Cén fath nach labhraíonn Harry Potter Gaeilge?

I mean he can speak French, Dutch, Italian even Faroese. Only one of the seven books are available to young irish speakers, I think its absolutely atrocious that this famous series is not available in irish, just goes to show the utter complacency of the government and an Bord Leabhar Gaeilge in promoting the language.

Speaking as someone whose sons are in the demographic,I would consider translating books from English to Irish a waste of resources.

I bought both the Harry Potter and Artemis Fowl books; both are excellent translations.

But the fact is my children had already read the corresponding english book, which of course appeared a few years before.

If we are to spend money on translation, it should be from languages other than English to get the benefit.

Aontaím go hiomlán le hAonghas. Tá Béarla ag gach páiste a bhfuil Gaeilge aige agus b'fhearr le gach duine dul go dtí an fhoinse agus an leagan bunaidh de leabhar a léamh má tá an teanga inar scríobhadh é aige. Cé a léifeadh an leagan Béarla de "An Béal Bocht" seachas duine gan Ghaeilge? Tá ciall le haistriúcháin Ghaeilge ó theangacha eile seachas an Béarla, ach is é an rud is tabhachtaí ar fad bunsaothair Ghaeilge a thugann léargas ar shaol agus ar chultúr na hÉireann nach mbíonn le fáil i saothair na n-údar eachtrannach.

By the way, translation was extensively tried by An Gúm, with good writers employed to do that translation. The writers considered it was a waste of their talents, and prevented them from writing good work in their own right.

I think it was - few if any of those books (which were classics) are still in print.

http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=2218&viewby=date

quote:

Agus mé ag méirínteacht tríd na leabhair bheaga seo ba dheacair dom gan smaoineamh ar an chonspóid a bhí ann i 1930í na haoise seo caite nuair a bhí An Gúm ag iarraidh ábhar léitheoireachta a chur ar fáil i nGaeilge trí dhaoine a fhostú chun aistriúcháin a dhéanamh ar shaothair údar mór le rá.

Dar leis an iar-aire Earnán de Blaghd a bhí go mór i bhfabhar na scéime: "Ní fheicim aon tslí eile chun a ndóthain leabhar a chur ar fáil sa Ghalltacht agus sa Ghaeltacht dos na daoine óga a bheadh ábalta ar iad a léamh ach amháin dul ar aghaidh leis an aistriúchán."

Bhí go leor ann a shíl gur shaibhre a bheadh an teanga de bharr an aistriúcháin, mar go raibh 'meirg' uirthi ceal úsáide ar feadh na mblianta. Ach orthu sin is mó a bhí ina choinne bhí na scríbhneoirí, Seosamh Mac Grianna agus a dheartháir Séamus.

Dar leis na Griannaigh mhúch an scéim aistriúcháin cibé cumas cruthaíochta a bhí acu féin agus shíl scríbhneoirí eile go raibh an Gúm ag tabhairt tús áite d'aistriúcháin agus ag déanamh faillí sa bhunscríbhneoireacht.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0019/S.0019.193504100008.html

agus ar lean:

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0019/S.0019.193505220002.html

quote:

Tá aon rud amháin adubhairt an Seanadóir nách bhfuilim ar aon intinn leis ina thaobh. Do réir mo bharúla thug sé an iomarca molta don mhaith a bheadh in aistriúchán, sin innsin in Gaedhilg a chur ar leabhraí a bheadh sgríobhtha i dteangacha eile. Réitím leis go mbeidh na céadta leabhraí nua i nGaedhilg ag teasdáil uainn acht chó fada agus is féidir é b'fhearr iad seo a cheapadh do réir stuaim agus intleachta na nGaedheal ná go mbeadh aon smaoineadh Gallda ag rith tríotha.

An rud a chídhfeas an leanbh, isé ghnídheas an leanbh, agus ar an ábhar sin, is féidir tairbhé mhór a bhaint as pictúirí, agus as fóirleathnú, le suim a thabhairt don aos óg i dteanga a dtíre. Sé an rud is mó a bhí ag tabhairt na Gaedhilge faoi dhrádhamh agus faoi dhrochmheas go raibh bunáite na ndaoine a raibh comhacht agus comhairle aca ag tabhairt chúil agus druim láimhe dhí. Caithfear an gnás tuatach sin a athrú. Deirtear, agus is fíor é, go mb'fhearr gníomh ná caint—agus níl aimhreas ar bith nách bhfuil deis againne san Dáil agus san tSeanad deagh-shompla agus treóir i dtaobh na Gaedhilge a thabhairt don tír.

