge. (Bhí sé ar scoil le FnaB; glacaim leis go raibh lámh ag muinteoir chumasach i sealbhú na teangain sa dá chás). quote:Haven't you heard of Russian (ok, ex-Russian) girl in An Daingean, which as it appears didn't have to study Irish for 4 years while at school which is supposedly all-Irish? Chuir tú do mhéir ar an fhadhb ansan, a Rómán. Is cosúil go bhfuil an raic airithe sin ag leathnú sa Daingean; bhí cruinniú poiblí ann le cúplá lá anuas ag lorg Béarla san scoil. Tá amhras orm an raibh Meanscoil na Toirbhirte lán ghaelach in ainneoin gurbh é sin an polasaí agus stádas a bhí acu. Is cosúil gur chreid sciar mhaith de na tuismitheoirí nach raibh. 'Sé an Roinn Éadóchais an fhadhb is mó in athshealbhú na Gaeilge in Éirinn. (Message edited by aonghus on September 13, 2007) |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1078 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 09:06 am: |
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Aonghus, I suppose if somebody could get away with not studying Irish for 4 years - the school cannot be possibly "all-Irish". But then the question arises - how come a school in Gaeltacht is not all-Irish? I think it is time to kick out An Daingean out of Gaeltacht, for good reason! Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 510 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 09:07 am: |
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tá gá le fíoras nó dhó ar an téad seo, nó níl ann ach tuairimí ag sárú a chéile |
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 259 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 09:21 am: |
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"Now can you give any sources of your assertions that no immigrant wants to study any Irish?" I never said that you idiot. "your xenophobic and supremacist agenda is really turning me inside out" You're very very lucky we'll never meet in person Róman , I don't tolerate insulting fools like you. |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1079 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 09:24 am: |
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Fearn, I am just opposed to narrow minded people who assert/imply that it is the immigrants who ultimately threaten/ destroy Irish language. While reading those bigots you can be under naive impression that Irish language was flourishing in Ireland, and now, oh horror, came vicious immigrants and made everybody speak English. There are tons more immigrants in France, Germany, Sweden or Netherlands - somehow everywhere immigrants don't succeed in "imposing" English on the society, they start speaking vernacular. If that doesn't happen in Ireland - maybe there is something wrong with Irish society, not with immigrants per se. And I fail to see why immigrants shouldn't start speaking Irish if some things change in Ireland. Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1080 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 09:26 am: |
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Mise-fhein - yes, please, continue. The society has the right to know your true self. "Mise féin", indeed! Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 260 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 09:43 am: |
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Róman you described me as a "xenophobic and supremacist" because I asked you for a source on the statement that "if they (immigrants) pro-actively want their children to have bit of Irish - they have to fight with headmaster" and that a: "Pakistani doctor who had to argue with headmaster for his children to study Irish just yesterday" I don't believe that. I could be wrong I don't know. You said: "It is sure that Polish immigrants will not study a lot of Irish in Dublin, however they might in Conamara where they see people actually speaking Irish." and then I said i nGaeilge: "That would be great if it were true, but sadly it's not" I'm basing this statement on my personal experience in the Mayo, Galway and Kerry Gaeltachtaí. Ok. The sample Aonghus gave of Marcin Ostasz in Galway and Yu Ming in Dublin proves that some are learning and have fluent Irish etc. Of course, we know this. I was merely saying that the majority don't have an interest to learn the language because they're not here for that. Simple as. Sin é é... Táim ag tnúth le do leithscéal don mhasla uafásach sin uait (Message edited by Mise_Fhéin on September 13, 2007) (Message edited by Mise_Fhéin on September 13, 2007) |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1081 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 10:43 am: |
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Tell us more about Mayo. I am eager to hear about locals that are all speaking Irish, but are, unfortunately, swamped by ignorant immigrants. Re Kerry gaeltacht - only people that threaten the language there are Dubs buying summer houses. I spent one week in Baile na nGall this summer and as I stayed at bean an phoist home - I had very instructive chats on that topic. Now re Galway - you heard your stories, I heard mine. Next time you are in Inis Mór - drop to Costello's B&B and chat up bean an tí - Sally. She will tell you about Martin, I am talking about. Your previous post (not the last one, thanks God) just seems to be one of those invented excuses how people transfer their own fault on somebody else. If Irish ever dies - it won't be because of immigrants, for sure. Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6183 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 10:47 am: |
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Breis fiainaise: http://www.coislife.ie/books/prosebooks/seanfhocal.htm quote:Díolaim mhealltach de 500 seanfhocal Gaeilge roghnaithe ag Donla uí Bhraonáin agus leagan Béarla curtha aici leo. Aistriúcháin go Spáinnis curtha ar fáil ag Carmen Rodriguez Alonso agus leaganacha Polainnise déanta ag Anna Paluch. Tá eachtrannaigh de chuil sórt gníomhach i saol na gaeilge, agus bhí riamh. (Marstrander, Thomas 7 rl). Dar ndóigh is mionlach iad. Mar a dúirt mé thuas: quote:Is ó Mhuintir na hÉireann a fhaigheann inimicigh a ndearca ar an nGaeilge. Seo roinnt tuairimí ag Éireannaigh de bhunadh na Síne: http://kaykays.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=711 |
