mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2007 (July-August) » Archive through August 30, 2007 » Comment on an Irish Course « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 204
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 10:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Having completed a course in the Donegal Gaeltacht, I thought I'd give rundown of a few of my observations.

Teaching
Not enough classes and the breaks were way too long. Some coffee breaks were over 30 mins. Some days all that was done was about 2 hrs

Teachers molded their Irish to the expectations of the 'fluent' learners, such that mutations and clauses were dropped to the degree that they could. This did not impress me.


Planning/Structure
When we 'trained' for singing, no mini bus was provided for to bring us to the hall a number of miles away. Stuff ended up been a bit anti-climactic. Still, dry-humour and the ability to laugh at oneself came to the rescue on more than one occasion

Why has the Irish movement not bought property in the past and have better facilities? Why is it all fragmented? It is like on every level from national to school level teaching the same recursive pattern is played out. Languages need communities and communities need to be interwoven -this simple point is lost on the great luminaries who are giving us a sort of 'up in the air' approach to Irish revival, with nothing practical. The sad thing is that they don't even see how ineffective it is.


Students
Mostly decent people, but one issue that could have marred it -the number of teachers and their aura of superiority plus the incessant gossip and black back biting (which thankfully was snowed over by the good faith of the rest of the group). I mean one of the lads in the house I only found out later is a professor of molecular biology in a British Uni, but was so modest as I had to drag it out of him after someone else had told me of it. I though he was unemployed! Some teachers would not speak to you. Wankers.


Overall
The movement overall is lacking any sort of direction and is rather headless anyway. It panders to the flatteries of the students. It mixes up students of Irish with those wanting a la carte 'Irish culture', as if they are one and the same. Faculties, like classroom sizes are too small.

One final point, Gweedore is flanked by Glenveigh national park. In a rational programme, it would be a buffer between Gaoth Dobhair and the Galltacht, but I sensed no need to do that by the government who owns the park. After all, arent we all native speakers...

Bi-labial inside ®

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Abigail
Member
Username: Abigail

Post Number: 414
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 11:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Teachers molded their Irish to the expectations of the 'fluent' learners, such that mutations and clauses were dropped to the degree that they could. This did not impress me.


Sorry, I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly. Are you saying that they dropped mutations and clauses in their own speech, or that they assumed everyone understood all that and so didn't spend time teaching it?

If it's the latter: I don't know, but it's possible you may not have quite fit into any of the levels offered. I remember I had that problem at Notre Dame for a while - the classes I really needed to be in for speaking practice were still plugging away at the future tense of regular verbs, while the classes that could challenge me grammatically would have been way over my head in the level of speaking ability they assumed. It's an annoying situation all right.

Abigail

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1799
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 01:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Anuraidh ins an ollscoil s’againne, bhí múinteoir Gaeilge ann agus ba chainteoir dúchais as Corca Dhuibhne í. Agus nuair a bhíodh sí a’ labhairt linn sa rang agus go háiríd nuair a bhíodh sí a’ léamh téacs i nGaeilg, cha ndéanadh sí athrú toisigh ar bith. Char thuig mé ariamh cad chuighe. Ar shíl sí go rabh sin ródheacair do na mic léinn? An rabh eagla uirthi nach dtuigeamaist a rabh sí a ráidht? Dothuigthe ! Nuair a labhramsa féin Fraincis le foghlaimeoir, cha ndéanamsa meancógaí d’aon turas ionas gurbh fhearr a thuigfeadh sé mé!

Nuair a bhíodh an múinteoir sin a’ labhairt liom go nádúrtha ina canúint, cha bhíodh caill ar a cuid Gaeilge. Mínigh domh má thuig tú cúis an scéil...

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 3184
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 01:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Mínigh domh má thuig tú cúis an scéil...

Is trua nár chuir tú an cheist chéanna ar do dhuine ag an am sin.

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1800
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 02:43 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Shíl mé air, ach bhí eagla orm aiféaltas a chur uirthi. Ina theannta sin bhí sí iontach álainn, an dtuigeann tú... ;-)

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 601
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 02:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bearn,

Cad é wanker?

Is ait an mac an saol.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 205
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 04:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Éistigí: tar éis tamaill, thosaigh siad ag úsáid giota beag infhilleadh mar chuala siad mo labhairt. Níl rabh mé ach i rang a dó, ach bhí níos mó gramadach orm.

ie, they learned more inflexion and relative clauses from me than from the teachers. I recorded some of their speech on my phone, and yes, on replaying, they did not have any but a few and very rarely used flexions.