Sin i 1935. Agus, monuar, ní feabhas ach a mhalairt atá ann ó shin.

Beodh iontach leabhar úrma dó cailaigh Éireannach!

I'm just starting, so this phrase pushes my limits of Gaeilge. But I agree translation of already popular English books into Irish seems like a long way 'round to address the problem. Why not capitalize on the Harry Potter craze, though? Irish legends are full of enough sídhe tales and heroic figures in Irish legend to captivate any would-be Hogwarts student. Imagine what the Cúchulainn tales would be like set in modern Ireland, or other stories from the Ulster Cycle? Were I a child, I would love to pretend to be Cúchulainn an tréan.

Is dóigh liom gur chuireadh teangacha éagsúla, go háirithe mionteangacha, ar hp de chionn achainí an údair.

Anois, ní dóigh liom gur chuireadh Breatnais ach ar an chéad leabhar freisin, cé go bhfuil Laidin ar trí cinn.

Is maith an rud Gaeilge a chur ar aon rud a théann chun leas an phobail, fiú scéim an Ghúim fadó. Feictear dom go bhfuil a léithéid de scéim san Íoslainn ina gcuirtear Íoslainnis ar lear mór leabhra eachtrannacha gach bhliain. Níor chuala mé raimh go ndearna sé dochar do chumadh na scríobhneoirí dúchais.

'Sé an deacracht le Gaeilge a chuir ar leabhair Béarla gur cur amú airgid é don chuid is mó, toisc go mbíonn an leabhar Béarla léite ag daoine go minic roimh teacht ann don leabhar Gaeilge.

Tá acmhainní tearc.

A Chailean a chara,

Failte go an suiomh.

Not being a child doesn't have to stop you from playing pretends. All you need to find is someone likeminded who will play with you. It is one of my favorite things to do.

I hope you enjoy using the website here. We have many very knowledgable people running around who can help you with any questions you may have.

Beir bua agus beannacht

"'Sé an deacracht le Gaeilge a chuir ar leabhair Béarla gur cur amú airgid é don chuid is mó, toisc go mbíonn an leabhar Béarla léite ag daoine go minic roimh teacht ann don leabhar Gaeilge.

Tá acmhainní tearc."


tuigim duit go pointe, ach beidh glúin eile .i. cúig bliana abair in ár diaidh a mbeidh dall ar theaspach hp ach a mbeadh na leabhair roimpu.

Más teirce acmhainní na Gaeilge anois agus Éire ar thíortha is saibhre ar chlár na cruinne, ní lá go fóill é!

quote:

ach beidh glúin eile .i. cúig bliana abair

Meas tú? Cá bhfuil na leabhair an fad a d'aistrigh an Gúm sna 1930í?

Bhal, nuair a bhí mé i mBÁC Cúpla blianta ó shoin, cheannóinn iad siopa Green.
Aon uair a théinn ar fud na tíre, chuardóinn siopa leabhar athláime agus bheinn ar mo shámhín só ag dul tríd na sean leabhair Gaeilge ó 75 de bhlianta ó shoin. Cheannóinn iad cionn is nach raibh siad ar fáil áit ar bith eile

Cinnte cuirfear hp ó barr na mbéistsaolars ach cad chuige é a cheilt ar an pháiste atá ag teach in inmhe anois?

Tá siopa Greene's ar shlí na fírinne, mo lean.

Sé sin le rá, níl siad ach san cibearsaol níos mó.

http://www.greenesbookshop.com/

Deacair cuardach ansin, gan an teideal a bheith agat...

Baineann cibearspás an sásamh ceart de chuardach leabhar measaim.


Agus na seanleabhair arís, bhí ráfla cúpla bliain ó shoin gur scrios an Gúm stoc uile na seanleabhar a bhí acu ar mhaithe le spás; nó bheadh an-deis acu iad a dhíol ar líne ach monuar níl a leithéid ann.