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 261 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 10:49 am: |
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Your previous post (not the last one, thanks God) just seems to be one of those invented excuses how people transfer their own fault on somebody else. If Irish ever dies - it won't be because of immigrants, for sure. You've lost me which post, and in which post did I transfer fault or blame anyone? |
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Cailindoll
Member Username: Cailindoll
Post Number: 193 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 11:33 am: |
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Diarmo, Didn't manage to read the posts in between but to respond to the question way up above there, Tá na ranganna ar summer break but due to start up again possibly on Sunday nights at the club -- have you any free time on Sunday, maybe once a month???? Does anyone?? I have a huge list of people that want to participate. We're also doing a 'cead cainte' or immersion day for everyone adults, kids, fluent speakers and those gan focal ar bith. It'll be at the Axis Theatre in Bally Munna on 20th of October, starting about 10/11:00ish and finishing with optional dinner and a stand-up comedy event/seisiun in Irish. Can't wait. Hope all the Daltaí chat folks in Dublin will come. (Aongus is excused as he reminds me that Wicklow is technically not Dublin) Geography is not my strong point. Speaking of stand-up comedy, and immigrants with Irish, has anyone seen Des Bishop. He's at Vicar Street in Dublin tonight. I must see if there are tickets left! Slán go fóill. Colleen |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 513 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 11:54 am: |
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"There are tons more immigrants in France, Germany, Sweden or Netherlands - somehow everywhere immigrants don't succeed in "imposing" English on the society, they start speaking vernacular" Is fíor dhuit, a Rómáin.[ ach béarla in áit an Bhéarla] Ní théann imiriceoirí le Briotáinis, nó Bascais, nó Próbháinis san Fhrainc; Nó Soirbis sa Ghearmáin; nó Eascaimis sa tSualainn; nó Friaslainnis san Ollainn: ach leis an teanga atá thuas! |
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Róman
Member Username: Róman
Post Number: 1084 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 12:03 pm: |
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Incidentally I was to Friesland myself, years ago though. The situation is comical there - Dutch state is forcing them to speak Frisk by sybsidizing anything you can think of, but the locals couldn't care less. As we were doing field research regarding attitude towards the language - the main finding was that when considering which school to ship their children to, the main factor was the distance to it, not the language of instruction. And this was the town where 70% of population were native speakers. So if the locals don't care about the language and happily switch to Dutch (just like Irish) - why would immigrants start studying Frisk? Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!
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Diarmo
Member Username: Diarmo
Post Number: 242 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 05:39 pm: |
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Maybe I will do something like the Catalans myself and leave you guys to discuss language policy.. |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 519 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 09:26 am: |
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A Romáin, Sin mo phointe go díreach! |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6189 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 10:40 am: |
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Sea. Ach ní ar na himircigh an locht, ach an muintir na tíre. Bhí Róman (agus an lán cheart aige) ag cur i gcoinne na tuairime gur bagairt bhreise iad na hinimircigh don teanga. Má fhaigheann an Ghaeilge bás, Muintir na hÉireann a bheidh freagrach. |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 523 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 10:45 am: |
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Ní shainním locht, is gnás iompair é. Is bagairt bhreise rabharta inimiriceoirí do aon mhiontheanga in áit ar bith ar fud an domhain, nó tá mé ag lorg fianaise nach mar sin é. Cinnte tá an tÉireannach freagrach as an Ghaeilge thar an eachtranach. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6190 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 10:55 am: |
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Sa mhéid agus go claochlaítear an pobal má bhíonn líon mór inimircigh ann, is dócha go bhfuil an cheart agat maidir leis an nGaeltacht. Ach táim ag ceapadh gur mó de bhagairt iad na hinimicigh anglofónacha (cuma an Éireannaigh nó eachtrannaigh iad) ná dream a bhfuil teanga eile acu. Chuige sin a tacaím ( i bprionsabal seachas go gníomach) leis an dream airdeallach Maidir leis an nGalltacht ina bhfuil conaí orm, feictear dom go bhful síos níos fusa Gaeilge a labhairt anois ar shráideanna Bhaile Átha Cliath gan aird agus drochmheas a tharraingt ort fhéin ó na hAnglofónaigh fóbacha, de bhrí go bhfuil siad imithe i dtaithí an na hiolbhéarlaí do chlos. |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 524 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 11:14 am: |
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Is chuig bhagairt ar theanga, go háirithe mar theanga pobail a bhí mé seachas do thaithí labhartha fhéin. Déarfadh duine gur dul chun cinn craoladh Nuacht sa Laidin ar Raidio na Fionnlainne ar feadh cúig nóiméad gach lá nó níl fhios agam an mbíonn doicheall roimh labhairt na Laidne ar an tsráid, ach fós, dar liom, is bagairt di mar teanga pobail an líon mór daoine nach labhrann í, atá coibhneasta leis a laghad daoine a labhrann í |
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