Please can someone help me I am setting up a printing company called Graificí and need to be sure of the correct way to pronounce it.

Many thanks for any help.

Russell.

It is right spelling, but is it right Irish?

Grafaíocht is another for graphics.

sea, is nós dom graific a rá cé gur Graificí is mó atá sa chúrsaíocht ar chúis éigin .i. graific ar aon dul agus fisic.

A russell, nach gcloífeá le teanga a bhfuil tuiscint agat air?

Fearn ná bí tusa ag gearán agus mo dhuine agus é ag úsáid na teanga.. Is fearr ainm atá sa Ghaeilge ná ainm sa diabhal teanga eile sin...

Russell a chara,

Please see the below link - which includes uses of the word in various contexts.

http://www.focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=Graphics

If you need any more help just holla..

Maith thú!

I am very sorry but I do not understand any more than very basic Irish.

"Fearn ná bí tusa ag gearán agus mo dhuine agus é ag úsáid na teanga.. Is fearr ainm atá sa Ghaeilge ná ainm sa diabhal teanga eile sin... "

Diabhal gearáin ann, a dhomhnaillín!

Ó thaobh mo dhuine, ba dhona liom duine a ainmeodh gnóthas in teanga nach dtuigeann sé. Ní chreidim sa ligean air!

Mé fiche bliain d'aois na laethanta seo - ní domhnaillín mise a thuilleadh ;)

Russell, if you can't find the exact translation in the link i have in my above post then leave a message here and we'll help you.

We can't tell you if Graificí is right until we know what word you want translated Graphic/Graphics/Design Graphics etc....

I am almost sure that Graificí is the correct word as it means graphics and i want to use it as a trading name for the graphics divison of my company.

What i want to know is how to pronounce it correctly, can someone write down the phonectic way to say this word.

Many thanks

Russell.

The thing is that "graificí" is the plural form - it quite literally means "more than one graphic."

For naming a department, you'd want the singular form: "graific". (This is similar to the way other seemingly plural disciplines are handled in Irish: physics, robotics, mathematics - all are singular.)

It's pronounced more or less the same as English "graphic." There are some fine differences between the consonants, but I'll leave the explaining of that to others who do it better...

Abigail

I think Russell said it was a compny name he was establishing. Graificí would be is pronounced, more or less, as graphic-EE

Tá súil agam go bhfuil an focal ceart ag mo dhuine:

http://www.focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=graphics

"It's pronounced more or less the same as English "graphic." "

If that is the case, why dont we kill Irish, and make them into the saem two languages?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/graphic

It is a greek loanword. Why shouldn't it sound the same in Irish, as in English, as in German, as in....

[gɹæfɪk] vs. [ɡɾ̥ɑɸɪc]

One little vowel the same. Funny how people can be so anal in one area, then so laissez faire elsewhere. Then again how people sound is a class marker, so we know why pronouncing Irish right is a 'social sin'

"why dont we kill Irish, and make them into the saem two languages?"

Nó english a killáil agus bheadh the saem dhá theanga agat? ;-)

Cheap mé go raibh tú ar tí English a labhairt ansin a fhirn.
Ní shílim go bhfuil an teanga sin ar do thoil

Muna bhfuil sé ar mo thoil agam bíonn sé i mbarr mo theanga ar tí léimt thar béal

Fearn,
ha ha! Bíonn mé ag maradh (killing) gach teanga a labhairt mé! Sílim go bhfuil cúpla fuaimniú agam i mBéarla mícheart idir an chaighdeán agus mé féin...ach níl aon fadhb agam le Gaeilc...

Á! tusa an chéad dhúnmharfóir sraithe teanga a chasadh orm riamh ;-)

An bhfuil an FBI ar do thóir?

Sea, is mise 'bin laden na dteanga'...

Léamh mé an sniodh aríst...agus a Abigail, ní rabh me ag tabairt fútsa ach a oiread!

quote:

[gɹæfɪk] vs. [ɡɾ̥ɑɸɪc]

One little vowel the same. Funny how people can be so anal in one area, then so laissez faire elsewhere. Then again how people sound is a class marker, so we know why pronouncing Irish right is a 'social sin'

Like I said, the consonants are different, but different in ways that require IPA or complicated verbal explanations of how to hold your mouth. Neither is particularly my cup of tea, so I'm usually willing to leave those to people who enjoy them.

Look, if someone's actually learning Irish I'll be happy to (try to) explain broad/slender distinction and whatever else they need. If all they want to do is pronounce one phrase, I'm generally not interested enough to provide more than a rough guide based on English phonetics - something that'll get them understood, even if not mistaken for a native speaker.


But pronouncing Irish right is a 'social sin'? Uh-oh... I'm in trouble now.
I'm coming to Ireland next month and so here I've been carefully polishing my slender consonants in anticipation. Quick, someone please tell me - which ones are the most important to ditch before I get there?

"Sea, is mise 'bin laden na dteanga'..."