I think were missing a key point here, the Harry Potter books are one of the most widely publicised books of recent time, certainly the most famous childrens books. Every time theres a new book, theres huge world wide publicity and anticipation. Theres news reports from the books shops queues for crying out load!! Children in the Gaeltacht are obviously going to be aware of who Harry Potter is, the books have inspireed a generation of english speakers, they should have the chance to do the same for Iish speakers.

The problem is that to translate the book properly takes a year or two. By which time the children have read the english book.

What we need is a series of books which are only available in Irish, and are marketed as successfully.

That's true, Aonghus, but when you think about it these books have become something of a classic, so it's highly likely that future youngsters will want to read these books as well. Why not read them in Irish, then?

By the time the very latest Potter installment is translated, people who are currently youngsters will have read it in English... but there's no reason their younger siblings shouldn't benefit from having it available in Irish.

eh, they were written in english, they're popular in english, the big movies are in english - and the children in the gaeltacht are all fluent in english, so they'll probably opt for that even with an irish version available.

i do agree, however, that there needs to be something equally successful - in both appeal and marketing - in Irish only. the problem with that is

a) predicting what will be that popular beforehand, and
b) convincing companies to pour that kind of money into advertising to such a niche market.

how can they expect to manufacture and market toys to a series that will only appeal to less than 50000 readers? what of the discussion of the lack of feature length, high quality films entirely as gaeilge? movie series on the HP scale would not be feasible either.

it's all about the $$$ (or the €€€ as the case may be)

(PS those stars are supposed to be euro signs until i commit the post. sorry)

(Message edited by antaine on September 05, 2007)

Not to be snarky, Antaine, but good luck with publishing something in Irish exclusively that has a snowball's chance of being as appealing. Even if we could find such a gem, you can bet your next year's salary that it would be pounced on by the English press before you could snap your fingers, and then we'd be right back to square one, as always.

Better to piggyback off of something that's proven to be universally appealing to kids, translate that into Irish, and let future generations discover it afresh, for themselves.

I read The Lord of the Rings in its entirety at least five times before it was turned into a computer-generated movie.

Which brings up a fresh question... have Tolkien's works been translated into Irish? I seriously don't know!

Can anybody advise?

(Message edited by domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh on September 06, 2007)

There was some talk of a translation of the Hobbit, which was due out at the end of this year, but I don't think it ever happened.

http://www.evertype.com/gram/hobad.html

Personally I would prefer to see more resources being put into the work being done by people like Colmán Ó Raghallaigh

http://www.leabhar.com/ (Seems to be down at the moment)

Well, Domhnall, that's precisely my point, but Irish will always have the difficulty that no matter what you produce - original or remake - it will always make far, far more money in english than Irish, and all the Irish speakers are also fluent in English.

Harry Potter gets translated in to French and is monetarily worth doing because you've got all these French kids who either don't speak english, or are so much more proficient in French that they prefer to read it in their own language.

The Irish kids all speak english, so they don't mind, and the publishing/marketing companies only see it worth their while to pick up the stuff if it's in english.

aside from that the kids will still prefer the harry potters in english even if they're all available in Irish before they begin the series.

The only way another model would work is if an author committed to the language produces something of equal caliber, refuses to allow rights for translation, finds a publisher who also refuses to allow rights or do translation and is willing to do the kind of marketing campaign you see with HP. The campaign would only need to be done in the gaeltacht, and, to a lesser degree, the rest of Ireland. Given the smaller area (than globally, that is) such a campaign is feasible, although high quality toys and movies would still pose a problem. Not to mention that both the author and the publisher have to be alright with the idea of making 1/100 the money and recognition than they *could* if it were translated (or written) in english.

I feel that trying to translate the harry potters and other popular things sends the wrong message. It says that Irish doesn't have anything fresh, anything of her own. That the best way to sell books in Irish is to translate popular english books - and that the way to get native Irish speaking kids to read is to present them other nations' literature in their own language.

It feeds the idea that Irish is a lesser or less capable language, when in reality it is just a less marketable language. The difference between potential money made and worthiness is lost on many people.

But not on Colmán, who does in fact refuse permission for translation of his works.

The graphic novels produced by Cló Mhaigh Eo are high quality, based on Irish themes.

http://www.leabhar.com/comics.htm

And they sell well, given the small market.

I half heard a discussion yesterday on RnaG about marketing Irish books; there are efforts going on, but they are not enough. This is where the money should be going, since we do have some of the books, and if the market was proven for them, other books would follow.