Yes, Abigail, that is what I meant. Sure, I put it to another teacher and he agreed; they are paying money so you are under obligation to be understood, he said. Creid é, nó ná creid é...

Pádraig,
it is a term, used like 'asshole' might be in the states.

Bi-labial inside ®

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member
Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 234
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 08:33 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

You assessment is fairly damning, Bearn. I hope this level of incompetence is not indicative of Irish teaching generally.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pádraig
Member
Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 602
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 09:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Dúirt Domhall:

"You assessment is fairly damning, Bearn. I hope this level of incompetence is not indicative of Irish teaching generally."

This raises a very important question especially for those who may be trying to scrape together the funds to spend a few weeks vacation at a school such as Oideas Gael in lieu of an annual holiday at Disney World.

I'd like to hear comments from natives who were educated in the state school system or those familiar with the gaeltacht, immersion programs.

Is ait an mac an saol.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 207
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 10:01 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Some teachers would not speak to you"

That is, the female professional day to day teachers from state schools. The male ones seemed dead on.

As for the teachers in the course, they were grand lads in and of themselves

Bi-labial inside ®

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 3188
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 10:05 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

That is, the female professional day to day teachers from state schools.

An é an chaoi gur chuir tú scanradh orthu?

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 208
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 11:05 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Would not speak to *one* not me in particular!

Bi-labial inside ®

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mickrua
Member
Username: Mickrua

Post Number: 112
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 02:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The best way to learn a language is to go amongst people who speak it naturally in their own dialects.The variation is not that much so you will get "the base/foundation " of the language.To speak Irish properly takes about 12 years living full-time with native speakers.There are very few Native speakers teaching Irish in the country and what we have ended up are "Academic Gaeilgeoirs".It isnot the fault of the teachers it is the fault of our "past/present Education Establishment" who do not "give a stuff" about the tongue.It is a "nice little earner" for "summer school teachers" and for the "Language cottage industry".
I should know because I am a native speaker and could "wipe the floor with most Irish language teachers" in the country today.
Ach is cuma anois mar tá sé ráite ag Eamon ó Cuiv nach bhfuil ag an nGaeilge ach glúin amháin eile agus is fíor é mar tá "mórán den Ghaeltacht " ina "breacGhaeltacht anois

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1809
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 05:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

To speak Irish properly takes about 12 years living full-time with native speakers.

Síleam féin go bhfuil tú giota beag pessimistic. Síleam gur féidir Gaeilg cheart a labhairt taobh amuigh do chupla bliain, ar aon nós. Braitheann sé ar a bhfuil ar intinn agat ’s tú a’ ráidht "to speak Irish properly".

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 221
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 06:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Still you got to 'scaoil amach do bhubailín' so to speak. The bean an tigh was heckling me to sing at the friday night céilí where locals and gaeligeoirí were to mix. I got up and did 'Óro sé do bheatha abaile' after telling the band to follow my lead (I know its like a film "Hey boys, you know this one?" sort of moments).

The only problem is that my brain had linked the air to 'What should we do with the drunken sailor?' and I started to sing in that air, so that the fiddler could not follow me in the chorus as I was singing idiosyncratically. The verse was grand, so I left the pub to sing the chorus....

Still it was better than the Wednesday night when after 15 drinks and someones rendition of 'Trasna na dTonnta' the disco track 'Rock the boat, don't rock the boat over' came into my mind and I started to do it on the floor. The school principle kept ribbing me about it all week, even telling people at the céilí I was to put on a song about waves...

Still the contextual nature of it all meant my passive comprehension is way above what it was.

don't leave me Jonathan!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Róman
Member
Username: Róman

Post Number: 999
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 09:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

I should know because I am a native speaker and could "wipe the floor with most Irish language teachers" in the country today.



This is exactly what I thought (or rather felt) when I heard two young teachers (!) from Cork's gaelscoileanna pronouncing "fliuch" as "flak"!!!

Gaelainn na Mumhan abú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1852
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 04:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Appalling...
But I'm not surprised at all...

Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Member
Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain

Post Number: 689
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 05:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sílim gur mhaith leat mo dhlúthdhiosca, a Bhirn:
http://www.scoilgaeilge.org/ceol/cleasamhran/cleas.htm
Go háirithe traic 4:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/neachtain

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member
Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 264
Registered: 09-2006


Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 05:43 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Báisín Fheidhlimí, Chili con Carne, Báisín Fheidhlimí 's Feighlimí ann....

Hilarious! :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 296
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 09:51 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

b'fhéidir go gceannóidh mé an dluthdíosca!

le díol

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Member
Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain

Post Number: 690
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 10:13 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bheinn buíoch díot.



©Daltaí na Gaeilge