Ach go bhfuil osama níos greannmhaire ;-) , agus leomhaim a rá, níos ionraice ;-)

vit vit! na you'll be OK. The resolve of the native has been broken by centuries of marginalization -they will accept anything. If they were saying some of the people in my house in GlenFin had good Irish... then they should be over the moon with yours, so long as you can get it out as well as you write

Níl mé ionraic? Bíonn osama níos ionraice ná mé?!

Ach an rud is cruaidh -níl mé greanmhar! bú hú!

"Mé fiche bliain d'aois na laethanta seo - ní domhnaillín mise a thuilleadh ;) "

Fiche blian ag fás, muise.
Ach sílim go mbeidh tú riamh ina domhnaillín ag do mham. Ach bíonn brí níos leithne ag "-ín" nó an mbíonn cailín ina "cal" i ndiaidh sroiscint a fiche blian dí, nó an raispín tusa?

Russell,

If you wish to be gramatically correct go with Abigail's suggestion of " Graific "

It'd be pronounced the exact same as the english "Graphic"


Fearn,

Is dóigh go bhfuil an ceart a'at ansin mar gheall ar mham s'agamsa!
Ní fheicim raisp(ín) im fhoclóir??

"It'd be pronounced the exact same as the english "Graphic" "

Seafóid - níl an fhuaim 'retroflex r' i nGaeilg nuair a bhíonns sí ceart.

Ni maith liom éist do Ghaeilg...

abair liom, agus na habair dom níos mó -conas atá tú abalta rá 'is poblachtach mé' ach úsáideann tú fuaimneanna na Béarla led Ghaeilg?

Ceist agam ort, a Bhirn shaoithínigh. Dá mb'éigean duitse foghraíocht an fhocail seo a mhíniú - do Bhéarladóir aonteangach nach raibh fios an IPA aige - cén chaoi a thabharfása faoi?

Tabhair sampla dúinn, maith an fear!

Faigh aon scrúdaithe na gcanúintí (scríobhtha le CELT DIAS). Amharc istigh. Bíonn aistriúcháin le áiteanna na teanga (tongue). Gach fuaim. Ansin, úsáideann na leabhair córas simpleach, mar shampla, bíonn an siobal le 'velarised dental l' [l̪ˠ] i nIPA ach i gcóras na leabhar bíonn sí /L'/, so, níl aon deacair féachaint na nascanna idir sin agus na l-anna eile.

You see, my problem is not that people cannot pronounce it right. I don't care how they pronounce it. My problem is that they BLANK REFUSE to acknowledge that Irish is pronounced differently to English. Period. I know that such people don't believe a broad and slender system exists, nor do they think such a thing would be possible in any language. Period.

Believe me, when my Irish is better, I will point out how their Irish is nothing better than Béarlachas, and then they will refuse to believe that Irish has a different style of putting things than Irish. Because they know everything, because they were BORN IN IRELAND, so they are NATIVE SPEAKERS. Ya right.

And for people who purport to speak Irish as a way of reversing the anglicization of Ireland to be so blind is deliciously ironic to see, and shows another problem with the 'revival' -the endless loop of self aggrandizement where some minority language that some of ones ancestors spoke has been co-opted for all sorts of bullshit -like 'nationalism' or 'culture' or 'identity' when they have NOTHING to do with the language at all

a dhomhnaill,

Raispín= Duine atá ar bharr na gaoithe, "A scapegrace"

Tá go maith, ach níl tú ag tabhairt freagra ar mo cheist. Dá mb'éigean dhuit cur síos gairid a thabhairt ar fhoghraíocht focail áirithe trí mheán an Bhéarla, i muinín ghnáthtéarmaíocht an Bhéarla, cén chaoi a ndéanfá é?

Cén fhuaimníocht nuachtáin a thabharfá ar "graific" seachas "graff-ik"? Agus cén difear idir é sin agus a rá gur cosúil é agus an focal Béarla "graphic", rud a fhoghraítear mar "graff-ik" freisin?

Is cinnte go bhfuil difríochtaí ann, agus níl aon duine anseo á shéanadh (fad agus is eol dom). Ach an féidir na difríochtaí sin a chur in iúl laistigh de chóras fuaimníochta nuachtáin? Ní dóigh liom gur féidir.

oh really? all i did was call the sacred beliefs of gaelgeoirs as the bullshit it is.

(Message edited by bearn on August 17, 2007)

Abigail,
I've mapped out, as I've said before, how to go from standard english pronunciation to Irish using native english sounds plus a series of modifications. (I even have sound files and tongue position images). There is only a limited set of sounds the mouth can make, and transformations make it easy to go between the langugaes, even as different as they are. You then code them with a symbol and that lets you talk about it and compare it to IPA.

Knowing the sounds then lets you see how the spelling system has historically created.

But...i know it would not be read if I posted it or put it up on net, so why bother?

PS -after what I witnessed in the Irish college where grammar was been suspended in favor of English, something far more fundamental than sounds, you'll excuse my skepticism that people even want to pronounce remotly correctly if they wont even accomodate urú and seimhiú...

Sorry, I'm afraid you've lost me. Which sacred beliefs were those you were knocking down?