This is last years campaign:

http://www.leabharpower.com/

Obviously in an ideal world, Irish speakers would be reading books i nGaeilge by Irish authors, however we dont live in an ideal world- táimid inár gcónaí in Éire...... I think the main aim of those interested in promoting Irish should be to get people to read Irish books, if the books which Irish kids will be interested in reading were originally in English I think thats an acceptable sacrifice. I really do believe the powers that be missed a trick in only translating one of the HP books(although i didnt know it took so long, grmma Aonghus) Maybe its not too late?

This wasnt in response to any1 in particular, just general observation

Neddam,

my experience is that my children will not read books in Irish that are available in English (or German for that matter). Full Stop.

Therefore it is wasted money.

They will read, and enjoy, well written books which are in Irish.

Therefore that is where the resources should go.

There are plenty of authors, and good books. But they are not in the bookshops, because the marketing and distribution agencies are inept, and the publishers are already living from hand to mouth as it is.

Cló Maigh Eo have sold upwards of 5000 copies of their graphic novels, so the market is there.

I should add that neither would I, except out of a sense of duty.

Why should I read a second hand version of the story, however accomplished (and the translation of Harry Potter and Artemis Fowl are excellent) when I can read the original?

Why should I read a second hand version of the story, however accomplished (and the translation of Harry Potter and Artemis Fowl are excellent) when I can read the original?

Perhaps it's because I'm approaching this purely from the standpoint of a student that I would prefer to have the opportunity to read these and other works in Irish.

One powerfully effective way to improve language skills, at least in my experience, is to read a work in English and then in the target language. (I've seen this referred to as "parallel text"; literally the English is on the left and the target-language translation is on the right.)

http://www.amazon.com/Short-Stories-Spanish-Penguin-Parallel/dp/0140265414

I wonder if such resources exist for Irish?

I joined these guys
http://www.irishtextssociety.org/

much of what they offer is in parallel. Unfortunately, the reprints of the old stuff is unaltered, so it appears in the pre-spelling-reform spellings. This causes me to struggle quite a bit as I have to frequently stop to look things up (which are now spelled completely differently than in my dictionaries). I bought Dineen's FGB to remedy that, but even so it is exceedingly difficult.

But I digress, check out their list of offerings.

As much as I would love to believe that Irish speaking children would rather read things in Irish, the facts just don't point to such a desirable conclusion. So I think Aonghus's experiences ring true for most children and people in general and that more needs to be done to provide literature i nGaeilge that isn't available i mBearla. But like Antaine says its really all about money, sad but so true.

Beir bua agus beannacht

A few books have been translated, notably An tOileánach, an Béal Bocht etc.

There are also several volumes of poetry with English/Irish side by side.

I don't know of any short stories.

Weren't a few short stories of Máirtín Ó Cadhain's translated once? I seem to remember seeing a collection - titled "The Road to Bright City", maybe? - in the library, though I never read it.

Is fíor dhuit:
Dhá Scéal
Máirtín Ó Cadhain
Leagan Béarla: Louis de Paor, Mike McCormack, Lochlainn Ó Tuairisg
Arlen House €20
An dá sceal atá á bhfoilsiú anseo i bhfoirm dhátheangach don chéad uair. Tá siad ar fáil cheana in Cois Caoláire.
Guth sainiúil an Chadhnaigh.
Two short stories with unmistakable traces of Ó Cadhain’s signature in style, form and content.

Agus ceann eile atá agam:

Misiún ar Muir ~ Sea Mission le Dara Ó Conaola
ISBN 0-9538673-2-3

Úrscéilín aisteach, mar is iondúil ón gConaolach. A strange little tale by a native speaker, with a translation by the poet Gabriel Rosenstock on facing pages.

I think I have a dual-language book of fairy tales by Mícheál Mac Liammóir, but I'm not sure where it went just now.

http://www.obrien.ie/book316.cfm

Faery Nights Oícheanta Sí
by Mícheál Mac Liammóir

"Weren't a few short stories of Máirtín Ó Cadhain's translated once? I seem to remember seeing a collection - titled "The Road to Bright City", maybe? - in the library, though I never read it."

Fíor dhuit, a abigail, Eoghan Ó Tuairisc a chur béarla air