That there is no broad/slender distinction?
That Irish is not phonetically or idiomatically different from English?
That speaking Irish is vital for reasons of national culture or identity?

The only one of those I could even imagine approaching the level of a "sacred belief" would be the last one - and you didn't say a thing about that belief on its own merits, only call into question how serious the people who hold it really are about it.

quote:

Abigail,
I've mapped out, as I've said before, how to go from standard english pronunciation to Irish using native english sounds plus a series of modifications. (I even have sound files and tongue position images). There is only a limited set of sounds the mouth can make, and transformations make it easy to go between the langugaes, even as different as they are. You then code them with a symbol and that lets you talk about it and compare it to IPA.

I know you have (and I'd read it if you posted it! It sounds nice.) But just like IPA, that's a whole lot of overhead for somebody who isn't learning the language, who only wants to know how to pronounce one single word. If you demand that they go study all these tongue pictures first, most of them are likely not to bother.

That's where English-based newspaper phonetics come in handy, IMO. They won't convey true Irish pronunciation - and aren't meant to - but they'll get you close enough to be understood. It's hard to do better than that without investing in learning some sort of phonetic system (yours, or IPA or whatever) which is more trouble than I suspect most casual translation-requestors are willing to go to.

Well said, Abigail. This is exactly what I have been complaining about for years!

If someone is making a "drive by" attempt at learning the language, the LAST thing we need to do is scare them off by inundating them with IPA and tongue pictures. Give them a rough idea using sounds/movements that are already familiar to them.

The best analogy that I can think of is music...

There's a reason most music students start off with Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star. It's a fairly basic song, doesn't require any overly complex manipulation of the instrument and it is, for the most part, a universally known tune.

Can you imagine how many violinists we would have in this world if we started everyone off with Tshastikovich?? Not many!!

The same approach should be taken by all of us on this forum with regard to the initial "look" at Irish by newcomers. Give them an honest, if not exact, response to their question with the caveat that it is a general answer. If the interest is then stimulated, and they become a more frequent contributor/participant... THEN we should consider them "fair game" for the more complex nuances of Irish pronunciation.

This langauge is intimidating enough as it is. We, as a group of self-professed afficianados of the language, need not add to that intimidation with our academic "chest thumping."

Our goal should be recruitment, encouragement and education....in that order! I want newcomers to participate, I want them eager to participate and I want them to learn and grow as they participate. We will lose them at step 1 if we beat them over the head with IPA, dental fricative naso-palatal phonations, bi-labial aspirates and tongue pictures!!!

Anyway....that's my 2 pingins worth.

I agree with your position Abigail, but its people in Ireland that I was talking about, not the hard working people from American and Europe and elsewhere that frequent this place. I dont expect people to start at a complex level at all -i just think somepeople dont believe in a lot of the features in Irish -I actually believe that. The Irish course proved to me a lot of people dont believe in Irish grammar when it differs from English too much either.

Like James points out, newcomers should not be frightened off by over zealous crankery on one particular feature. They'll think people are mad.

Our goal should be recruitment, encouragement and education....in that order!

Well said, James...

quote:

its people in Ireland that I was talking about, not the hard working people from American and Europe and elsewhere that frequent this place.

Then why do you subject us here to your frequent, misspelt and usually incomprehensible rants on the subject?

As far as I know, I am the only person who could be meant by them, and I share none of the sacred beliefs you impute to me.

Most participants, and I suspect most readers here are interested in Irish for the love of it; but many have only the time and resources for a brief flirtation.

How do your posts help them?

how is that directed at you? As for misspelt, I have a spell checker in my browser, so they are no longer incorrect. I was talking about the general Irish language learning community in Ireland which I came into contact a few weeks ago with. I have met these people, and they do exist. Most Irish language learners in Ireland do not know in what way, nor care that Irish is different than English.

"Most participants, and I suspect most readers here are interested in Irish for the love of it; but many have only the time and resources for a brief flirtation."

Again, I was talking about Irish people -not people flirting with it, but the people who go to courses and purport to speak it. They were the ones the rant was directed at. I mean, how could someone just looking be expected to know (or care) about particularities of the language. I don't know why these people get brought into it -I suspect it is a shield to hide behind.

In another thread I recounted how a) language teachers dropped urú and relative sentences so the learners in the 'top level' could understand them and b) when I asked them about it, they pointed out that the participants pay the money, so the Irish should be tailored to their expectations.

I'd love to know what this has to do with people starting out who come here for instruction

You rant here.

I am the most prominent person from Ireland here, who have spoken Irish all my life, and therefore by one definition, not agreed by everyone, am a native speaker.

If you are not talking at me, what exactly is the point of your posts. Whom do they help?

You frequently interrupt simple requests for help with them, confusing the person asking.

Why would I be talking about you? I have explained it is not about people here

That was after I raised the question. The point I am trying to make is that this is not really the place for those kind of rants, especially not in the middle of a thread where an absolute beginner has asked a simple question.

By all means, start a rant thread, and clarify who you are addressing!

But personally I think (hope) your experience of teachers twisting the language was the exception rather than the rule.